Starting Problem Due To Worn Ignition Barrel.

[aladinsane1945-1979]

My aged Corolla whch incidentally is probably the best car I have ever owned in my long history of both owning cars and driving is giving me problems. Having diagnosed this problem I am seeking advice on how to obtain and fit a new ignition barrel. Does the ignition barrel replacement adopt the same key as for the original as I am thinking if it doesn't would that not mean a new ECU set up. Lost with this, please help as I can find little on this subject, it is not mentioned in the Haynes and it is becoming quite a concern as starting is so hitty missy now, with much fluffing and little cranking and I fear it breaking down.

[alan333]

If your key doesn't have a chip in it you can probably just fit a new one.

If your key has a chip in then there'll be a receiver somewhere around the barrel, and the key and receiver need to be programmed accordingly. Therefore if you fit a new barrel and key it'll need programmed. Alternatively you can probably order a new barrel to match your car chassis number, so the original key would still work in the lock, and since you hadn't changed the receiver it would still work too. This could be different if the receiver is part of the barrel tho.

Alternatively, I owned a Merc Sprinter van which had the chip from the old key sellotaped to the dash beside the barrel for a few weeks until I had the correct barrel and key fitted. Maybe this also works on Toyota's?

[oldcodger]

Can you define exactly what your Starting Problems is ?

The most common one is, you turn the key to starter position and sometimes the starter motor activates , sometimes not.

Is that your problem ?

If so , its probably the switch located on the very end of the ignition barrel, a common fault.

You might be able to get an replacement switch and fit it on, though not sure on your model,

On my old 2000 Avensis I simply wired in a big red switch as a fancy starter button on the lower part of the dash.

Save £s on a new barrel /switch

[aladinsane1945-1979]

If your key doesn't have a chip in it you can probably just fit a new one.

If your key has a chip in then there'll be a receiver somewhere around the barrel, and the key and receiver need to be programmed accordingly. Therefore if you fit a new barrel and key it'll need programmed. Alternatively you can probably order a new barrel to match your car chassis number, so the original key would still work in the lock, and since you hadn't changed the receiver it would still work too. This could be different if the receiver is part of the barrel tho.

Alternatively, I owned a Merc Sprinter van which had the chip from the old key sellotaped to the dash beside the barrel for a few weeks until I had the correct barrel and key fitted. Maybe this also works on Toyota's?

Thank you for your swift reply - All Toyota Corolla's as far as I know of a certain age had/have chips in the keys, this one certainly does, it opens and closes all doors and the boot and works the ignition. Cranking, firing ,in this case the only other way of starting this car would be the starter solenoid, not good and a bit of a nuisance. Physically the ignition barrel is worn, when I insert the key into the barrel it is a sloppy fit, and I suspect about to fail altogether. Its a Corolla 1.3 E11 fit for spare parts. Too much money to have ignition components re programmed, have to look at this afresh and work things out, simply cannot justify 250.00 - 300.00 quid on something that has now no monetary value at all.We buy any car.com value it at 50.00 , yeh and this will be one car they will not get, no way, no how, the cheek of these people.

[aladinsane1945-1979]

Can you define exactly what your Starting Problems is ?

The most common one is, you turn the key to starter position and sometimes the starter motor activates , sometimes not.

Is that your problem ?

If so , its probably the switch located on the very end of the ignition barrel, a common fault.

You might be able to get an replacement switch and fit it on, though not sure on your model,

On my old 2000 Avensis I simply wired in a big red switch as a fancy starter button on the lower part of the dash.

Save £s on a new barrel /switch

Thank you for your swift reply [please read other reply[replies] from me to others in conjunction with yours. Yes that what you mention is bang on the button, Its a Toyota Corolla 1.3 SE 1999 V reg motor E11 fit for spare parts. Toyota in their handbook mention keeping other keys and indeed anything else metal away from the ignition barrel and starter key, reason being I rather think is to try and prevent a magnetic field from developing, all this done, on starting the car it usually fluffs instead of starting but then sometimes starts afterwards having continued trying to start it, sometimes it needs a minute or two and then try again..sometimes it starts sometimes not.

[alan333]

All Toyota Corolla's as far as I know of a certain age had/have chips in the keys, this one certainly does, it opens and closes all doors and the boot and works the ignition. Cranking, firing ,in this case the only other way of starting this car would be the starter solenoid, not good and a bit of a nuisance. Physically the ignition barrel is worn, when I insert the key into the barrel it is a sloppy fit, and I suspect about to fail altogether.

I think we are talking about two different things here. The buttons on the key are for remote locking/unlocking and disabling the alarm (if it has one). Seperately some cars have a transponder chip in the key which the ignition switch/barrel detects when you insert it, and this disables the immobiliser and allows you to start it. Yours probaly has this chip since your manaul says you've to keep keys etc away from the ignition.

You still might be able to change the barrel, depending on where the receiver for the chip is. If it's like my Sprinter van you can tape the chip section from the old key up behindthe dash near the receiver and fool it into thinking you've inserted the correct key. Obviously it's not as secure tho, since you've effectively permanently installed the chip.

Also, on some cars you can remove the actual chip from your old key and fit it into a new key. Maybe this is possible on Toyota's?

Oldcodger also makes a good point that it could be the switch at the back, and soldering on a starter button might cure it. It could also be the section where the bottom of the barrel meets the switch. This is often an oval shape and can wear.

Have a look around the net and see what parts you can buy that match what you've got. If it was my car I wouldn't spend a fortune on it either but I'd find a way of fixing it.

[garethpaul]

Another cause of your issue could well be worn contacts inside the starter motor. These would exhibit the same fault as you describe.

One tell tale way to know if it is them is when it is playing up to carefully listen when you turn the key for a relay clicking. If you hear the click, this would suggest that the key part is working and energising the starter correctly, hence an issue with the starter.

Do a search on google for "worn toyota starter contacts". There's plenty of info about - even videos on youtube.

A loose/sloppy key should not cause the issue you are experiencing. If you are able to turn the key, then that should be enough to activate the switch behind the cylinder. The switch could be faulty, there are stories on here of that. However, I would expect it to exhibit other symptoms such as radio not coming on when at ACC and dash not lighting up when turned to ON.

It's quite easy to remove the ignition barrel on these cars. You have to remove the lower dash trim to expose the barrel from underneath. Insert the key and turn to ACC. You then depress a small button at the bottom of the ignition barrel housing and pull the cylinder out with the key. To replace, simply reinsert all the way, turn the key to "OFF" and remove the key. Doing this, you can inspect the back of the cylinder and switch for any signs of wear. Again, plenty of videos on youtube on how to do this.

[aladinsane1945-1979]

Another cause of your issue could well be worn contacts inside the starter motor. These would exhibit the same fault as you describe.

One tell tale way to know if it is them is when it is playing up to carefully listen when you turn the key for a relay clicking. If you hear the click, this would suggest that the key part is working and energising the starter correctly, hence an issue with the starter.

Do a search on google for "worn toyota starter contacts". There's plenty of info about - even videos on youtube.

A loose/sloppy key should not cause the issue you are experiencing. If you are able to turn the key, then that should be enough to activate the switch behind the cylinder. The switch could be faulty, there are stories on here of that. However, I would expect it to exhibit other symptoms such as radio not coming on when at ACC and dash not lighting up when turned to ON.

It's quite easy to remove the ignition barrel on these cars. You have to remove the lower dash trim to expose the barrel from underneath. Insert the key and turn to ACC. You then depress a small button at the bottom of the ignition barrel housing and pull the cylinder out with the key. To replace, simply reinsert all the way, turn the key to "OFF" and remove the key. Doing this, you can inspect the back of the cylinder and switch for any signs of wear. Again, plenty of videos on youtube on how to do this.

Thank you for this information which is more or less what I shared with my local garage however they were not convinced that this malady could be the starter motor, that is, could be, not is, however you have mentioned this as I did to them, and I think it is or could be a possibility, its a matter as you indicate of elimination.Not sure where I can get an ignition barrel for this car, they are available on the bay, however I did not see one for this registration.

[garethpaul]

If the key turns fine, albeit it is a loose fit, then I very much doubt the barrel is your problem.

My suspect, in order of likelihood would be:

1. Starter contacts - extremely likely due to the age of your car. Mine went a couple of years ago, and my car is two years older than yours. I guess most people would buy a new starter motor, but the contacts can be replaced diy using new ones from eBay for under £10 if you are handy.

2. Ignition switch (behind barrel) - unlikely but certainly possible. Can be easily diagnosed with a multimeter once the lower dash trim is removed - the haynes manual provides a pinout for the connector.

Good luck. Let us know what it turns out to be.

[aladinsane1945-1979]

If the key turns fine, albeit it is a loose fit, then I very much doubt the barrel is your problem.

My suspect, in order of likelihood would be:

1. Starter contacts - extremely likely due to the age of your car. Mine went a couple of years ago, and my car is two years older than yours. I guess most people would buy a new starter motor, but the contacts can be replaced diy using new ones from ebay for under £10 if you are handy.

2. Ignition switch (behind barrel) - unlikely but certainly possible. Can be easily diagnosed with a multimeter once the lower dash trim is removed - the haynes manual provides a pinout for the connector.

Good luck. Let us know what it turns out to be.

Thanks again for your interest and reply, to quote 'If you are handy', well yes I am, but, having finished working at 65 years old I really thought lying under cars was now a thing of the past, no professional training in mechanics electrics or anything else but yes I was/ am handy with motor cars that is older motor cars, many of what I owned are in museums now, points plugs and condensor cars that dropped to bits overnight compared with their modern day counterparts.

These ignition barrels will have shims, and so surely when they fail as with an ordinary locks the lock would not turn, and so this gives more credence to what you indicate, maybe a reconditioned or new starter motor is what is needed, really need to investigate. I briefly looked at several links today regarding the said problem however I have to admit it is still as clear as mud to me. are there links available to sites that show these remedies you mention?

[garethpaul]

Hi,

For the starter contacts - there doesn't appear to be a 'how to' on this forum, so I will have to provide a link from another website:

http://www.yotarepair.com/startercontacts.html

One point that is not mentioned is that when reinstalling the contacts, be careful to not over tighten them as they use plastic washers.

The contacts are available in various shapes, and you need to get the ones that match your existing. Either visually check what you have already, or supply part number on the starter to the seller. Plenty of sellers on eBay, but I believe I bought mine from "nipponnev".

For the ignition switch, there is a "how-to" on replacing on here:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/44971-starting-problems-on-avensis-solution/

It's for an Avensis, but the general method should be pretty similar.

However, the switch itself can be tested by disconnecting it's electrical plug and using a multimeter on the various pins of the switch connector whilst turning the key:

This is actually for a 91 MR2, and I don't have my Haynes manual here to verify if it is the same. However it gives you the idea.

I believe the the function of the terminals is actually marked on the switch (e.g. IG1, ACC), so it should be pretty straighforward to work out which is which.

[aladinsane1945-1979]

Job is done, no thanks to Toyota who gave me the wrong part then blamed me for not bringing the old part in, eh as I explained, have only one car and needed it to pick the part up, so had to go back twice, New ignition switch assembly fitted, this is how, once I got interested,diagnosed what was wrong with this car, bridging the starter solenoid the engine[the starter motor] turned everytime, so it was then, or had to be the ignition assembly, ,one can diagnose the problem and it costs nothing at all,and goes something like this, which shows how to diagnose this starting problem,One turns the key to start the car, the key travels much, much further than it should before cranking the engine, indeed I found [after reading about this problem in an old 'on the road' mag] that the key travels so far to the right that it is almost at the end of its travel before the engine fires, this can be discerned by turning the key, lightly guiding it round, you will note how far the key travels to the right, whereas once fixed the key feels tighter in the ignition and does not turn half as far before firing. Cost me 60.00 plus an hour and a quarter of my life.PS not an easy job,too much time spent on trying to relocate fiddly screws and I don't have the dexterity I had when I was younger. .