Toyota Service Plan And Main Dealer Servicing

[sammoj]

I have had my Yaris (63 reg) T4 Hybrid Navigation for 2 years now and today it went in for the 2 year service. The car has been in 4 times since purchase, 3 tyre changes (summer/winter/summer) and 1 for service at year 1. One each occasion I mentioned that after any significant rain or leaving the car for 2-3 days it is difficult to pull away as the brakes stick and then grind for a mile or so until freeing up.

The first thing that irritated me on arrival was being told my service plan, toyota branded and described as all inclusive except consumables, did not include the 20,000 mile or 2 year highly recommended brake fluid change. That was £39, ok if its an essential recommendation do it. An hour later the phone rings and I am told that the pollen filter needed changing and air con cleaning, this was another £39 and not included. So £78 lighter even though I have a service plan I collect my car to be told that the rear brakes were seized in the callipers and have been cleaned and freed off. Check the service report to see that they are recommending new brake pads and discs in the next 6-12 months at a cost of £300+ on a 2 year old car with 16k miles on it. Then I see another item, the emergency tyre repair kit, £47 as it expires in Jan 16, the car wont even be 3 years old.

As the car is a Hybrid and there are no other toyota franchises near me I have no choice but to use this branch and now feel pretty ripped off. Fuel economy has not been anywhere near what was advertised, maintenance was supposed to be cheaper on hybrids than conventional vehicles and resale value is very poor.

Does anyone else have brake problems after just 2 years to the point where they need replacing? I find this amazing and the dealers attitude was an embarrassed shrug of the shoulders.

My next car won't be another Toyota I am afraid, I am simply not impressed with the service quality.

Interested in others views / experiences....

J

[valmiki]

Have you read my post about brake calipers in this section of the forum? Your calipers should be covered under warranty (not 100% on this though)

[sammoj]

Thanks will have a look through, maybe this is a design fault

[FROSTYBALLS]

I have had my Yaris (63 reg) T4 Hybrid Navigation for 2 years now and today it went in for the 2 year service. The car has been in 4 times since purchase, 3 tyre changes (summer/winter/summer) and 1 for service at year 1. One each occasion I mentioned that after any significant rain or leaving the car for 2-3 days it is difficult to pull away as the brakes stick and then grind for a mile or so until freeing up.

The first thing that irritated me on arrival was being told my service plan, toyota branded and described as all inclusive except consumables, did not include the 20,000 mile or 2 year highly recommended brake fluid change. That was £39, ok if its an essential recommendation do it. An hour later the phone rings and I am told that the pollen filter needed changing and air con cleaning, this was another £39 and not included. So £78 lighter even though I have a service plan I collect my car to be told that the rear brakes were seized in the callipers and have been cleaned and freed off. Check the service report to see that they are recommending new brake pads and discs in the next 6-12 months at a cost of £300+ on a 2 year old car with 16k miles on it. Then I see another item, the emergency tyre repair kit, £47 as it expires in Jan 16, the car wont even be 3 years old.

As the car is a Hybrid and there are no other toyota franchises near me I have no choice but to use this branch and now feel pretty ripped off. Fuel economy has not been anywhere near what was advertised, maintenance was supposed to be cheaper on hybrids than conventional vehicles and resale value is very poor.

J

As with anything one should always check what one is buying to see whether it suits your needs.

Toyota's Fixed Price Servicing scheme clearly details what is included within a service, and what are addional elements (eg brake fluid change, air conditioning filter, etc) - https://www.toyota.co.uk/caring-for-your-toyota/service-and-maintenance/car-servicing.json

Brake pads and discs have been considered as consumables for a number of years - my neighbour's son had to have the front discs replaced on ther previous Polo replaced when it was 1 year old at 11,0000 miles.

As regards the tyre repair kit, some owners have purchased the following when the expiry date of their OE kit has been reached - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slime-1800330-Repair-Automobile-Dispensor/dp/B003QHY000/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1440444318&sr=8-3&keywords=tyre+repair+kit

[cmclean]

Upselling on the servicing cost is rife. In Edinburgh they add all the extras in to the initial price quoted in the hope you don't check out the official Toyota prices and query why they are asking over a £100 more. Looking at several vacancies for Service Receptionists in different franchises, they all seem to state that applicants "must be comfortable with upselling". It's the hard sell and meet your targets or its bye for now..

[sammoj]

I think I just generally feel uncomfortable with the dealer....I agree that the service guide makes it clear on toyota's website but I have never had separate charges for items such as brake fluid and pollen filters which were always included in the appropriate level service, usually every 2 or 3 years, on my other cars.

Even Jaguar had fixed priced servicing with only items such as brake pads, tyres etc being extra. I am not used to this 'optional but highly recommended approach'. I prefer transparency in garages but then we rarely seem to get that these days.

Maybe I will feel differently when it comes to the end of the 3 years PCP and still buy the car, the shame is its actually fun and very smooth to drive but i just feel there is something not quite right with the service or my perception of it delivering what I expected. That and I have an unused electric car charging point in the garage which keeps calling to me to go the whole hog and get electric next time.

J

[sammoj]

Oh and thanks for the tip on the sealant kit, this one would be a lot cheaper!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slime-10129-473ml-Tubeless-Sealant/dp/B00575EVTY/ref=pd_sim_263_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0VYRWT446DRETCX2EVDZ

No need to replace the air pump i would have thought.

J

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Rear brakes need doing, on such a low mileage hybrid?? What the.....

Most hybrids do 100k miles to a set of front pads, for the rears to need doing already there is either something wrong or they're a rip off merchant.

[johalareewi]

Rear brakes need doing, on such a low mileage hybrid?? What the.....

Regenerative braking is only with the front brakes. The rear brakes are used pretty much the same as on a non hybrid.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Rear brakes need doing, on such a low mileage hybrid?? What the.....

Regenerative braking is only with the front brakes. The rear brakes are used pretty much the same as on a non hybrid.

That's a new one on me.

Under regen braking only the front wheels slow the car down with the gearbox, the only time any of the friction brakes operate is when braking which exceeds the ability of regen braking is required, if the car is below 7mph or moving backwards.

[valmiki]

Does the Yaris have a hand rear-brake or pedal as in the Prius?

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Does the Yaris have a hand rear-brake or pedal as in the Prius?

Hand operated parking brake on the Yaris HSD.

[CPN]

Rear brakes need doing, on such a low mileage hybrid?? What the.....

Regenerative braking is only with the front brakes. The rear brakes are used pretty much the same as on a non hybrid.

Regenerative braking is just what it says... Reversing the functionality of the main traction electric motor to become a generator (thereby providing a charge also) such that it provides "reverse" torque to the wheels through the drive system and thus, slowing the car down. The friction brakes don't even come into play until a very low speed or you are calling for more brake force than the reverse torque can provide...

[CPN]

Personally, I think there may be a wider issue with the brakes on the Yaris Hybrid (and maybe other Hybrids) in that because any friction brake actuation is usually so light, allied with slow speed, such that the pads/discs don't seem to get a chance to "bed in" properly from new as they would on any normal car. This is particularly prevalent with the rear brakes as, because of the brake balance (controlled by the ECU), they very rarely get any major pressure put on them in normal (relaxed driving) use. On my Yaris Hybrid, that has resulted in light scoring on the surface of the discs as a result of the rust not getting cleaned off properly when the brakes are used because the pressure is too low during normal driving. I have raised this to the attention of my local dealer and they agree with my synopsis of what's happening. The cure they have suggested is to apply the handbrake lightly on occasion whilst in motion since it is a mechanical actuator directly on the pistons/pads. I have been doing this periodically and it is slowly getting better but it's still not as good as the front discs which have a nice even, none scored, flat shiny surface...

[MEP's Yaris GS]

I often reverse into my drive at speed due to the size of it, at night with the windows down you can actually hear the rear brakes clunking on, and I've (touch wood) never had any issues with front or rear brakes. Perhaps mine get a better clean because of my use pattern.

Perhaps the answer is to reverse in the open occasionally and brake, as in reverse reg braking isn't used and only the friction brakes, so they get a good hard application at least once a day rather than the soft use when driving normally.

[Sooty]

Another way of cleaning the discs would be to find a quiet area and at about 15 - 20 mph put the car into neutral and brake reasonably hard so that all pads are used against the discs.

I try to do this monthly and (touch wood) my rear discs have stayed reasonably clean and rust free.

[valmiki]

Another way of cleaning the discs would be to find a quiet area and at about 15 - 20 mph put the car into neutral and brake reasonably hard so that all pads are used against the discs.

I try to do this monthly and (touch wood) my rear discs have stayed reasonably clean and rust free.

Does this definitely work for the rear discs? I posed a similar question a while back but didn't get an answer. I can see this being more of a problem on the Prius, with it's foot-pedal rear brake which is either on or off, with the Auris I can use (gently) the handbrake during driving to clean the rust off.

[johalareewi]

Regenerative braking is only with the front brakes. The rear brakes are used pretty much the same as on a non hybrid.

That's a new one on me.

Under regen braking only the front wheels slow the car down with the gearbox, the only time any of the friction brakes operate is when braking which exceeds the ability of regen braking is required, if the car is below 7mph or moving backwards.

What I meant was that with a non hybrid, the front and back friction brakes are used all the time. With a hybrid, a lot of the front braking is done with the generator instead of friction braking. So the front brake pads will wear more slowly on a hybrid (they don't get as much use). Rear braking on a hybrid can't use the generator so there is only friction, hence the rear brake pads on a hybrid should wear at a similar rate to the rear brake pads on a non hybrid.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

With a hybrid, a lot of the front braking is done with the generator instead of friction braking. So the front brake pads will wear more slowly on a hybrid (they don't get as much use). Rear braking on a hybrid can't use the generator so there is only friction, hence the rear brake pads on a hybrid should wear at a similar rate to the rear brake pads on a non hybrid.

This is what we're saying though, they don't, as under regen braking its only the front wheels that are used to slow the car, no friction brakes (either front or rear) are used unless you've exhausted max regen force and need friction brakes (IE fully filled the charge section of the energy monitor) and when this happens the friction brakes work the same as on any other car, and will focus more braking on the front rather than the rear.

As such, just like a normal car the rear pads and disks on a Toyota Hybrid should still wear at a slower rate to those on the front.

[johalareewi]

When the hybrid braking system needs some rear wheel braking, it has to use the friction brakes.

For front wheel braking it can use friction, regen, and/or engine braking.

Are you saying that when using regen braking on the front, the hybrid doesn't use the friction brakes on the rear?

[MEP's Yaris GS]

Are you saying that when using regen braking on the front, the hybrid doesn't use the friction brakes on the rear?

Correct, only uses rear when below 7MPH, or when required braking force is more than that which regen braking can provide on its own, which is when front and rear friction brakes come into use along side the regen system.

[valmiki]

You learn something new every day - I thought rear brakes were for parking only (which is why I was querying how braking hard would clear rust off the rear discs)

[PeteB]

at least 2 other times when all four wheels get friction brakes working as they would on any other car with ABS and EBD:

• when the HV Battery is full to bursting (within the range allowed by Toyota, at least) - most people will hardly ever, if ever, experience this, but after going down a very long steep hill, like some found in Scotland for example, and the Battery maxes out, it reverts to normal braking which is a good time to select "B" mode on the transmission
  
• whilst braking, if a wheel goes over a severe bump and/or the ABS kicks in (after braking on a slimy manhole cover for example) regen braking is cancelled until the brakes are released and applied again

[johalareewi]

Are you saying that when using regen braking on the front, the hybrid doesn't use the friction brakes on the rear?

Correct, only uses rear when below 7MPH, or when required braking force is more than that which regen braking can provide on its own, which is when front and rear friction brakes come into use along side the regen system.

Very interesting...

I would have thought hybrids would be able to use friction on the rear when using regen on the front.

So if the VSC decides it needs some rear braking to keep the car on the road, it also has to use some friction on the front and reduce regen to compensate?

[johalareewi]

but after going down a very long steep hill, like some found in Scotland for example, and the battery maxes out, it reverts to normal braking which is a good time to select "B" mode on the transmission

The hybrid system will automatically engage B mode when the HV Battery is maxed out.