Changing From A Freelander

[dorsettoyota]

Hello there I have had a string of Freelanders and a lot of problems so my son who works in Africa has told me to buy a Toyota. He has a Landcruiser. I am looking around for a RAV4 and will probably get one from a man dealer with a good warranty. However, what are the common issues with RAV4s, what should I be looking for ? Any advice welcome.

Thanks

[Avalon]

It depends on the age and what generation/engine you're looking at. The 4.3 (2005 onward) had some known issues and if you look at the pinned post in the forum you'll see Toyota have been reasonably good with them, a few people have had a 5th gear issue on the 4.2 (2001-2005) but in general they're reasonably reliable. Your days or renewing the gaffer tape on the sunroof are now behind you ;)

[alan333]

The 2.2 diesel engine fitted to Toyota models (and Lexus I believe) has had lots of reports of cylinder head problems. Toyota extended the warranty to 7 years or 100 and something thousand miles, but IIRC only if it's got Toyota history all the way.

Have a browse around, but not necessarily just at Rav problems.

[ALake]

I was considering a Freelander 2 as my next car, maybe I should get some gaffer tape ready!

[Mike169]

Read this it's a bit long but it's a good report about 2.2 diesels approx 2006-2009.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/132178-charliefarlies-guide-to-the-toyota-2ad-diesel-engine-and-its-issues/

​

[firemac]

I was considering a Freelander 2 as my next car, maybe I should get some gaffer tape ready!

As your next car, no. As a garden shed, it's pretty good.

My daughter came home with one of those a while back and I questioned her sanity. It was a money pit, the biggest pile of excrement I've ever had the misfortune to have parked on my drive. One of the worst vehicles I've ever come across. MoTs required circa £1k per year to get the thing passed. In the end it was FWD only due to multiple (and horrendously expensive) failures of various bits of the 4WD system.

The reliability of modern LRs is epic - epically atrocious!!

Only to be considered if your hobby is using £50 notes to fire your BBQ.

[firemac]

The 2.2 diesel engine fitted to Toyota models (and Lexus I believe) has had lots of reports of cylinder head problems. Toyota extended the warranty to 7 years or 100 and something thousand miles, but IIRC only if it's got Toyota history all the way.

Have a browse around, but not necessarily just at Rav problems.

True. But I think you'll find that from about 2009, those problems have been resolved. Certainly there have been very few similar failures reported on the various RAV forums. Toyota seem to have resolved the original problem which they owned up to with the extended warranty.

[ALake]

I was considering a Freelander 2 as my next car, maybe I should get some gaffer tape ready!

As your next car, no. As a garden shed, it's pretty good.

My daughter came home with one of those a while back and I questioned her sanity. It was a money pit, the biggest pile of excrement I've ever had the misfortune to have parked on my drive. One of the worst vehicles I've ever come across. MoTs required circa £1k per year to get the thing passed. In the end it was FWD only due to multiple (and horrendously expensive) failures of various bits of the 4WD system.

The reliability of modern LRs is epic - epically atrocious!!

Only to be considered if your hobby is using £50 notes to fire your BBQ.

Hmm, and the diesel Rav4 is the epitome of reliability and quality! :D

I had a FL2 for a month as a courtesy car and I found it a lovely motor. The older first gen ones seem to be problematic though.

[dorsettoyota]

Thanks for your responses, if I did buy a RAV4 it would be no more than a couple of years old and with a long warranty.. Incidentally has anyone looked at Jeeps recently, especially the Renegade?

[Mike169]

Hi, i have a very late 4.3.5 model 2012 150 diesel, not the 180 and i think all the issuses with the car had been sorted in previous models. Apart from slightly disapointing fuel economy figures i find the car fautless and would recommend a diesel or petrol model to anybody, the petrol is better for short trips, the diesel if you do longer runs.....I also think the auto gearbox option is the model to go for.

Regards.

[firemac]

I was considering a Freelander 2 as my next car, maybe I should get some gaffer tape ready!

As your next car, no. As a garden shed, it's pretty good.

My daughter came home with one of those a while back and I questioned her sanity. It was a money pit, the biggest pile of excrement I've ever had the misfortune to have parked on my drive. One of the worst vehicles I've ever come across. MoTs required circa £1k per year to get the thing passed. In the end it was FWD only due to multiple (and horrendously expensive) failures of various bits of the 4WD system.

The reliability of modern LRs is epic - epically atrocious!!

Only to be considered if your hobby is using £50 notes to fire your BBQ.

Hmm, and the diesel Rav4 is the epitome of reliability and quality! :D

I had a FL2 for a month as a courtesy car and I found it a lovely motor. The older first gen ones seem to be problematic though.

We're on our 5th RAV - 2 diesels & 3 vvt-i's - (and second Land Cruiser) since 2002. I've had 4 years' servicing on the RAVs for the cost of one MoT on the poxy LR!

[dorsettoyota]

What experiences do people have of dealing with after sales support at Toyota dealers? My experience of LandRover is very good, they work very hard to do all the right things and will often make a contribution towards a repair even when a warranty has expired if you have service done by a dealer. (eg 30% on a new clutch on a 4 year old Freelander after the clutch started slipping at 40k miles) . My 4 year old car is currently on extended warranty and has been in for some work and I have been given a Jaguar XF as a courtesy car. Of course if they didn't go wrong so often they might not have to do all this.

LandRover have unlimited mileage extended warranty can you get the same from Toyota?

[Avalon]

Within the family we have owned 4 Rav's and still have 3.

Rav 1: 55 2.0 D4D XTR 5dr - In the family since new. It's on it's way to 100k, had full MDSH up till recently. Off the top of my head other than the normal consumables and service items it's had a few things done:

Full wiring loom replaced due to cable under seat having insufficient flex and snapping (warranty item)

5 new wheels/tyres in warranty (paint failure)

New clutch/DMF/SCV/pump out of warranty with a decent dealer contribution (it had FSH with them)

Central cat/link pipe replaced by an independent as the dealer price was crazy much like the Yaris.

Rav 2: 53 plate 2.0 D4D NRG 3dr - Ex Toyota UK staff car used for someone's wife if I recall.

Head unit replaced under warranty.

Wheels suffered paint failure as above but as it was out of main warranty the dealer wasn't interested and they were cheap enough to replace/refurb. I only parted with it because it was drinking me out of house and home at 100 miles a day commute.

The other two Rav's (a 4.3 and a current gen) have had nothing other than consumables and servicing at this stage.

Toyota in general aren't too bad when it comes to reliability and have taken a much more proactive stance in recent years on recalls and issues affecting safety than other providers, they also didn't need to be asked about contributions, they asked before telling us the fault. I'm not saying it won't break, but from our experience the TCO is lower and owning experience is a lot less agro than for example a Merc or VAG Group. I was on first name terms with the parts desk when I owned a Merc and although I like Skoda/VW they have considerably more significant design issues than i'm comfortable with.

When it comes to having work done i'll be honest you're going to be left feeling short changed after the XF, you're more likely to end up with an Aygo or Yaris than a Hilux for example. Personally that doesn't really bother me as i've owned a Yaris previously, they certainly aren't comparable to an XF though!

[ALake]

This is one of the reasons I'm looking at freelanders, I've found Toyota's post sales support completely underwhelming. Uninterested in helping with any problems. That could just be my local dealer (who doesn't seem to have the best reputation!) but that's what I have to work with.

[firemac]

What experiences do people have of dealing with after sales support at Toyota dealers? My experience of LandRover is very good, they work very hard to do all the right things and will often make a contribution towards a repair even when a warranty has expired if you have service done by a dealer. (eg 30% on a new clutch on a 4 year old Freelander after the clutch started slipping at 40k miles) . My 4 year old car is currently on extended warranty and has been in for some work and I have been given a Jaguar XF as a courtesy car. Of course if they didn't go wrong so often they might not have to do all this.

LandRover have unlimited mileage extended warranty can you get the same from Toyota?

"Of course if they didn't go wrong so often they might not have to do all this."

You answered your own question, really. LR revels in their amazing off-road ability but mostly this as much due to lots of electronics and software as it is to solid engineering. That mass of clever software makes them more susceptible to failure hence the unreliability.

As for their courtesy cars, when you've only got limited models and they're all so-called luxury cars then you haven'y got much choice - although I suppose they could use Defenders but that would probably leave customers with totally the wrong impression. And if they're perhaps already hacked off because their over-priced LR is in the shop yet again it won't help to p155 them off completely with a geriatric shed - more insult than courtesy, I suppose.

[TomdeGuerre]

You can go and buy a 10 year old Freelander and it will come with a BMW diesel engine. Toyota is just now in the process of phasing out its diesel engines and replacing them with - guess what - BMW diesels. So if you want to be ahead of Toyota's glacial evolutionary curve I guess that's the way to go. Also you'll find the Freelander with an up and over door while Toyota stubbornly stayed with the side opener until oh about 2012.

Personally I wouldn't buy either, they're both too small and don't give you enough room inside for the outside dimensions. The Ra4 cockpit is positively claustrophobic and neither have enough boot space to put anything worthwhile in. I'd be more tempted if I was buying budget to get a Nissan X-Trail or anything Isuzu or Mitsubishi.

[firemac]

You can go and buy a 10 year old Freelander and it will come with a BMW diesel engine. Toyota is just now in the process of phasing out its diesel engines and replacing them with - guess what - BMW diesels. So if you want to be ahead of Toyota's glacial evolutionary curve I guess that's the way to go. Also you'll find the Freelander with an up and over door while Toyota stubbornly stayed with the side opener until oh about 2012.

Personally I wouldn't buy either, they're both too small and don't give you enough room inside for the outside dimensions. The Ra4 cockpit is positively claustrophobic and neither have enough boot space to put anything worthwhile in. I'd be more tempted if I was buying budget to get a Nissan X-Trail or anything Isuzu or Mitsubishi.

The BMW engine in the FL was the result of BMW's ownership of Austin Rover in the 90's. It was used throughout the AR range but it wasn't the state of the art diesel that BMW was fitting in their own cars at that time. Similarly the diesel that Toyota is getting now isn't the engine that you'll get in any current BMW.

Personally I love BMWs as they are genuinely enjoyable to drive and I've had several as company cars but would I buy one myself? No, simply because their dealers are probably about the worst in the world having become victims of their sales success but not having invested enough in the network to keep pace.

Mitsubishi and Isuzu are good makes that I would consider. Nissan has destroyed their reputation following the merger with Renault that has resulted in too many Regie bits finding their way into Nissans thereby ruining their reliability. For that reason I wouldn't touch a Nissan with a barge-pole.

[dorsettoyota]

Just to set the record straight ( I have owned Freelander1s and 2s for 15 years) the diesel from Austin Rover went into the early Freelander 1s, when BMW took over they changed the engine and it became the TD4, the engine was the same as in the 3 series BMW. At the same time BMW reengineered a number of aspects of the FL1 and sorted out most of the original design faults. The TD4s were very good and I had two.

Then BMW sold LandRover and Jaguar to Ford. The Freelander 2 is basically a Ford underneath (it has lots of FoMoCo stickers and markings) and I believe that they underengineered the design such that although it is brilliant off road it suffers from the sorts of problems that you shouldn't get (rear diff failures, wheel bearings, transfer box etc) on a car sold as a tough vehicle. At the same time Ford virtually destroyed the Jaguar brand by producing the X-type that everyone knew was a Ford Mondeo. JaguarLandRover is in the process of rebuilding itself but is now aimed at the lucrative "Chelsea Tractor" market. ie they are ridiculously overpriced.

[firemac]

Just to set the record straight ( I have owned Freelander1s and 2s for 15 years) the diesel from Austin Rover went into the early Freelander 1s, when BMW took over they changed the engine and it became the TD4, the engine was the same as in the 3 series BMW. At the same time BMW reengineered a number of aspects of the FL1 and sorted out most of the original design faults. The TD4s were very good and I had two.

Then BMW sold LandRover and Jaguar to Ford. The Freelander 2 is basically a Ford underneath (it has lots of FoMoCo stickers and markings) and I believe that they underengineered the design such that although it is brilliant off road it suffers from the sorts of problems that you shouldn't get (rear diff failures, wheel bearings, transfer box etc) on a car sold as a tough vehicle. At the same time Ford virtually destroyed the Jaguar brand by producing the X-type that everyone knew was a Ford Mondeo. JaguarLandRover is in the process of rebuilding itself but is now aimed at the lucrative "Chelsea Tractor" market. ie they are ridiculously overpriced.

I have no doubt that the TD4 was basically the same engine structurally as that in the BMW but if I remember correctly the spec of the TD4 was nowhere near that of the 3-series, even allowing for the differing outputs required in a road car and an SUV. I also recall during the HMG/Honda/BMW bun-fight that resulted from Honda being snubbed in favour of BMW, reading several technical reports deriding the fact that whereas Honda had released their current powerplants (as in the Ballade, Concerto & Civic) for use by AR in their new ranges, BMW were accused of utilising their older engines for AR as a means of reducing capital commitments in the group as a whole and accelerating the pay-back from the AR take-over.

The current media rumours around the BMW/Toyota JV indicates that the same approach has been adopted by BMW.

[dorsettoyota]

I went into the Toyota garage and had a look at a RAV4, the sales guy was pretty useless as he said that there was a completely new model coming out in January but he didn't know anything about it at all but they had a some 2 wheel drive current models in. I asked about the current model and when he said that the service interval was only 10k miles I said "that's a bit low" his answer "the reasons that Toyotas are so reliable is that they get serviced so often so they don't go wrong. We have a very small service dept here whereas if you go to say a Peugeot garage (with 20k intervals) they have a bigger workshop" . I said that if they were in for servicing so often surely they need a bigger workshop? End of conversation.

Anyway RAV4 looks OK inside but I have 7 months LandRover warranty on my Freelander before decision time . Is the new model such a secret?

[philip42h]

Toyota GB have yet to announce details of the new model line-up so to that etent it is still a secret but there are various blogs and rumours abound.

There is to be a RAV4 hybrid - shown in New York and due to be released in December and in the UK from next year: http://blog.toyota.co.uk/rav4-hybrid-new-york. The blog also gives some indications as to the face-lift and interior changes but it seems largely the same as the existing model - same Shell anyway.

There's also a fairly strong rumour that Toyota are ceasing development of the existing 2.2 diesel engine and not make it Euro 6 compliant. So it appear that we may be limited to the 2.0 diesel in 2WD or the hybrid for AWD. As far as I am aware the petrol engines go on as before.

[firemac]

I went into the Toyota garage and had a look at a RAV4, the sales guy was pretty useless as he said that there was a completely new model coming out in January but he didn't know anything about it at all but they had a some 2 wheel drive current models in. I asked about the current model and when he said that the service interval was only 10k miles I said "that's a bit low" his answer "the reasons that Toyotas are so reliable is that they get serviced so often so they don't go wrong. We have a very small service dept here whereas if you go to say a Peugeot garage (with 20k intervals) they have a bigger workshop" . I said that if they were in for servicing so often surely they need a bigger workshop? End of conversation.

Anyway RAV4 looks OK inside but I have 7 months LandRover warranty on my Freelander before decision time . Is the new model such a secret?

[/quote

The new RAV hybrid is included as a news item in Toyota's current customer magazine received this week so, no, not a secret.

If I was to write off every vehicle make on the basis of an idiot salesman, it would be a long list and I'd be riding a bicycle! I've had 10 Toyotas since 2002, plus a few Saab and BMW company cars in the same period, and the Toyotas have been excellent. I've used dealers all over the UK and in Paris and with the exception of one service-only dealer, they have all been first-class.

You have to speak as you find. You are clearly happy with JLR stuff so, why not just stay with them?