Auris Touring Sport Hybride

[Ciprian Vlaicu]

Hi,

I have a Toyota Auris Touring Sport Hybrid from last year September 19.

The car has run 33000 km and I saw in the spring time at the Battery do not charge 100%. The same problem I saw in the summer time when the temperatures were between 18 - 25 degrades.

When I was for maintenance at 30000 km I have informed the Toyota service about this problem and they said at this is normal because in the spring was cold and the summer was hot. :)

I'm not sure if is this a problem, temperature because I have drive every day, without stop, 90 km and the information about the Battery charger that I see on the screen of the car is for around 90% charge.

Can help me somebody with some information?

Thank you!

[Wayne2015]

Hi and welcome

I always wondered when my Battery will be 100% charged and when it will be discharged before engine kicks in...

But never seen my 100% charged

Also, at one point pressed the EV button and moved in heavy traffic....monitored the Battery picture and when it reached about 1/5 ? (1/4?) the ECU decided that was enough and auto switched off the EV mode and switched on the engine

Sorry not answered the original post, but hope others will answer....

[Cyker]

The Battery will never charge to 100% from the petrol motor; The only way to 'force' it to is by e.g. a long downhill regen.

There are good reasons for this:

1) When the Battery is totally full, you get NO regen braking at all - All the braking is done by the tiny friction brakes and possibly the engine. (I think the HSDs automatically go into an un-labelled 'B' mode if they can't do regen braking)

2) Repeatedly charging a Battery up to 100% will reduce its life faster than going up to 80-90%, as does draining it totally to 0%. One of the super clever things about the HSD is battery management - It tries to keep the charge between 20% and 80% which gives it the best balance between usability and life.

This is why e.g. laptop batteries only last 2 or so years before they lose a lot of capacity, whereas we're seeing HSD batteries over 10 years that are still providing usefully usable range!

(I do the same thing with my laptop and have managed to keep this battery going for 5 years so far, although it has lost 1 of its original 6 hours of run time!)

[Wayne2015]

The battery will never charge to 100% from the petrol motor; The only way to 'force' it to is by e.g. a long downhill regen.

There are good reasons for this:

1) When the battery is totally full, you get NO regen braking at all - All the braking is done by the tiny friction brakes and possibly the engine. (I think the HSDs automatically go into an un-labelled 'B' mode if they can't do regen braking)

2) Repeatedly charging a battery up to 100% will reduce its life faster than going up to 80-90%, as does draining it totally to 0%. One of the super clever things about the HSD is battery management - It tries to keep the charge between 20% and 80% which gives it the best balance between usability and life.

This is why e.g. laptop batteries only last 2 or so years before they lose a lot of capacity, whereas we're seeing HSD batteries over 10 years that are still providing usefully usable range!

(I do the same thing with my laptop and have managed to keep this battery going for 5 years so far, although it has lost 1 of its original 6 hours of run time!)

Interesting ref (2)

This applies to all re-chargeables?

[YarisHybrid2016]

It depends on Battery chemistry, and load, but generally yes.

Most (all?) batteries have a minimum voltage they must not drop beyond, otherwise irreversible damage occurs to the cells (they break down chemically and this can't be fixed without replacing the cell).

The Battery chemistry matters. Li-Ion for example show a near constant voltage until the very end. If they start to drop, the cell can be damaged almost immediately. If it drops very much, that cell is damaged permanently.

In the case of NiMH (the HV Battery chemistry in our hybrids) the voltage drops with charge level slightly. This makes them easier to manage in terms of their charge state. They are also much more stable than any of the Lithium family, and can sustain being charged/discharged to a greater extent.

Lithium batteries are a bit weird, in that in normal use, regardless of charge state, they WILL lose approximately 20% of their capacity PER YEAR. I'm intrigued as to how this is handled in the PiP as I think this uses Li-Ion??? One way is to use a MUCH larger battery than required and design in the wastage.

A similar thing is done with the HV battery - it limits between 20% and 80%, and hovers somewhere around 60% whilst driving, meaning that there is excess capacity for braking, as well as having excess capacity allowing for natural degradation in battery capacity over time.

Li-Ion is very good at supplying very high currents in very short time periods, whereas NiMH is not so good for high current applications. This is also why Li-Ion can charge so quickly.

It is getting to be quite common to see Li-based batteries charging the first 50% or so in 30 minutes, and the other 50% over 3 hours.

Li-based batteries have an intriguing property in that they are "lifed" much more by charge/discharge cycles, whereas NiMH type batteries can last much longer as they are not so affected by actual usage so long as they are not allowed to "deep discharge" (or conversely, over-charge). This is where the 20%-80% limits come in.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

This is why e.g. laptop batteries only last 2 or so years before they lose a lot of capacity, whereas we're seeing HSD batteries over 10 years that are still providing usefully usable range!

Actually in the case of laptop batteries, in the main its actually heat damage / stress that kills them from what I've seen online.

Lithium batteries are a bit weird, in that in normal use, regardless of charge state, they WILL lose approximately 20% of their capacity PER YEAR.

Care to advise where you've heard this and back it up, as this it not what I've both read and experienced. Far from infact.

[Wayne2015]

really interesting stuff

so what happened to my old Battery when it died after car was sat in garage for 2 months

Instead of buying a new Battery, I charged and re-conditioned it with a CTEK charger over 48 hours, never missed a beat thereafter???