Petrol Or Diesel?

[Adam Zapple]

I'm interested to know what you guys drive and why. If you drive a petrol engine, what made you choose it over the diesel and vice versa?

My reason for wanting a petrol engine is quite simple - I want the smoothness and quietness that a petrol engine provides. I've been forced to drive diesel company cars for the past twenty years and although they do have their good points, I just find the diesel clatter to be tedious and tiring. I won't be driving anything like the miles I used to in my old job, so the inferior fuel economy hopefully won't be too much of a strain.

My late father had an petrol engined Avensis (I assume it's what is known as the Mk1) and it was whisper quiet and sewing machine smooth. The difference between his petrol Avensis and my diesel Vauxhall car was enormous. I have to admit my diesel had much more torque, especially in the mid range, but I did like the relaxing experience of the petrol Avensis.

[alan333]

Petrol if you're not doing lots of miles. Less things to go wrong.

[Heidfirst]

I went out to buy a s/h or ex-demo 1.8 Valvematic TR Tourer but got offered such a good deal on an ex-Toyota management 2.2 D4D Tourer that I couldn't turn it down.

If doing low mileage & intending to keep it for a long time go petrol - less to go wrong at potentially large cost (no DMF, DPF, turbo, intercooler etc.).

[Konrad C]

I have petrol because diesels have a lot of baggage like DPF,EGR and DMF.

What actual cars are you comparing?

For me. Recent diesels are more smoother than older cars in the past. I know petrols are naturally smoother and at low engine rpm quiet, but on the motorway, the diesels are longer geared. Petrols are shorter geared so rev higher at motorway speeds, and can be noisy.

The gearing is down to the engine torque. Diesel can have nearly double the torque at very low are rpm. Then add weight of the car and what it is designed to do. Also diesels have less revs to play with so the gearing helps with that. Also notice that more diesels have 6 speed gear boxes compared to 5 speed in petrols. This helps for more relaxed cruising.

The Mk3 petrol Avensis has 6 speed and the gearing suits the engine torque, whilst giving a much more relaxed cruising on the motorway.

Now the trend is to make smaller petrol engine with turbos. This means more torque and also better fuel consumption. I am not a fan of these engines because long term, the turbo is a weakness.

My Avensis 1.8 petrol Tourer is fine for me.

[Cyker]

Don't newer petrol cars all have EGRs and DMFs as well now tho'?

[Heidfirst]

EGR, yes. DMF I don't think so - diesels have them because of the torque.

[Cyker]

Well it's not just for the torque - My Mk1 D4D doesn't have a DMF for instance, just a heavier SMF. The single benefit of a DMF is that you can get away with a significantly lighter flywheel without compromising too much on damping. Presumably this would benefit more powerful petrol engines too so I'd be surprised if some of the bigger petrol engines hadn't started seeing them. (I don't know for sure tho' and it's unlikely I'll ever own a petrol engine of that sort of power )

[Heidfirst]

Most of the really powerful petrol engines use auto gearboxes.

[TomdeGuerre]

Another reason for Dual Mass Flywheels was to give a lighter clutch pedal - for women drivers and non-hetereosexual males

[adman]

I have a diesel Avensis. However given the recent news, I now feel very guilty every time I start it up. 29000 deaths / year is not something I want to be contributing to, so if given the choice, always pick petrol. Actually, your order of preference should be electric - hybrid - petrol - diesel. :)

[Heidfirst]

do you know how your electricity was generated in the first place? Good chance that it was largely by burning coal, oil or gas ....

plus overall electricity supply efficiency in the UK is ~35% (not including the energy taken to extract, transport & store fuel) ...

[Cyker]

Yeah, don't buy into that BS. You can't trust any thing that comes from an entity with an agenda.

If we believed everything they say, we'd all starve to death

@Heid: But they still have flywheels... or not...?

[Heidfirst]

from some quick Googling - yes, and no... or similar but different :P

& of course torque converter autos & Tiptronic/multitronic/DSG etc. type autos differ in their set ups :O

[Cyker]

Who knew this forum could be so educational

[avensisd4d786]

The mk1 avensis does have a dmf fitted from factory d4d model only. I am on the lookout for a 1.8 2006 2008 avensis manual let me know if you have one for sale.

[adman]

On 10/11/2015 at 2:57 PM, Heidfirst said:

do you know how your electricity was generated in the first place? Good chance that it was largely by burning coal, oil or gas ....

plus overall electricity supply efficiency in the UK is ~35% (not including the energy taken to extract, transport & store fuel) ...

Yes I do - its about 30% coal, 29% gas, 22% Nuclear and the remaining 19% a mix of renewables and foreign imports (largely nuclear from France). A diesel car by comparison is 100% diesel, a petrol car 100% petrol. That doesn't take into account the large amount of electricity required to make the diesel and petrol in the first place. So, straight off the bat, the electric drivetrain is better for the world and the people in it. When my current electricity contract runs out, I will switch to a 100% renewable contract, so that will be, er, 100% cleaner.

[FROSTYBALLS]

One's electricity company may source their energy from renewables, but the electricity you actually use (ie via the National Grid) is still made up from various methods of generation (fossil fuels, nuclear, renewables, etc). Unless one goes down the solar panel or wind turbine route, one's electricity will remain a mixture whoever one buys your energy from.

Petrol in the UK is up to 4.75% ethanol, with the exception of most super unleaded.

[Heidfirst]

Even renewable electricity has an environmental cost from production, installation & storage (where that exists). Making large batteries etc. for EVs uses a lot of rare earth metals so straight off the bat the electric drivetrain isn't better for the world.

& I can't (yet) get into a pure EV & drive 400 miles without having to stop & recharge several times so journey time for medium to long journeys is considerably longer. In a hybrid it would be mostly running on ICE.

It actually doesn't take a lot of electricity to refine petrol/gasoline as strangely enough most of the energy used is for heat & which comes from burning hydrocarbons ...

[adman]

31 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

Even renewable electricity has an environmental cost from production, installation & storage (where that exists). Making large batteries etc. for EVs uses a lot of rare earth metals so straight off the bat the electric drivetrain isn't better for the world.

It actually doesn't take a lot of electricity to refine petrol/gasoline as strangely enough most of the energy used is for heat & which comes from burning hydrocarbons ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4

It does take a lot of electricity! Watch this video.

[Heidfirst]

It takes a lot of electricity in total because we refine a lot of barrels/gallons/litres .... & we don't just get gasoline/diesel from the refining (e.g. Ineos Grangemouth refinery diesel/gasoline is ~46% of output).

If you read the comments alone you will see various people reckoning that he is out by at least a  factor of 10 & that the actual amount of electricity (but not total energy) used in refining is ~0.3kWh/gallon.

It's the usual lies, damn lies & statistics - you can make them say anything that you want. Things are not black & white but many shades of grey (possibly even 50 ) ...

[adman]

On 09/11/2015 at 8:12 PM, Cyker said:

Yeah, don't buy into that BS. You can't trust any thing that comes from an entity with an agenda.

If we believed everything they say, we'd all starve to death

@Heid: But they still have flywheels... or not...?

"Can't trust any thing that comes from an entity with an agenda".

Can't believe how stupid this sounds. Do you not think the oil companies have an agenda, or the diesel-engine manufacturers? No, they are just making things for fun and if anyone buys it it is a bonus.
Of course groups that are trying to help the environment (and the people in it) have an agenda - they are trying to a) Ensure the longevity of the global climate b) stop people dying from emissions. Mod edit - shouting removed.

If you think preventing deaths is not a worthy agenda, then I suggest you have some serious mental issues.

[TomdeGuerre]

I think you’re the one with serious mental issues. It took you about 6 months to digest what Cyker had to say and then come back with utterly boring predictable earth greener tree hugger gobspiel – and with shouty bit at the end.

Marks card: Must Try Harder>>>>> Do try to Keep Up.  

[Alfredo Garcia]

 

 

On 24/04/2016 at 0:37 PM, adman said:

Of course groups that are trying to help the environment (and the people in it) have an agenda - they are trying to a) Ensure the longevity of the global climate b) STOP PEOPLE DYING FROM EMMISSIONS. 

If you think preventing deaths is not a worthy agenda, then I suggest you have some serious mental issues.

Its always nice to join a forum and have a useful discussion regarding the topic of the forum. Nice to be accused of being mental because I wish to drive a diesel and being preached at because someone read the Sun and decided we are going to destroy the planet with fossil fuels. Whilst it is true that we are damaging the planet we are ultimately mortal, not gods. The planet heats up and cools down without any input from me. It does so now and did so long before I was born. It will continue to do so long after the last human has come and gone, just like it did before we arrived. If you are serious about saving lives perhaps you should follow the advice of of the Plusnet advert and go off grid (which means no broadband and no time to espouse your theories of life and death on this forum). Until then it is probably best to avoid accusing me of having serious mental issues when you know nothing about me or my circumstances. Despite the fact that I may well have serious mental health issues.

[FROSTYBALLS]

On 24/04/2016 at 0:37 PM, adman said:

"Can't trust any thing that comes from an entity with an agenda".

Can't believe how stupid this sounds. Do you not think the oil companies have an agenda, or the diesel-engine manufacturers? No, they are just making things for fun and if anyone buys it it is a bonus.
Of course groups that are trying to help the environment (and the people in it) have an agenda - they are trying to a) Ensure the longevity of the global climate b) stop people dying from emissions. Mod edit - shouting removed.

If you think preventing deaths is not a worthy agenda, then I suggest you have some serious mental issues.

Interesting that your profile shows you drive a diesel, which are proven to affect the health of people more than petrol vehicles due to their higher emissions of Nitrogen Oxides. Probably a case of practice what one preaches.

Topic locked before it gets further out of hand.