A Different Transmission?

[cuius]

Toyota hybrids are usually described as having an "e-CVT" - electronically-control continuously-variable transmission; however, the forthcoming RAV4 hybrid is shown on the Toyota Europe website as having a "6 speed sequential shift e-CVT". A road test report notes "That power flows through a planetary gear set CVT with six “speeds” in sport mode, and on to a second electric motor that drives the rear wheels when needed."

Is it a different type, or is this marketing men speak?

[timberwolf]

Try the blog in the link if you haven't already seen it, from what I can tell the new model simulates a "sequential" shift experience. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-rav4-hybrid-frankfurt

One other thing that caught my attention whilst skimming - Is there an older RAV4 with CVT which was available only in the UK?

[kithmo]

A 6-speed CVT is a contradiction in terms. A CVT is Constantly Variable, i.e. infinite ratios (speeds), which the hybrid system's planetary gear set emulates electronically by varying the speed of the electric motors.

[timberwolf]

A 6-speed CVT is a contradiction in terms. A CVT is Constantly Variable, i.e. infinite ratios (speeds), which the hybrid system's planetary gear set emulates electronically by varying the speed of the electric motors.

My 2nd generation hybrid effectively has "two" forward gears, 'D' and 'B', it is delivered by the continuously variable e-CVT by programming.

They way I read it, this is just more programming by Toyota to give the illusion of a 6-speed sequential shift.

[Heidfirst]

presumably similar to the Avensis CVT which simulates a 7-speed transmission. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-avensis-automatics-for-the-people

[timberwolf]

Different technologies, conventional mechanical CVT vs the Hybrid CVT, but in concept I think so.

A horrible idea in my opinion to simulate gear changes into a continuously variable transmission but I suspect I am not the target customer.

[PeteB]

...A horrible idea in my opinion to simulate gear changes into a continuously variable transmission ...

That's what I thought until I drove one:

My ex once had a 2nd generation Nissan Micra 1.0 with CVT - it had just 2 modes: D & Ds (for sport - I kid you not!).

It was great to drive and didn't creep - I used to pinch it for driving in London and leave the automatic Volvo I had at the time at home.

When the time came to replace it, the third gen Micra had an old fashioned 4 speed auto box, so we went for a test drive in a Honda Jazz CVT. It had a 7 speed stepped mode, accessed by a button on the steering wheel, and a rocker switch on each spoke with + & - to manually shift - until you touched one it operated like a 7 speed auto (the rocker switches were replaced on later models by paddles).

Now I thought it was a gimmick - why would they go to the expense of designed a CVT only to make it behave with the shortcomings of a conventional auto? Whilst I wouldn't have gone out of my way to get it, it was handy going up a steep hill to be able to lock in into a 'gear' that was low enough to maintain speed but not revving the nuts off the engine.

But had we bought one I'd have left it in CVT mode almost all other times.

[kithmo]

A 6-speed CVT is a contradiction in terms. A CVT is Constantly Variable, i.e. infinite ratios (speeds), which the hybrid system's planetary gear set emulates electronically by varying the speed of the electric motors.

My 2nd generation hybrid effectively has "two" forward gears, 'D' and 'B', it is delivered by the continuously variable e-CVT by programming.

They way I read it, this is just more programming by Toyota to give the illusion of a 6-speed sequential shift.

I guess they must program a hold on the electric motor speed to simulate staying in a gear ratio, allowing the ICE to rev up through the rpm range, then letting the electric motor move up (or down) to the next hold speed for the next gear and so on. Clever stuff, but pointless IMO as it's not letting the ICE run at optimum efficiency.

[PeteB]

I guess they must program a hold on the electric motor speed to simulate staying in a gear ratio...

I've often wondered about this - all the Lexus Hybrids except the CT seem to have this, along with a tiptronic type position on the gear selector and flappy paddles.

I've driven LS, RX and NX Hybrids - I believe the new RAV4 is an NX in Toyota clothing.

I've not been able to discover by searching or work out from driving if it somehow uses the Motor Generator to do this or actually has a secondary CVT box.

[timberwolf]

Does the new RAV4 use this technology?

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1319280362GS_450h_pack.pdf

The 2-stage gear reduction (or 2-speed automatic gearbox with hydraulics) was a bit of a surprise to me.

http://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/products/drivetrain/hybrid/

[YarisHybrid2016]

Why on earth would you want to take a smooth eCVT experience and change it to a simulated gear-fest?!

People really need to realize that gears are OLD! I'm never going back to a conventional auto! Hybrid or full EV all the way!

[Devon Aygo]

The car will drive just like a normal hybrid if left in auto mode however being a 4x4/SUV it is forseen that there may be occasions e.g off roading, towing etc that the ability to set/control gearing will be beneficial such as high engine speed/torque but low gearing for creeping over rougher terrain or holding a lower gear whilst climbing and towing.

[YarisHybrid2016]

Hmm... I thought that was how it worked already? When I go up some steep hills here, vehicle speed is negligible, whilst power is high. Once you have the desired speed, the power comes off slightly, but if you need more, you just give it more. The vehicle is always running at optimum for the conditions.

I don't see any point in gears at all.