Toyota Safety Sense

[estate]

I'm not sure it should classified as an "Aid" as to me an aid is something that can be used to help you understand something more easily.  Judging by the post here, It clearly not helping, rather it's more of a distraction.

I tent to ignore it most of the time and I certainly wouldn't rely on it to inform me of the current speed limit. For instance some local councils erect 20MPH signs in a black circle, mainly near schools, that are only advisory signs, TSS RSA will pick this up and display the 20MPH on the screen, if you're driving out of school hours, what's the point of doing the speed indicated and frustrating drivers behind you.

It's a very limited system and sooner Toyota and the drivers of their vehicles realise this the better.

[st901]

59 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Yes I can, and I have. 

My Garmin sat nav with the speed camera database enabled, often picks up a speed limit or speed camera location from an adjacent road - not the road I' m actually driving on. More often than not, the sat nav clearly shows that it has picked up a speed limit or camera from an adjacent road. Again this is a driver aid - which provides advice, not 100% guaranteed accurate information about the speed limit that I am subject to at the time.

Again the onus is on the driver to be aware of one's surroundings and to drive responsibly within those surroundings - which includes speed limits.

At the end of the day, if one was caught speeding and one's defence was that a driver aid (whether TSS, sat nav, smartphone or similar) showed a higher speed limit than that actually in force, legally the defence wouldn't stand up.

Have actually read my manual now and it does state that the system may read stickers attached to the rear of the preceding  vehicle .

Therefor probably the best thing to do is treat the system as a random number generator  which may or may not correlate with the actual statutory speed limit for the road the vehicle is being driven on .

 

It doesn't look as if there is an option to disable  . Perhaps this can be done at a Toyota service center .

[Makokk]

A bit irrelevant but is there a way to disable the function that makes the car swich off when you stop. Does it actually save energy or fuel? Queuing is very annoying..

[Martin23]

43 minutes ago, Makokk said:

s there a way to disable the function that makes the car swich off when you stop

There was, from Auto Express in 2009  - " There’s also a small ‘eco’ button on the dashboard that disables the stop-start system."  I had stop start on a hire car last month and it drove me to distraction.  Perhaps the manual mentions a way?

[Makokk]

Thanks, I'll check and prob ask them on it's next service that should be coming up soon.. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Makokk said:

A bit irrelevant but is there a way to disable the function that makes the car swich off when you stop. Does it actually save energy or fuel?

If you have the stop/start system, this can be temporarily disabled by use of the 'eco' button, but the system resets itself when the ignition is turned off. The system will save fuel, albeit small quantities, and also reduce emissions.

[Makokk]

Thanks I'll give it a try and see.. It's one of these things I thought I'll eventually get used to it but hadn't realised how much it actually bothered me. Until I drove my old car for a month while back in Cyprus 😳

[Makokk]

Ummm not aure what happened here and whther I need to address this with my insurance or toyota directly but my windscreen cracked out of the blue. It was oarked outside work all day and did not get hit by any stones as far as I can recall....  It just cracked from one corner nearly to the middle of the windscreen..

[Makokk]

 I think I found a chip.. excellent, jut what I needed 😩

[FROSTYBALLS]

So insurance job then

[Makokk]

Yeah, Will thecsensors need to be adjusted afterwards? Not syre if they will be affected..

[Martin23]

28 minutes ago, Makokk said:

Yeah, Will thecsensors need to be adjusted afterwards? Not syre if they will be affected

Hi, the crack would mean a new windscreen -  damage of less than 40 mm (4cm) in diameter is legally acceptable, but your crack looks much longer than that  and in any event it will probably creep up the screen to the top, meaning a replacement is essential.  My guess would be that a new screen will require action from Toyota to re-attach the camera pod and probably to re-align the camera and laser, but suggest a call to your dealership will tell you all you need.  I would think they are probably the only place to go to get this fixed, because the windscreen replacement companies can't attend to the camera pod.

Cheers!

Martin

[Cyker]

That's kinda weird... I swear we had another person semi-recently who had a crack develop on their windscreen from a corner a bit like that... damned if I can find the post tho'...

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 minutes ago, Cyker said:

That's kinda weird... I swear we had another person semi-recently who had a crack develop on their windscreen from a corner a bit like that... damned if I can find the post tho'...

One member had a crack develop in their panoramic roof ......

[Cyker]

Mmmmm... it might have been that and I'm just mis-remembering I guess... 

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Age .....

[Makokk]

Sorry this is not direclty related to the safety sensor fault.. My insurer directed me to autoglass where they said they will replace my windscreen and recalibrate my sensors. I contacted Toyota and they said that no one else is allowed to calibrate the sensors apart from their own technicians (for a fee of course). I don't want to pay double if I don't have to and to be honest the only reason I am not getting any warnings now is because the weather is warm. Once the winter comesI would bet touota will try to blame any problems to not having the sensors calibrcalibrated by them. Can they invalidate my warranty when it comes the the senors?

[FROSTYBALLS]

The vehicle glass repair companies that insurers contract with tend to use replacement glass manufactured by third parties, rather than 'original equipment' glass. 

As regards the TSS sensors, it is your insurer's responsibility to put your car back into the same condition it was in prior to the damage.

Obviously the Toyota warranty will not cover the replacement glass, parts or work done (ie sensor recalibration) by a third party - that will be covered by your insurer or the third party. 

If the sensors aren't recalibrated properly once the damage is repaired, it is the insurer's responsibility to rectify that - not Toyota's.

[Martin23]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Obviously the Toyota warranty will not cover the replacement glass, parts or work done (ie sensor recalibration) by a third party - that will be covered by your insurer or the third party.

I disagree on practical grounds.  Legally / technically you're probably right, but I understood only Toyota has the calibration equipment for Toyota vehicles and it's different for each make of car, so what happens when there's a fault again - plus are the autoglass technicians fully trained in this, do they have the Toyota software or can they access it?  Finally a recalibration session takes half a day in the workshop (it did when they fitted my new heating element as they had to remove the pod), so will autoglass do this on your drive or do they have a dedicated workshop?

If there's a repeat of the TSS problem next winter I do believe Toyota is within its rights to say "not my problem, speak to the people who re-calibrated it" and it would be so much simpler for your insurance company to have Toyota do the job in my view.  A good first step would be to discuss it with Autoglass and understand if they have fully trained technicians, the right equipment and a dedicated workshop.  It may well be that your insurance company does not understand what is involved with the TSS system.

Frankly I think you need legal advice.  A visit to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau would be a good starting point and most solicitors offer a free 30 minute advice session -  and I'd also recommend asking a question on the Honest John website: https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/73704/do-you-know-about-the-on-off-nature-of-toyota-s-safety-sense-system-

(on the righthand side there's an orange box with "? Ask Honest John" at the top)

 

Good luck!

Cheers

Martin

[FROSTYBALLS]

At the end of the day it is down to the insurer who they use to undertake the required repair, and it will be the insurer or their contractor who warranties the repair.

[Martin23]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

At the end of the day it is down to the insurer

Sorry Mike, wrong:

http://www.motorclaimguru.co.uk/your-rights-as-a-consumer.html

"The right to use your own repairer is covered under the consumer rights directive 1993, The Association of British Insurer's (A.B.I.) What was the Office of Fair Trade (OFT) the Financial Service Authority(FSA) which is now the FCA and the Vehicle Body Repair Association (VBRA/RMI) all agreed that the consumer has the right to choose!

The Consumer rights act 2015 now supercedes it.

Motor Vehicle block exemption regulations ec1400/2002 

EU law ensures, for competitive purposes, that every car owner has the right to freely choose any repair shop to provide services and repairs for their vehicle (see the Block Exemption for motor vehicles and the Market Court (2012:13)). Manufacturers are obligated to provide the information necessary for any independent repair shop to be able to perform these repairs and services.

Application part 8 of the Enterprise act for unfair trading regulations 2008
The Consumer Protection for unfair trading regulations 2008 and application 8 of 2002 enterprise act, prohibits unfair commercial practices including agressive "Steerage techniques" and misleading actions, these are action which may materially distort your economic behaviour.
“materially distort the economic behaviour” means in relation to an average consumer, appreciably to impair the average consumer’s ability to make an informed decision thereby causing him to take a transactional decision that he would not have taken otherwise; 


2015 Insurance Act also stipulates prior to a contract occuring, the insurer has to make the insured aware that the contract fulfills the demands and needs of the consumer,and any adverse term or condition is brought to the attention of the consumer. This should have no material detriment to the consumer. To advise after the contract has occured any restriction's in the consumers choice, or advise that you seek to reduce your contractural liabilities is a breach of the act. 



Do not let the insurance company tell you otherwise! 

[Makokk]

When the windscreen first cracked I had to take the car to their centre as like you guys mentioned they needed specialist equipment to calibrate the sensors. Unfortunately I got there only to be told they didn't have the right windscreen for the vehicle and they needed to order it which could have taken 3-4 weeks and they could not give me an appointment until they got it in. So I rang my insurer and said that I don't want to wait and I asked if I can get it done with toyota instead. They said that was fine, I would still only have to pay my excess fee they  would reimburse any difference . So I contacted toyota. 

Toyota uses someone like autoglass to get the screen replaced, which would not be done at toyota but roadside at my home or at work and then they would get the car in to do the calibration. That means from the windscreen being changed until the calibrations being done there will be a period where the sensors are not working. Knowing my work schedule it could take a week or more before I can take the car as I can’t leave work easily..

One of the reason autoglass is insisting on doing the calibration is because they don’t want any responsibility in the event of an accident which toyota has not thought about. There is a question whether my insurance will be valid if I drive my car without the sensors working. 

In my mind we should be able to see straightaway if the calibration is not right as I would expect to get all the warnings that I have been getting throughout the winter. If these don’t occur until the winter then I would expect it to be because of the original fault and not autoglass.

I can’t help but feel that toyota will seize any opportunity to charge me for the sensors or throw any blame for the problem returning in the future on me even though I clearly have a faulty system. I asked them if there are any new updates or remedial work that needs to be done since the lat time they worked on the car and they said there is none. I am confident they never installed the heating element hence my sensors were not working in the winter. 

I don’t know what to do really.. damn chip!

[cobh18]

Think I would prefer this sort of work to be done or supervised, by the dealer.  Recalibration seems quite involved from what I was told by the technician locally.

Might be useful to know, in the event of a screen being damaged,  and requiring replacement, what steps are needed to maintain a fully functioning TSS. 

Do Autoglass or other windscreen repair firms, know about the TSS function and its integration with the windscreen? Training?

Does a replacement windscreen include the sensor binnacle, or is that part "pried off" the defective screen and refitted, or separately sourced?

As to the heater element Maria, it is possible to check whether a heating element is present by using an non-contact infra-red thermometer. I already had one for checking all sorts of things. Then when the modification was done, I wanted to see whether there actually was a heater fitted within the binnacle. There was.

Difference between the screen ambient temperature and the area heated was noticeable.  Mine cost £12.49 btw.

[FROSTYBALLS]

14 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

At the end of the day it is down to the insurer who they use to undertake the required repair, and it will be the insurer or their contractor who warranties the repair.

 

13 hours ago, Martin23 said:

Sorry Mike, wrong:

No I'm not. You only quoted part of my response.

The ABI is a trade association and covers 90% of the UK's insurers. Depending on who the member is insured with and whether that insurer are a member of the ABI, they may or may not agree with and abide by the ABI's quoted opinion on the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Block Exemption applies to vehicle servicing and repairs during the new car warranty period. This is why, when manufacturers sell extended warranties, they can legally stipulate who should service the vehicle during the extended warranty period. For example, with the Toyota extended warranty, the customer's commitment is - "Your car must be serviced and inspected by an Authorised Toyota Service Centre at least once a year or more frequently for high mileage use, as set out in your service record booklet."  See - https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/warranty/extended-warranty.json

As regards the warranty on the repair, that will be covered by the insurer or their contractor, not the vehicle manufacturer. 

In view of Maria's latest post, it looks likely that Autoglass will be used to replace the screen - and they will warranty the new windscreen. 

As regards calibration Maria needs to go back to her insurer to clarify who should re calibrate the sensors, and whoever does the work, the insurer will warranty the repair, not the vehicle manufacturer.

Vehicle glass repairs often don't affect an insured's NCD. However, as the repair will count as a claim, this may result in an increased premium come renewal time. It may be worth checking one's insurance policy and schedule, and clarifying with the insurer whether or not this may be the case.

As regards whether the car is safe to drive if the TSS sensors do not work, as TSS is a driver aid and NOT part of the safety restraint system (SRS), which is essentially the airbags and seatbelts, etc, there should be no reason to worry. If in doubt, check with the insurer.

 

[YarisHybrid2016]

Quote

As regards whether the car is safe to drive if the TSS sensors do not work

I don't think the problem was about safety, but legality (if TSS is inoperative, does driving without it invalidate the insurance?).