Toyota Safety Sense

[timspud]

FYI, Toyota Ireland are getting involved and trying to sort, UNSUCCESSFULLY. Have spoken to the directors about it. They maintain if the warning lights come on to tell you the system is not working then the system works. When the TSS fails the auto high beam and wipers all stop working too. It seems you can claim the cars could fly and then throw up a screen sorry "this system is temporarily disabled" and get away with it. Did anyone notice they are not advertising the sysyem anymore!

[FROSTYBALLS]

48 minutes ago, timspud said:

Did anyone notice they are not advertising the sysyem anymore!

In the UK for the 2017 model year, the standard fitment if TSS is widening - now on the Verso, the C-HR, and all bar one grade of the Auris. So the need to advertise and encourage buyers to opt for the system is reducing .....

[cobh18]

In this thread "Auris excel hybrid with toyota safety sense" Auristi has posted a T-SB relating to Auris models before 30.9.16.

 

 

 

 

On 14/12/2016 at 10:47 AM, st901 said:

The collision warning bleep isn't a problem , not sure if it can be turned and I haven't felt the need to do so .

Early morning condensation does bring up a warning that the system is inoperative but this soon clears .

They have now solve the problem (BE-0071T-1016). On the modification they install better heating element under the camera and update the software. This mod came on last month. My Auris has got now this modification. On the attach, you can see the mod (sorry, it is on  Finnish..)

Kameralämmitys.pdf

Perhaps Kingo could confirm if this is not the correct TSB, assuming there is an English language counterpart? 

 

 

 

[timspud]

4 hours ago, cobh18 said:

In this thread "Auris excel hybrid with toyota safety sense" Auristi has posted a T-SB relating to Auris models before 30.9.16.

just to be clear, i had the heater fitted, the "non stick coating applied" and a second heater and now the software update. the software update merely hides the fact tthat the sensors dont work, the blue warning screen only appears for a 2/3 seconds, the flashing orange light is as before but sits behind the odometer pointer if you are doing 120 kmh, therefore when you are now driving you may miss the warning , and your auto high beam and auto wipers will not be working without your knowlege, very sneeky "fix" by toyota, more like an ostrich burying its the head in the sand

 

They have now solve the problem (BE-0071T-1016). On the modification they install better heating element under the camera and update the software. This mod came on last month. My Auris has got now this modification. On the attach, you can see the mod (sorry, it is on  Finnish..)

Kameralämmitys.pdf

Perhaps Kingo could confirm if this is not the correct TSB, assuming there is an English language counterpart? 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably as the TSB clearly relates to just the Auris, it doesn't relate to the Avensis. So there may be a TSB that addresses the issue in the Avensis.

[cobh18]

Any idea, Timspud, whether there was a TSB identified in the mods made to your vehicle?

[Terry Parrott]

Here is the bulletin translated to English. Enjoy!

Kameralämmitys.fi.en.pdf

[cobh18]

Thanks TP. Oh joy. 16 pages of instructions! Will add this TSB ref. to my symptoms list when they pick up the car. Hopefully the driver will also confirm the error messages on the rugged journey via the Cat and Fiddle. Photo of the topography in the area:)

 

 

[Terry Parrott]

The car is going in tomorrow - hopefully after which the TSS system will work correctly. Just in case it doesn't - just sent formal notification to me local dealer that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (we are still within the initial 6 months period after purchase) in which I can reject the vehicle.

[Parts-King]

TSB's change from time to time and putting up the bulletin number serves no purpose, they are also confidential documents which, as a duty of care, I would not divulge anyway. That is why I have asked you to check with your local dealer to get your vehicles checked out. There is a danger that people will take the bulletin into their own hands and cause cause serious problems themselves by tinkering with the system. As I have said, there is quite a complicated process of fitting new parts and calibrating the system, that needs to be done at your dealer who will readily discuss what has been done to sort out the issues experienced

Terry Parrott: I understand your frustration, however rejecting a car is not an easy process, I would urge you to discuss that in detail with your dealer, it is the dealer you bought the car from with whom your contract is, tell them your intentions, but it's not as easy as dropping the keys off and walking away, please consider it carefully. 

Kingo 

 

[cobh18]

Given the complexity of the remedies and the QC required, shown in the TSB above, and that my car is still under warranty, no way I would want to start meddling!  A competent technician might be able to deal with this, though. But, we would benefit from knowing that there is a solution, or a series of actions, relevant to the symptoms. BTW, TSBs are available on subscription basis in USA, at a modest price.  Apparently NHTSA can also supply TSBs.  http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7656/~/what-is-a-technical-service-bulletin-and-how-is-it-obtained%3F

[FROSTYBALLS]

The US has different legislation regarding access to information, etc, and it is probably a requirement there for manufacturers and government departments to provide specified levels of product information.

The same doesn't apply in the UK. 

The UK has had a freedom of information act, but this only applies to public authorities (eg. Government departments, local authorities, etc)

[cobh18]

Did they jump, or were they pushed? Suggestion here that pressure had to be exerted: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Prius/2010/lights/lights_stopped_working.shtml

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whether they jumped or were pushed in the US, is irrelevant in the UK.

[cobh18]

If the information is already out there, the UK should also have access to this information. 

 

 

 

[Parts-King]

You do have access to workshop manuals, accessory manuals etc, the UK does not make internal bulletins available to the general public as they are subject to change at any time, and as I have said before, are confidential. if you had access to the incorrect information via an old bulletin, the information may be useless the next time the bulletin is updated. Bulletins issued in the USA might be completely different to Europe, I would not use any information in those at all. 

[cobh18]

Not suggesting we should use US market TSB material, and I agree it may well be more than useless if missapplied. Merely the principle that knowing of the existence of TSBs would be helpful in these circumstances. Obviously, The Finnish market has a TSB for Auris models assembled in the UK, and the German market where they also have problems with TSS in cold weather. Solution said to be available at or from the end of 2016. Very long thread on the German Auris forum which I won't link, as it goes on a bit!

[Parts-King]

I don't know what to tell you, a TSB does exist, what else do you need to know? There is a solution, just go and see your dealer and they will fix it for you

Kingo 

[Terry Parrott]

I would never start to carry out any modification to a car still under warranty. But I have several serious issues here. 1) For the 2nd time in just 2 years, Toyota will not come clean when there is an issue nor do they notify customers. My previous Auris had misting up headlamps, and it took me weeks to get Toyota to admit they had a batch manufacturing problem. 2) Toyota peddle TSS as a safety system, and hence it should not be for customers to struggle only in desperation to visit their dealer to find out there is a fix.  Toyota and more so the dealer should be offering up the fix for anyone who wants it. Much better customer service. 3) It patently obvious that the current TSS underwent very little testing. Just a few hours in a cold chamber would have shown the issue. Or maybe Toyota new and just ignored it? 4) Toyota knew when they delivered my car that they had an issue with TSS, but did not install the fix on my car before I took delivery.

Overall its a shambles!

[cobh18]

I think my line on this issue is influenced by the seeming reluctance of the dealer to acknowlledge 1) that there is a problem (suggesting the TSS function can be ignored) and 2) to confirm that there is (probably) a technical solution from Toyota. We now know that there is a TSB for Finland, only because a member posted it, but not that there is a TSB for the UK and Ireland. Not an open approach is it? 

[Parts-King]

38 minutes ago, Terry Parrott said:

Toyota peddle TSS as a safety system, and hence it should not be for customers to struggle only in desperation to visit their dealer to find out there is a fix.  Toyota and more so the dealer should be offering up the fix for anyone who wants it. Much better customer service

 

. 3) It patently obvious that the current TSS underwent very little testing. Just a few hours in a cold chamber would have shown the issue. Or maybe Toyota new and just ignored it? 4) Toyota knew when they delivered my car that they had an issue with TSS, but did not install the fix on my car before I took delivery.

Overall its a shambles!

There is a fix for those who want it, it is not a recall so you would not be notified by Toyota, this is why you should go via your dealer if you have an issue

You (and I) have no idea what type of testing TSS underwent, but to say it was a few hours in a cold chamber?? It is a well documented fact that NO in house testing of any component is the same as "real life" testing, hence the millions of recalls that occur worldwide with any product. The real world test is a far stiffer test 

It is true to say this issue has been around for a while, but Toyota have come up with a solution, let your dealer sort it for you

[Parts-King]

4 minutes ago, cobh18 said:

I think my approach to this issue is influenced by the seeming reluctance of the dealer to acknowlledge 1) that there is a problem (suggesting the TSS function can be ignored therefore don't bother us) and 2) to confirm that there is (probably) a technical solution. We now know that there is a TSB for Finland, and possibly a recall process for Germany, but not that there is a TSB for the UK and Ireland to deal with this. Not an open approach is it? 

The TSB is quite recent, so no dealer will know what Toyota are working on, and would be in the dark (forgive the pun) 

Can we please accept there is now a fix, there is a UK TSB, why do you keep saying there is one everywhere else but not the UK??

From all my years experience with Toyota, I can say they are the most honest and open companies you could deal with, take the criticism they get for too many recalls by some people. They don't bottle them up, they say there is a recall and they get on with it, more than could be said for others I can think of.

Kingo 

[Terry Parrott]

The TSB is nearly 3 months old, so not new. TSS is the Toyota SAFETY Sense, the key word being safety. If its a safety system why is there no recall? Why is there not a common EU policy in place?

A few years ago when I had company cars most of my cars were BMW's. I would often get a call from the dealer that, though not a recall, a modification was available for my car. Why can't Toyota have the same customer focus?

[FROSTYBALLS]

The DVSA recall system relies on sufficient customer complaints to DVSA being received before they will investigate with a manufacturer, whether an issue affects the safety of a vehicle. If there are no or insufficient complaints to DVSA, no official recall action will take place.

Aside from this, Toyota does have their recall checker, which owners may use to find out whether there are any outstanding recalls or voluntary service campaigns on their vehicle - https://www.toyota.co.uk/caring-for-your-toyota/owners/recall-checker.json

[timspud]

25 minutes ago, Parts-King said:

The TSB is quite recent, so no dealer will know what Toyota are working on, and would be in the dark (forgive the pun) 

Can we please accept there is now a fix, there is a UK TSB, why do you keep saying there is one everywhere else but not the UK??

From all my years experience with Toyota, I can say they are the most honest and open companies you could deal with, take the criticism they get for too many recalls by some people. They don't bottle them up, they say there is a recall and they get on with it, more than could be said for others I can think of.

Kingo 

i disagree totally, my car was recalled in December 2016 for the 3rd time to attempt a fix, the fix merely hides the fact that your TSS is not working, it only flashes on your dash for 2 or 3seconds now instead of a continuous screen, i have spoken to the technical director for Toyota last april who told me to be grateful i lived in Ireland (he said the problem got worse the further north you went). under consumer protection the goods are not as described and the the dealers should be offering echange or refund. Toyota need to own up and be honest with everyone and stop playing for time. their stance is because the TSS tells you it is not working it is preforming correctly, the fact that it only actually works about 5% of the the time is irrelevant in their eyes which is total B***sh*t