Prius Versus Golf Gte Mpg

[barrycoll]

I am still tempted by a GTE if the Gen 4 fails to deliver.....but reading the forums suggests athat either new owners dont know just how to drive a plug in hybrid, or the car is worse than I thought

https://speakev.com/threads/whats-your-average-fuel-consumption-gters.10610/

I dont know whether the Golf B setting is as for the Prius, as it is assumed max regen by GTE owners, when really it just could be to dump energy when the Battery is at 80%

What do mature hybrid owners think???

[YarisHybrid2016]

I don't know much about the Government grant, but looking at the spec alone I'd go with something Toyota hybrid!

The Golf GTE looks nice, but it is at least £6K more than an Excel spec Prius. It also has a conventional gearbox, which then raises additional questions as to how they mix an ICE and electric motor.

Just from a technical perspective, it looks extremely expensive for what you get, and given the oddities such as having a conventional gearbox arrangement, it seems efficiency will not be too good.

What is it you don't like about the Prius 4th Gen?

[barrycoll]

You are right aaa, the showroom price is optomistic....but if you go through drivethedeal the price is about the same as

a Excel Prius

https://www.drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/VOLKSWAGEN/GOLF_HATCHBACK/1.4_TSI_GTE_5dr_DSG_66791.html?Capid=66791&type=discounted

https://www.drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/TOYOTA/PRIUS_HATCHBACK/1.8_VVTi_Excel_5dr_CVT_73226.html?Capid=73226&type=discounted

this a a£9k plus discount froma car that has been specced up with stuff that I would like (sunroof etc), but that Toyota , in their wisdom, choose not to offer.

And yes again, you are right that VAG use a DSG gearbox, which seems to have had its problems in the past, but maybe not so, without a dual mass flywheel.

(On the other hand Prius reliability, is a hard aspect to dismiss lightly!)

Not too sure about the spare wheel aspect, (which is Pete B's bete noir), of either car, but maybe the space saver I bought for the Tpirit would also fit a Gen 4 17" wheel....interestingly, the Lexus CT 200 DO offer a space saver (at extra cost)...

The Excel also offers (for the first time) a tow bar attachment, so no problems with bike transport

So all swings and roundabouts, with no manufacturer offering all the bits that I would like on my next car, and the GTE forum having mixed messages about what mpg one could expect when driving the car sensibly in auto/hybrid mode...most ,members are too keen on exploring the 200+ bhp

[PeteB]

...(On the other hand Prius reliability, is a hard aspect to dismiss lightly!)...

...most members are too keen on exploring the 200+ bhp

Also, in my case I would be seriously worried about losing the Norwich Toyota dealer I've been with for 14 years and found to be the best dealer I've ever experienced!

For that matter, I see quite a few Toyota Hybrids pass me being driven, shall we say, enthusiastically! (albeit not as rapidly as the VW might!) - I wonder what sort of mpg some of them get?

[barrycoll]

Yes, having a good relationship with a dealer is good enough reason to stay with their product. Unfortunately, the small dealer that influenced me to buy an IQ and a Prius, has closed down and the land become appartments, which has cast me into the wilderness of Jemca....which could equally be Alan Day/Citygate, and so not a particularly edifying experience.

But what nobody seems to be influenced by is that the Golf offers 30 miles of EV everyday, which no Toy product can claim.

[PeteB]

The UK Gen 4 Prius will, according to http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-prius-prices-and-specifications have 15" wheels and a space saver on the first 2 models (Active & Business Edition) and 17" wheels with a bigger boot and gunge on the top two models (Business Edition Plus & Excel).

The EV range is not a major factor for me, as most days the 10-13 mile range of the current plugin Prius would suffice, but I absolutely won't go without a spare wheel (at least until they come up with a non pneumatic wheel design).

The new plugin (when it comes) is mooted to also have an EV range of around 30 miles, but I doubt if I'll be persuaded unless it comes with 4WD and a spare wheel with a proper secure mounting point (which seems exceedingly unlikely!).

I've gone off the Gen 4 somewhat anyway, now I know it won't have a 4WD option in the UK (at least to start with). I'm more likely now to wait to see what the Tesla Model 3 has to offer in a few years' time.

[Heidfirst]

if the top 2 models come without a spare wheel there will be nothing to stop you buying one (probably in a complete kit) same as on Auris & Avensis.

[PeteB]

Sure, but the inference is the boot is larger, which I suspect means there's nowhere to store it safely - time will tell.

I sure wouldn't want a spare wheel flying about inside the car in a crash. A police crash investigator once told me about a guy who was killed when a first aid kit hit him on the back of the head in a crash that should have been survivable.

[Heidfirst]

If it's the same as an Auris/Avensis the wheel well will be the same size & the wheel bolt mounting will be there. The spare is deleted on higher models to keep the weight down as they have more kit & may go up a tax class due to slightly poorer mpg (the larger wheels don't help)/higher emissions.

The plugin may differ from the normal Prius.

[Mkuk0]

A colleague of mine has had the A3 version for about 4 months and averages 46mpg, no idea about the elec side of it though as I'm not sure he understands it either. Unless we get a 32a charger installed here at the office, I don't think I'll bother and just keep my Prius!

[Chris Dance]

I cannot get my head round the fact that dealers do not supply all new cars with a spare wheel. I do not know anybody who prefers the "gunge". Friends of mine bought a new Vauxhall about 18 months ago, they have just realized of how useless gunge is having tried to use it on a punctured tyre. . I have an open mind about the new Gen 4 but so far I hear nothing to want to change our Gen 3. I think it is a big error by Toyota in not supplying the top models of the Gen 4 with a spare wheel. No way should it be optional on the top models.

[JHRC]

Hi Barry,

We have now had the outlander for 6 weeks, and done about a 1000 mile, mostly local using Battery, the furthest distance was yesterday 33 miles to Glasgow Braehead. Mainly motorway driving, with adaptive Cruise control set at 70mph which automatically detected the slower car and trucks in front and slowed the car down and kepted a distance of about 2 car length behind and increased speed when the vehicles changed lanes, this was new experience for me, I was driving at 70 and the cabin heater set for 19.5 I was able to drive on Battery for about 15 miles until ICE started. Braehead has both type of changer fast charger would have charged the Battery to 80% or slow charger take about 3 hours to fully charge I used the latter. My wife drovee the car home so I don't know battery changed to Ice, back home I took the car to the local train station car park, where they have a fast charger that I use alot and left it for 30 min.

The outlander for me was the ideal replacement for the Prius and the Rav4 and is only 8.5" longer than the Prius. Parking is easy with the 4 cameras front,rear and on the both door mirrors, when driving into a parking bay you press the switch on the steering wheel front camera where the line are and also has tram line to assist press swicth again you get 360 degree view, when reversing is the same tram line to assist plus you have front and rear sensors.

This car can also tow a caravan upto 1500kg which I will never do, but with a towbar install you could have a bike carrier on it.

Pete B made a list of what he would like on a car and I think this model has about 95% of his list.

I also get 3 year pan-European roadside assistance including home start, which Toyota don't give you.

3 yrs servicing for £500 and buy from drive the deal and save £9200 including olev grant.

olev grant is changing on February this year to £2500 for PHEV.

This is a list standard equipment with my car,

Keyless operation system
Remotely controlled keyless entry

Forward collision mitigation system
Lane departure warning system
Cruise control, adaptive
Speed limiter, adjustable
Active stability & traction control
Emergency stop signal system
Permanent 4WD with super all-wheel control switch
Unintended Acceleration Mitigation System

Electric sunroof

Rear view mirror, auto dimming
Parking sensors, front and rear
360 Camera with Steering Wheel Switch
Camera front, rear, and on both door mirrors

Electric cabin Heater (does not require ICE to started to heat the cabin)

Remote charge/heating via smartphone app

Leather seats
Electrically adjustable drivers seat
Heated front seats

Electric, heated, folding mirrors with indicators (folds when door are locked)

Electric rear tailgate
Tailgate handle, inner

Daytime running lights, LED type
Headlamps, automatic light sensor
Headlamps, LED with auto levelling
Headlamps, follow you home function
Headlamp washers
Fog lamps, front & rear

Wipers, auto rain sensors

240v 5m charging cable, 10amp
CHAdeMO rapid charging connection

Tyre inflation kit

Alloy wheels, 18"

Privacy glass - rear side and rear windows

Roof rails, silver

Servicing 12,500 miles / 12 months
Insurance group 22E
Warranty 5 years / 62,500 miles
EV Component Warranty (up to 24 months) Unlimited mileage
EV Component Warranty (25-60 months) Limited to 62,500 miles (total mileage since first registration)
Traction Battery Warranty (25-96 Months) Limited to 100,000 miles (total mileage since first registration)
Anti perforation 12 year anti-corrosion perforation warranty
Assistance 3 year pan-European roadside assistance including home start

Seating capacity 5
Fuel tank capacity lts (imp.galls) 45 (9.9)
Gross vehicle weight kg (lbs) 2340 (5159)
Kerb weight kg (lbs) 1845 (4068)
Towing capacity, braked kg (lbs) 1500 (3307)
Roof loading capacity kg (lbs) 80 (176)

Exterior length x width x height mm 4695 x 1800 x 1710

Width with mirrors extended 2120mm

[Heidfirst]

I cannot get my head round the fact that dealers do not supply all new cars with a spare wheel. I do not know anybody who prefers the "gunge". Friends of mine bought a new Vauxhall about 18 months ago, they have just realized of how useless gunge is having tried to use it on a punctured tyre. . I have an open mind about the new Gen 4 but so far I hear nothing to want to change our Gen 3. I think it is a big error by Toyota in not supplying the top models of the Gen 4 with a spare wheel. No way should it be optional on the top models.

Dealers don't supply all cars with spare wheels because that is how they are supplied by the manufacturers. & the manufacturers do that because the additional weight/cost can put the cars into a different tax bracket which has an effect on sales.

Toyota are better than most (at least in the UK) in terms of supplying spares as standard or the cost as an option plus the information is available as to what is supplied for those who choose to look.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

I'm surprised the outlander only has a 45L tank, tiny for a 30mph car in HV only mode on a long journey imo!

A colleague of mine has had the A3 version for about 4 months and averages 46mpg, no idea about the elec side of it though as I'm not sure he understands it either. Unless we get a 32a charger installed here at the office, I don't think I'll bother and just keep my Prius!

Hell, is that the plug in Audi? only 46mpg!

[barrycoll]

That is a great list of expensive kit on the Outlander, Jim, but doubtles Pete B would notice the No Spare Wheel 'Option'

....and , yes, a sunroof, and most other things that one could wish for..

but what sort of mileage does the car do, if on an extended trip, with no e-plug possibilities??? You didn't say.

the A3 that was written about suggests 46 mpg, but of course one doesnt know just how people drive their cars....

In essence the Prius is optomized by the use of an Atkinson cycle ICE, and so tuned for eco rather than Power, so other manufacturers have a foot in both camps, especially the VAG twins

[JHRC]

I am still experimenting with the fuel side of the car, but since I bought it I had half a tank then I drove till fuel warning lamp came on put 40 ltr in and then 32ltr on the 31st dec. never used any fuel until I went to Glasgow which was return journey of 66 miles and looks like I used about a gallon of fuel, this was travelling most of the time at motorway speed of 70 mph.

Tomorrow I hope to travel to ayrshire which I did regulary with the Prius which is 75 miles and gave me 78 mpg, I will be able compare the fuel use then as that will be my most travelled distance during spring to autumm months.

The spare wheel issue I agree with everbody here, but with the Prius I only had 1 puncture and that was a screw which was noticed by the saleman at Audi when I was considering the etron, which now I take as a omen the way VAG has been fiddling their fuel figures.

To cover for the spare wheel, I could fit a towbar and buy bike carrier then modify it to carry and secure a spare, that way it could then been easy removed and stored in the boot. I also have the 3 yrs breakdown cover if needed.

I forgot to mention the app's you can use to charge the car or heat the cabin for 10,20 or 30 min. before you drive the car and 1 more thing is it also has a steering wheel heater, my will use that and always wished the Prius had one fitted.

1 thing I do miss is the HUD, I have been looking at after market ones but still undecided on GPS or OBD 2 versions.

Pete B stated that he likes leather seats but not black, my car colour is Granite Brown and the seat are also brown leather.

Johnathon the 45ltr tank does seem small but the outlander is programed to run the ICE after 3 months from last topup to stop fuel from going off and requires 15 ltr to reset ICE.

ZAP MAP will highlight all the charging station and type of charger on any route you desire, England has a lot charging stations. I have ecotricity card and CYC (charge youy car) card paid £20 for year second year free for CYC. Most charging station free

Take a road test and you will see how quiet it is and it is made in Japan.

There will be thing that I missed there are so many.

[barrycoll]

You are a good sales man Jim! May be a test drive is in order........

Drivethedeal can get the price down to Prius level, but a lot of the kit goes out too........no sunroof except on level 4 and above

The width is always a concern as a possible London driver, as a small lady in an Audi Q7 coming towards us, and well over the centre line, makes for breath holding....the IQ is comfortable, the Prius can be a problem, and an Outlander may be an insurance claim?

....but ti will be interesting to hear the genuine mpg levels for long distances

[JHRC]

Started a return journey with full Battery and mixed motorway and dual carriageways driving of 150 mile, heater was set at 20 and I averaged 40mpg, 25 miles Battery and 125 miles petrol/hybride this could have been better, but due to non ev cars parked in the charging bay I had no access for a charge, which if I had a pure ev car I would have had to change my route to get a charge. Comparing the weight of 1800kg to my RAV4 diesel which gave me about 42 mpg, I am fairly satisfied that once the better weather comes things will improve.

The width of the outlander I have updated to with mirrors extended is 2120mm, but compared to golf gte Width - excluding door mirrors 1799mm, etron 1966mm with mirrors, Prius 1,745mm and new Prius 1,770mm excluding door mirrors.

As for deal have a look in this forum https://speakev.com/threads/what-kind-of-deals-are-available.11761/ you will be very surprised the deals some people has managed.

[barrycoll]

It is a great Pity that Toyota do not offer the Prius, with an optional long list of extras, as all the Germans do.....to be able to pick and choose is what most people want, but selling increasingly priced 'grades' seems to be where the Japanese thinking is.

For me, in London, the Outlander is just too big, as the outer tyre does not even fit in an average on street parking bay, and a wheel on the white line could trigger a £££ back pocket exit.

It is very frustraing to wish to pay for a lot of the toys, BUT, together with smaller wheels AND a space saver spare.

But Toyota do not read this blog so we are whistling in the wind......sometimes the Germans seem to get it right

[PeteB]

On 13/01/2016 at 3:11 PM, barrycoll said:

It is a great Pity that Toyota do not offer the Prius, with an optional long list of extras...

...But Toyota do not read this blog so we are whistling in the wind......sometimes the Germans seem to get it right

Yup!

But they don't even listen when they ask!

In mid 2003 (about six months before the Gen 2 Prius was launched), Toyota invited about 20 members of the Yahoo Prius-UK group to a preview of the new model in Wimbledon. I was mightily impressed that they were so interested in our opinions.

 

Many of the group very forcefully said that we would be really unhappy with a space saver spare tyre (the left hand drive, pre production model they showed us had no spare at all, just a can of gunge). A couple of people virtually dismantled the boot to prove they could make space for a 'proper' spare.

 

We also mentioned heated mirrors, and when one of the Toyota people mentioned they were considering fitting a reversing camera (just a camera - no self park at that time, although the Japanese model had park assist from day one) and many of us said we would kill for such a feature.

 

I also pointed out that adaptive cruise control had been available on the luxury end of the market about 15 years and it was high time it permeated toward cars like the 2nd generation Prius - it didn't.

 

So imagine our disappointment when the car was launched with:

• a toy spare wheel (but at least it had one!)
• bigger wheels (16") than many of us wanted (Gen 1 Prius was fine on 14"!)
• no heated mirrors (by this time even humble Fiesta were getting electric folding mirrors as well!)
• no reversing camera, but an annoying beep instead!

They got 5 brownie points for asking our opinion, then lost 3000 for ignoring everything we told them!

[Dapple]

Barry, I had a very interesting discussion with 2 drivers of Mitsubishi PHEVs recenly, both had them as company vehicles with the same company. One lived locally and didnt travel much for work, so generally didnt use petrol at all, and was very pleased. The other did 20k plus motorway miles annually on company business and was fed up with constantly filling it up and averaged under 30mpg.

I dont say this in criticism of the car, only to point out that it is essential to know your mix of local/commuting/distance mileage to know whether and which of these type of vehicles work for you or against you.

I had a gen3 solar Prius and commute 30 miles total daily cross country with a lot of hills. The Prius scraped 50 mpg on this. I currently average 150mpg commuting and 115mpg lifetime with a Vauxhall Ampera. In the summer my commute goes to 250mpg. This is due to the 50mile electric range that the car has, which is 25-30 real world in winter. The Mitsubishi wouldnt work for me due to its more limited range. However for some it works very well.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I had a gen3 solar Prius and commute 30 miles total daily cross country with a lot of hills. The Prius scraped 50 mpg on this. I currently average 150mpg commuting and 115mpg lifetime with a Vauxhall Ampera.

..... so please alter your profile to accurately reflect what car you currently have.

[johalareewi]

The solar panel on the gen3 prius only powers a ventilation fan.

It doesn't charge the HV Battery (or even the 12V battery).

[barrycoll]

The solar panel, really does very little, and certainly does not cool the car on a hot day....but you are obliged to 'buy' one, if you opt for an opening roof

One wonders what a solar panel would cost, if it was on an Options List???

Richard, the Outlander sounds like it wouldn't do very well mpg wise, on a straight drive down to Spain, with no e+ option

[Dapple]

In those circumstances I dont think it would Barry.

BUT, if the Spanish trip was only 1% of your annual mileage, and the rest were15 mile shopping trips, you could still be winning!

Its all down to the mileage mix.

On a long fast fossil fuel only trip, I reckon you would gain 10mpg in a VAG E-Tron, 20mpg in an Ampera, 30mpg in a Gen3 Prius, and possibly 40mpg in a good diesel (if thats not an oxymoron).