Shall i save up for a Hybrid?

[lilpopjim]

Hi guys,

Some of you may recognise me from the past week moaning how i bought an SR180 with a blown head gasket; I'm taking it back to the guy in a few days for a full refund so thats good..

Anyways! I've always wanted a hybrid. My mum had a 3.4L Hybrid Lexus RX400H; it was a brilliant car. It got 36mpg! A little better than my 1.8 Corolla and a little less than my SR180. The only thing holding me back is the cost of a hybrid; current prices show about £8,000 +- £500 for a Hybrid Auris. I currently have £4,000 saved up to buy a decent SR180 but now that i have the opportunity to get that money back, i was thinking in saving up to get the hybrid instead. Who doesn't want awesome MPG!?

Now... I love the SR180. I love the torque which makes overtaking and just spirited driving a blast + i love the car in general; coming from a 1.3TDI Corsa C and a 1.8 Corolla (first and second car respectively) the Auris is leagues ahead. I want to get another SR180 but thinking about it.. would it be better to get a hybrid instead?

So to summarise?

I want an SR180 as i love the power and car in general; however i know in the long run the hybrid will be a better choice with fuel costs, tax and insurance.. Especially for a university student! But i love the SR180. It's a brilliant car i really do love it.. however i don't fancy having a constant headache over possible engine trouble.. I'm good with engines/ mechanics in general however i can't fix a head gasket on one of these diesels!

To the people who own a hybrid. A Toyota Hybrid or Lexus Hybrid or whatever! How good is it? What's your true opinion. What's it like on the motorway (road noise, overtaking and power on demand etc). What's your TRUE MPG figure and what's it like to drive in general!?

Appreciate any replies. Thanks!

[SeventhLevel]

I have the pre-face lift Auris Hybrid Touring Sports (silly name for the estate version of the Auris!) and I like it. The interior isn't as plush or as modern as some cars but everything is laid out properly and it's a pleasure to drive.

The worst mpg I've had out of a full tank is about 53 mpg, the best being 63 mpg for a full tank (which I think was a motorway journey). There have been trips of around 6 miles where I've achieved 85mpg! It all averages out to around the mid-high 50's which I'm happy with.

On the motorway the road noise on my model is quite loud but with music on it isn't bad. Overtaking is easy enough, though I came from a 1.2 litre Ibiza. If I want to overtake quickly I'll pop it into Power mode and it's great.

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[eygo]

Hi

hybrids aren't sports cars so if you just want to floor it all the time buy your sr180.

when i had a CT200h summer months used to average around 58mpg long run 62mpg winter time 52mpg

although when you rev an early CT you do hear the cvt whine but it is only for a few seconds whilst you accelerate

then its a nice quiet drive,Oh and free road tax.

i now have a IS300h summer months 52mpg winter time 46.6mpg foot dowm and she shifts when in sport mode

£10 / year road tax dont forget this has a 2.5ltr petrol and the equivilant of 500cc from the motors so 3ltr in total

hence the name.

lexus servicing my next service a major, is going to cost £465 and an oil filter change is £245 , my next service

could of paid for your corsa C so servicing isn't cheap for these cars,changing the brakes is generally a dealer job

to complete as you can need diaganostic software to complete the change of pads as the brakes are brake by wire

so you cannot pump the brake pedal to push the pads back to the disc.

bsides the above i wouldn't hesitate to go hybrid.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Under Toyota's Fixed Price Servicing scheme, services for the Auris Hybrid are:

Intermediate service £169

Full service £219

Full+ service £279

There are some additional costs such as a brake fluid change (£39 every two years). See https://www.toyota.co.uk/caring-for-your-toyota/service-and-maintenance/car-servicing.json

Also once the Battery warranty expires, one can have an annual Hybrid Health Check (free as part of a service at a Toyota dealer or £39 if done separately) which checks the condition of the Battery and provides a 12 month/10,000 mile extended warranty on the Battery - https://www.toyota.co.uk/caring-for-your-toyota/service-and-maintenance/hybrid-health-check.json

[lilpopjim]

SeventhLevel:

That's really good MPG! I'd be more than happy with that. The car sounds decent though i'm more in the market for a Auris hybrid. being 21 years old i don't have a family/ need for a bigger car (at the moment at least). I'm used to a lot of power in cars so it's hard to drive a little 1.2 etc.

The SR180 i have now is okayish with the road noise. I find it's more dependant on the road i'm driving on etc. The same with your vehicle i suppose.

Thanks for you input!

 

Eygo:

I know they're not; it'll be hard to return to a smaller engine/ less power etc. as said to SeventhLevel i'm used to high powered engines etc. My first car (1.3 TDI corsa C) had plenty of torque. My 190hp Corolla has.. a lot of horses and this SR180 has everything! I'm a little spoilt as a 21 year old uni student..

That IS300h of yours is a real nice motor. Surprising it gets that good MPG with it's 2.5l engine. Saying that my mums old 3.4L hybrid got 36 which is the same as my 1.8L.

Why is the servicing cost so high? When i change all the filters/ oil and coolant etc it only costs around about £80 probably and hour half - two hours free time. That's a big cost! (to me anyway).

Yeah you're right there. My dad does Snap-On so we have all the diagnostics machines etc to flush/ prime the brakes through the ABS pump. I've done it on Discovery 2's.

I'll definitely think about it! Thanks for your help/ information.

 

Frosty:

As said to Eygo, why are services so expensive? You're paying for labour of course but it seems a lot more than what it should be.

That's very kind of Toyota.

Gahh i'm tied! A hybrid would be nice but to save up the necessary funds as a uni student would be difficult. I suppose i'm aiming to high for a decent car at my age. A plus point is that it makes me want to work to get the money!

 

The tradesman who's taking my car back has supposedly changed plan. He wants someone to try and repair it. So i'm not sure what's going to happen.

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards servicing, Toyota servicing isn't badly priced when compared to other marques. For example, our last two second cars (2007 Mazda 2 1.4 and a 2012 Hyundai i20) were both more expensive to service than my Corolla and later 2 Auris - approx £70 more for the intermediate and £100 more for the full.

For our 2015 i20, we bought a service package (not a service plan) which covers the first 3 services for £349.

The head gasket repair may not be successfull if the head is damaged - which is partly why Toyota replaced affected engines with modified units.

[eygo]

i did query this on a lexus forum and the difference in servicing costs apparantly is

If you can afford an expensive car you can afford the servicing costs also

the major service is about £100 more than a CT, why with the same checks being done on both of them

the IS doesn't require £100 more in engine oil ,and thats when i was told about the value of the car.

what is unfair about the statement is that a lot of lexus owners will have company cars i dont

i pay for my car and everything that goes with it,maybe this could be another reason why the charges are more

as companies wont query a service charge and just pay for it.

 

 

 

[lilpopjim]

To me Frosty, servicing from a main dealer is really expensive. Considering you can buy all the service items and check everything your self for a lot less. I'm not sure where the price comes from.

To be honest it might not be successful. I've heard, just like you said, that the engine IDEALLY needs a new head, block and pistons etc.  If the repair is successful i'll probably just flog it on. I bought the car for £3150 which is a lot less than any of the others i've seen. Equivalent SR180's are £4,000 upwards. Plus i have genuine Auris rubber mats and boot liner! 

Eygo:

That's very true. Older BMW's are cheap but the repair costs are substantially higher than a Ford for example etc.

That's much higher than your CT though.. What makes it more expensive? Other than the whole "Expensive car = expensive things". I know Toyota/ Lexus do checks on the cars, an example is the Battery health check Frosty gave us not that long ago etc and other bits and bobs but i certainly cant justify the price!

Obviously if the car is new you want full dealer servicing for resale value and peace of mind over warranty issues and what have you.

[eygo]

the car was registered september 2013 i bought it August 15 so about 20 months old

i dont know about toyota ,but i know with lexus they only sell approved cars on their forecourt

meaning it has to have FULL lexus servicing so when i come to part ex hopefully i could get a better price

knowing they can resell rather than the dealer having to pass it to a 3rd party who will want to make some

money on it as well,i dont think the traction Battery test will take long since it is only £39 its probably

plug the laptop in and let a test program run.

lexus do an essentials service which is a lot cheaper ,you dont get your service book stamped though

its called essentials as only the essentials are checked its a no frills service for car of 5yrs +

so up until then i will be fleeced.

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, lilpopjim said:

The tradesman who's taking my car back has supposedly changed plan. He wants someone to try and repair it. So i'm not sure what's going to happen.

Under the new Consumer Rights Act 2015 you don't have to accept that. If he thinks that it can be fixed (it can but not economically) let him take it back, fix it & sell it to somebody else.

[lilpopjim]

Yeah they only sell aproved used, Lexus cars anyway.

You should get a better price! Most definitely anyway. They do look after cars rather well; all the Lexus cars my dad has bought home etc none of them have gone wrong and run fine, never had any problems and neither should you!

I'm guessing with the essentials check they give you paper work as proof etc.

 

Heidfirst:

I'm not entirely sure where i stand with the guy to be honest. The car was advertised on eBay etc, but not bought through it.. The gent is a dealer however he supposedly sold me the car as.. well.. more private than anything. I do have paperwork from him etc as proof of sale; it has nothing about warranty so it works in my favour i suppose. Given he rejects the car and decides to repair instead of refunding it etc.

I asked him through eBay why he was selling on eBay instead of a at his dealership before i went to see the car; he said it was a new venture blah blah. My guess is that he tried to sell it through eBay which gave me less rights to reject the car and all that

What do you think? 

Link to ebay here: http://goo.gl/b7FQCU - bidding got to £2300 if memory serves me right.. Though i'm sure only one bidder was genuine out of the 4-5 total..

Thanks!

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards servicing, any dealer will have overheads to cover ( franchise contract, premises, equipment, staff, etc). Dealers don't actually make that large a profit on the sale of new cars - the profit areas are on things like finance, extras like gap insurance, servicing, to some extent used cars, etc.

Independent garages tend to have lower overheads.

As regards why people have their cars serviced at main dealers, reasons can be quite varied, but include maintaining the new car warranty, maintaining the extended warranty (where block exemption doesn't apply and the warranty provider can legally stipulate where the car is serviced), don't have sufficient expertise/equipment/room to carry out own servicing, prefer to pay professionals for servicing, prefer to keep the main dealer service history for resale or goodwill reasons, etc. Re warranties (whether new car or extended warranty), own servicing doesn't meet the warranty requirements.

[Heidfirst]

also, full dealer service history cars are worth more second hand than those without.

[Heidfirst]

2 hours ago, lilpopjim said:

Heidfirst:

I'm not entirely sure where i stand with the guy to be honest. The car was advertised on ebay etc, but not bought through it.. The gent is a dealer however he supposedly sold me the car as.. well.. more private than anything. I do have paperwork from him etc as proof of sale; it has nothing about warranty so it works in my favour i suppose. Given he rejects the car and decides to repair instead of refunding it etc.

I asked him through eBay why he was selling on eBay instead of a at his dealership before i went to see the car; he said it was a new venture blah blah. My guess is that he tried to sell it through eBay which gave me less rights to reject the car and all that

What do you think? 

Does the paperwork have company or VAT details on it or just or just Joe Bloggs ? i.e. does it look like paperwork from a business or a private seller?

I may be a cynic but the possibility exists that he knew that the car had a problem & that every time that he sold it through the business it would come right back  under the new Consumer Rights Act. You look out/stand up for for your interests/rights because nobody else is going to if you don't push it.

[lilpopjim]

Frosty:

It surprised me when i learned just how much the Lexus dealership made of their cars.. I thought it would've been a lot more! They do need to buy it off the factory and then to be shipped to the dealership though so it's understandable.

That's a lot of good reasons. I mean i've never bought a brand new car before; i probably wont for a good couple years. Thanks for clearing that up Frosty.

 

Heidfirst:

It's a bit of both really.. For example, the 'Name and Address of Seller' section, he put the name of his dealership/ eBay name 'KandECars'. K is the initial of his first name, E is the initial of his business partner from what i can gather.

It has he details of the car as well as a separate box as an 'Essential Checklist' etc. It's nicely laid out so it's not like the gent just whipped it up specifically for this sale; it's definitely a format he would use with customers. From what i've seen with my brother buying/ selling personal cars it's just a bit of written text on a piece of paper with signatures etc. So it's formal, basically.

Once the V5 comes through he said i can return it but he said change of plan; he might try and get it fixed etc. I'm not sure what to do really. Shall i let him attempt to fix it or just reject it and get a refund?

[MSHasan]

Hi Lewis,

Sorry to hear about the experience you're having with your SR180, had a similar thing myself a few years ago with a VW and a shot auto gearbox, dealer was very unhelpful, eventually part exchanged it with another car at another dealer who surprisingly didn't ask too many questions!

With regards to an Auris hybrid, you can get them for a lot less with more miles, I bought mine from a Toyota dealer, 69K mileage, 60 plate T spirit with all the bells and whistles, except satnav, last July for £7k all in, they even had a 0% finance offer for 3 years (which I did not take up in the end). Quick autotrader search suggests these are running more around the £6k mark at the moment.

The reason why I am not put off by slightly high mileage is that in my experience, having had a 07 Prius since 2011, bought with 80k on the clock, these hybrids are very reliable. As embarrassing as it may be, I bought the Prius without even test driving it (from a shady independent second hand car dealer no less!), which could of course have potentially been disastrous I admit, but it had full Toyota service history, which can be verified online. It has just passed its 5th MOT in my possession, with not a single advisory on any of them. The only non-routine servicing I had done was the replacement of the front brake pads and discs last year at a 105k miles. In terms of servicing, I just think of it as whatever is saved on road tax goes towards the servicing, so you end up even or maybe even better off at the end of the year compared to a regular car. The yearly warranty extension on the hybrid system after 100k also provides peace of mind.

In terms of real life MPG on the Auris, I do only London city driving, most trips being not more than about 5 miles each way, I get about 50 mpg in the summer and currently in this weather, about 45. So, although much lower MPG than what Toyota claim, it is not bad at all compared to a 'normal' car for the types of journeys I do.

Hope the issue with your SR180 comes to a satisfactory close and you can get on your way to searching for a new car. Keep us updated and do let us know if you have anymore questions. Best of luck :)

 

[lilpopjim]

Thanks for the reply M!

It's pretty frustrating with the hole i'm in at the moment. At least something is going to happen!

I only done a very quick search on eBay and a good Auris Hybrid was around £7,000. Maybe i'll do another search; If i can snatch one for £6,000 that'll be alright in my books. Especially with 0% finance.

I've heard that they're a real reliable car. A lot of taxi firms have them. I've seen a lot on eBay as well as youtube with well over 200,000 miles and they run just fine. Amazing really. You probably end better off at the end of the year. Especially with the fuel savings! Frosty also mentioned that with the extended warranty on the Battery. Definitely gives you peace of mind.

That's not bad MPG considering the distance you drive. i'm guessing for 2 of those miles the engine is constantly turning to get itself up to temperature etc; very good regardless!

I'm swaying more to get a hybrid but as said many times. I'm a university student so my budget isn't exactly high. I've been saying for god knows how long. With summer up ahead i may be able to pull enough money though the coffers to purchase one. Time will tell however. 

Again, thanks for the reply. Will keep this thread updated, despite it swaying a little from the topic at hand :-) Thanks!

[lilpopjim]

Okay a quick update.

Gent has offered to pay for repair, given i put £350 towards it. New gasket/ head skim or whatever it needs to get it done. It's being done by a Toyota technician (supposedly). I'll be dropping the car off tomorrow. 

To be fair the guy has been great he's not saying F**K off or anything or leaving me and the car to its demise so i give him credit for that.

The car has lasted 78,000 miles on it's current gasket; who knows on this new one but i'm not driving mega mileage; it should be okay.

At the end of the day it's still cheaper than buying a similar spec Auris SR180 so i'm happy to an extent. I've spent £60 on new wipers and new filters etc and some wind deflectors (the buffering is awful on this car) and i wont loose £170 worth of insurance deposit!

Good? I think so. (so far)

[Heidfirst]

Toyota say that these heads (& I think blocks) should not be skimmed, presumably that is why they did exchanges. That doesn't mean that they can't be though as I am sure that 1 or 2 people on here have had it done.

He is still asking you to contribute £350 towards work (& until they take it apart they won't even know if there is block damage from "gasket shuffle"). & again, replacing the gasket won't remove the cause of the problems.

I would reject it & get my money back but it's not my car/money so ultimately it is your decision.

[lilpopjim]

I think i've heard the same but i can't say for sure i have.

He is indeed asking for £350. He said he was quoted £800 for the repair; if it goes over he'll pay the excess so i'm always going to be paying £350. My mechanic whos been a personal friend to my dad since they were kids said about £800 to £1000.

It probably wont remove the cause of the problems etc but the car has lasted almost 80K miles on its current one. I know there's no telling how long it'll last for but with regular oil changes etc it should last a long time.

I'm not sure what to do to be honest.. The car cost me £3150.. i've been searching for this car for about 4 weeks in this trim with all the bells and whistles in a 3 door body. I still haven't found anything in similar spec on eBay.. Everything else is a 5 door etc. My car also retails (from what i can tell) for about £4,000 so i could get it repaired and just flog it off and make my money back + a little extra.

My dad said he'd be more inclined to have it repaired, so does my mrs. If i get another car similar to mine, for £4,000 i'd be stuck with a constant worry about it's head gasket blowing and along with another couple weeks or so to wait to find a car of similar spec/ quality (the car is immaculate inside and out (except a few car park dings))

To be honest mate.. I'm stuck with what to do... I'm a bit confused, possibly rushing into things and not 100% of anything.. I don't want to give up the car as i do love it loads comparing it to my 1.8 Corolla and as i got it cheap i can afford to loose a little as my budget was £4000 for getting a new car. It'll take me forever to find another car of the same spec but if i do i'm going to be worrying about the HG all the time. This car also had brand new injectors and water pump fitted by Mr.T late 2013.

[eygo]

cant you allow for any skimming with thicker head gaskets so this will maintain the compression ratio

 

[SeventhLevel]

Just to add - I drove from Keswick in the Lakes to Manchester yesterday and left it relaxed @ 60mph, achieved 67.8mpg for the 120 mile trip.

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[Konrad C]

Hi lilpopjim, I have been following your posts on the SR180 saga. So that you bought a nice car with a bad engine. By now you have discovered that the AD diesel engine has a reputation for blowing head gaskets, and the only repair is a head and block replacement! No head gasket replacement will be a permanent fix.

Read this: 

There are lots like this on the forum, but the poster was naughty and repaired the car and sold it, probably to some unsuspecting person! 

Scott is right in advising you to rejecting the car.

Another thing that is worrying, is you bought it from a seller who is a trader but trying pass off as private! that is how I read it -rogue trader. Also, he is trying to make you spend money on a fix that will fail after a time. I will repeat "The AD engine needs a head and block". Someone please correct me, if they have had a successful gasket only fix!

I would save up for the Hybrid and get it from a good source. Another option if you like the Auris is the 1.6 Valvematic. Reasonable performance and economy, with a reliable engine. Stick with manual and it should be 6 speed. If it is 5 speed, then it is the earlier vvti which okay, but is not as good (less power and revvy at motorway speeds. Quick search on Autotrader will show some good results, but beware, some ads are using Vmatic or Valvematic but the car is VVTI. The gear lever will show 6 speed as mentioned before, and the engine cover Valvematic.

 

[lilpopjim]

Hi Konrad,

Nice to hear someone is following the saga! as you put it. I have indeed bought a nice car with a bad engine.. It could be permanent, who knows really; there's no telling if it'll fail or not etc. I read through that post a couple weeks ago

I've heard that the engine needs a new block and head etc as well; i think you're right there. I'm just not sure what to do.. I think my love for the car is getting in the way of things..

I'm not sure where i stand to be honest with you.. His company name is on the paper work he gave me when i bought the car from him, at his house so in a way he has sold it through his business so to speak.. 

I dropped the car off to him yesterday so i'm not sure if work has begun on the engine just yet. I'm not sure what to do!!!!!!!! ARGHH. My dad knows cars etc and he said he's more inclined to get the repair done etc. Its lasted this long on its current gasket he says. My girlfriend says get the repair done etc and so does my mum.. I know they don't know as much as i do on the matter so they only see the basics of it all but are they wrong? are they right? I don't know..

I really want to keep the car because as said many times, it's immaculate inside and out, plenty of meat on the brakes and tyres were replaced all with the same brand not that long ago; they're pretty much new.. All the injectors were replaced along with a new water pump by Toyota not that long ago as well. Plus i got it cheap too.

I keep hammering on about it and blabbering on like a turkey i know. Sorry about that.

 

I have been thinking about a 1.6 valvematic but they're a bit out my price range at the moment. Maybe over summer after working a bit i'll get one. Thanks for your reply Konrad

[eygo]

can anyone please explain why the block & head have to be replaced,what damage does a blown head gasket

do to the engine,if it where on a petrol then generally a head gasket would be the fix why is it different on this diesel.