the dreaded engine check light (orange)

[bonjo]

All of a sudden the light came on today. Last time it did so (2008) it was at 45k miles and it cost me £250 to fix at the dealer- bank 2 sensor 1.

Now the light has come on again at 65k. Is this a joke or what!

How can I check if it is one of the 4 sensors and which one other than taking it to the dealer?

how regular are these check light occurrences?

thanks guys
 

[Grumpy stumpy]

£250 ! Ouch ! Way too much. Your best bet is to buy a cheap code reader around £10 off eBay, plug it in and see what code you get and what sensor it is. Then get a sensor and change yourself easier enough. £70-80 for sensor , go for a denso with correct plug on, then once changed reset code using your reader. These are quite common on these but otherwise really good for reliability. Cheap supermarket fuel and short journeys don,t help I do think. Code reader are so cheap now and worth investing in one very handy. You could always plug reader in and go for a reset and it may not come back on again who knows .

[redlew]

It is a difference of opinion that makes a horse race but I would disagree with your comments about supermarket fuel. If there was anything wrong with it, it would be the subject of investigative journalism and no win no fee lawyers would be suing . Bring on Aldi, Lidl & Netto  filling stations, say I. There is an interesting discourse here http://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?1515-Petrol-Quality/page9 . 

[Grumpy stumpy]

You probably are right as I don't tend to fill up anywhere special, just luck when the sensors give up the ghost , deffo wouldn't pay a dealer to change one of those though !

[firemac]

Good advice re the OBC reader. The light may not be related to sensors but the reader will tell you exactly what is causing the warning.

Supermarket pee is to be avoided at all costs IMHO. I will not spend anymore than I need to but I consider the few pennies extra for Shell or Esso, etc. to be money well spent. I can only speak from my own experience but the only RAV we owned that was run solely on supermarket petrol required several sensors plus a catalyst whereas the two we've had since, which were/are fed exclusively on branded fuel (and often V-Power/Nitro) have needed none at all. Same sorts of journies, same servicing dealer, only the fuel is different.

As for investigative journalists, judging by the garbage written about motoring matters in the mainstream press and the fact that most of them slum it in London, their only experience remotely associated with cars is hailing a cab.

[bonjo]

well tp my surprise after a couiple of days and few normal start ups, the light has gone out!

I 'll wait till the next service to see what the log says.

[Avalon]

Supermarket diesel comes from the same silo as Shell/BP/Esso, it's only the card swiped by the tanker driver that changes the additive package dispensed with it. Think of it like making orange squash, it's the same tap water, the flavour difference comes from Kiora/Robinson's/Tesco Value additive. I'm not saying the additive package doesn't make the characteristics of the fuel slightly different, but essentially it's the same product.

 

Buy a code reader or a suitable VCI/TIS lead and use a laptop, it's worth it.

[bonjo]

this is also my understanding of fuel distribution in the uk.

the basic grades are the same and supplied to all different forecourt suppliers. Each supplier then adds their own cocktail of additives at the time when the tankers fill up the petrol stations tank. (I remember few years back some silicon contaminated few of the supermarkets petrol with disastrous results for the motorists)

what I don't know is in case of petrol:

when is ethanol added to the fuel because different brand have different mix

starting with base 95 & 97 octane, How some brand extend 97 to 99 or 102
 

[bonjo]

well after a few months of cat & mouse play, with the light coming on for few days, then going off for a couple of weeks, I finally took the car for a diagnostics test (not to the dealer!)

faults were read and cleared but initially, it read P1135 (A/F B1S1 heater circuit). Is this the RHS sensor on the exhaust when facing the car and looking down to the engine?

From experience, is this most likely be the sensor itself rather than the heater relay, fuse, ECM, ....?

 

[Grumpy stumpy]

Yes mate standing at front looking towards windscreen RHS top sensor bank 1 sensor 1. Buy a good one with correct plug already fitted I.e. Denso around £80-90 and if you get yourself a sensor socket you can change yourself, straight forward 10 min , reset code with £10 code reader job done.

[Avalon]

So instead of spending a very small amount of money on a code reader and finding out what the problem was, you chose to ignore it for months?

Probably not the best idea for the sake of £10.

[bonjo]

thanks grumpy. This one happened at 65k miles. Interestingly the other A/F sensor (LHS) was replaced at 45k with the same heater fault! Wonder if it is an inherent product fault or a flaw in the toyota circuits design, not handling the heater properly. I also looked at Denso as it is OEM on this car.

I really didn't fell comfortable to tackle the job myself despite your comments about £10 code reader. Could have been a number of different sensors A/F, O2, MAF ... and also reading about instances of O2 sensors being a stuck and difficult to remove!

As it turned out there was more than one code (probably the old one still there!). Arrangement is when it is next lit, I take it back for a fault code read (no xtra charge) and then take it from there.

The reason why the fault did not trouble me is that it didn't affect the performance nor the mpg. Now I know the heater just heats up the sensor to its operating temperature quicker.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[Grumpy stumpy]

No problem mate, they can sometimes be hard to remove but I have just got the engine hot and they have come off ok but need a decent pair of gloves ! I had one on mine at 50,500 miles and now done 92,000 fingers crossed been ok but I do 23 miles to work each day so gets a good run. This seems to be the only problem with the petrol Ravs so not too bad really . Fifth gear apart mind.

[bonjo]

thanks again. possibly not enough longish journey may be the culprit!

I think once this is sorted out, in the future, I will do a check on the heater circuit to start with.

Would you know what resistance they should read and the pin out for the connector?

 

[Grumpy stumpy]

Only info I have it says if you think you have a faulty sensor use a meter to measure resistance between the two black wires on each sensor, genuine sensor expect about 4 ohms for bank 1 and about 15 ohms for bank 2 , open circuit = failed heater, hopefully might help you, 

[bonjo]

thank for the information. very useful.

After the garage reset, the light came back on and they read it as P1135. Waiting for them to come back to me with a repair solution and cost