Service requirements

[bathtub tom]

Booked my Yaris in for its second year service at a main dealer.

The service book states the brake fluid and pollen filter should be changed.

I was told they'd inspect both items and replace them if necessary.

Would it compromise the warranty if they don't change them?

[TomdeGuerre]

Nope, it won't compromise your warranty. When I went for my 2nd service I had already changed the engine air filter and the pollen filter because of Toyota's exorbitant charges and told them they didn't need to check them. They told me it was on the schedule, that they had to check them and that it would compromise the warranty if they didn't check them.

Interesting they're saying this about brake fluid now as well. I use an independent garage for other servicing etc and they don't automatically change the brake fluid on a calendar basis. They draw a sample of the fluid and analyse it and only if it is required, they change it ie if the fluid is contaminated by FOD or moisture. 

[Devon Aygo]

The pollen filter is checked every service and replaced when its deemed to be required and brake fluid change is every 2 years irrespective of miles.

[TomdeGuerre]

My independent garage doesn't change the brake fluid every two years unless condition warrants. Seems like a far more logical arrangement to me.

Garrett aircraft turbine engine manufacturers don't stipulate that engine oil must be changed at any specific interval either usage based (hours run) or by calendar, they draw a sample and subject it to spectrographic analysis then go by results. 

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, TomdeGuerre said:

Garrett aircraft turbine engine manufacturers don't stipulate that engine oil must be changed at any specific interval either usage based (hours run) or by calendar, they draw a sample and subject it to spectrographic analysis then go by results. 

My Yaris isn't likely to fall out of the sky with engine failure because of dirty oil!

[MEP's Yaris GS]

15 hours ago, TomdeGuerre said:

My independent garage doesn't change the brake fluid every two years unless condition warrants. Seems like a far more logical arrangement to me.

Not really, as they've not way of checking the entire system for any moisture ingress, the only way to be certain for sure is to change the fluid regardless.

[TomdeGuerre]

Yes, really. My independent draws a representative sample – and not necessarily from the master cylinder reservoir, although it wouldn’t bother me if he did. He checks it and decides whether it should be replaced. That’s logical, conservative and economical. Makes sense in my opinion.

The dealers broad brush approach of one size fits all doesn’t make sense ie the man who drives 7,000 miles a year is deemed to have the same service requirements as the man who drives 25,000 miles a year
 

[bathtub tom]

4 hours ago, MEP's Yaris GS said:

Not really, as they've not way of checking the entire system for any moisture ingress, the only way to be certain for sure is to change the fluid regardless.

I've done this test: http://tinyurl.com/jz8psfs on an 8-year-old car and got a reading of 0.1 on a recently bled brake master cylinder and 0.4 on the clutch master cylinder that had never been bled.

[bathtub tom]

It's back and they charged a couple of quid for windscreen washer additive AGAIN. Don't know where they put it, because there wasn't any space in the washer bottle. They also charged a couple of quid for a new key fob Battery - why? What's the point of only changing the Battery in one key fob? I sold my last car at eleven years old and that was still on its original fob batteries.

It's these stupid charges that are giving main dealers a name for sharp practices.

They've asked for feedback...................................................................

[FROSTYBALLS]

Why not challenge the charges when you picked the car up?

The Toyota dealer and the Hyundai dealer I use don't do this. Previously I have used dealers of other marques who charged for screen wash, but they soon relented when charges were questioned.

[Heidfirst]

My Toyota dealer neither charges for screenwash nor for fob batteries  (no way that either of my Avensis would make 11 years on the same fob batteries) as part of a service.

[TomdeGuerre]

In fairness to the dealers, there’s a lot of hidden costs involved in servicing too. When I worked in the garage many moons ago, mainly on rear wheel drive cars, we would routinely charge ¼ pint of oil to top up gearbox and rear axle. Sometimes we used more, sometimes less but we never charged any extra for other things like power steering and brake fluid top ups, anti freeze or missing valve caps for the tyres so the garage had to stand these costs. We used to go round the tyres and remove any sharp stones lodged in the treads too but I suppose that was factored into the price of the service. 

Re the remote batteries, the garage has to stock them, factor in the time to change them and costs like shelf life expiry, pilfering etc. You wouldn’t crib if you put your computer in for repair and they changed the motherboard Battery, would you?
 

[bathtub tom]

9 hours ago, TomdeGuerre said:

In fairness to the dealers, there’s a lot of hidden costs involved in servicing too. When I worked in the garage many moons ago, mainly on rear wheel drive cars, we would routinely charge ¼ pint of oil to top up gearbox and rear axle. Sometimes we used more, sometimes less but we never charged any extra for other things like power steering and brake fluid top ups, anti freeze or missing valve caps for the tyres so the garage had to stand these costs. We used to go round the tyres and remove any sharp stones lodged in the treads too but I suppose that was factored into the price of the service. 

Re the remote batteries, the garage has to stock them, factor in the time to change them and costs like shelf life expiry, pilfering etc. You wouldn’t crib if you put your computer in for repair and they changed the motherboard battery, would you?
 

Two hundred odd quid for an oil and filter change, pollen filter and brake fluid covers the hidden costs in my opinion.

The remote Battery isn't on the service schedule. If they reckon it may fail, then why don't they mention it when booking in so they can change both keys?

[MEP's Yaris GS]

18 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

Two hundred odd quid for an oil and filter change, pollen filter and brake fluid covers the hidden costs in my opinion.

The remote battery isn't on the service schedule. If they reckon it may fail, then why don't they mention it when booking in so they can change both keys?

It's hardly a hidden cost. It's clearly marked as included in the middle and top service.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/download/cms/gben/ToyotaFixedPriceServicing_tcm-3060-294039.pdf

Your other car which has its original key forb Battery, I take it that's full keyless entry also? Batteries in keyless fobs drain a lot quicker than standard remote keys.

At the end of the day you're free to go where you want, you seem to be the only one who thinks the dealer is mugging you off, and you're not forced to use them. If you're unhappy then you can always go elsewhere. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

We run two cars, and have consistently found Toyota servicing for our Corolla and two Auris, even with having to pay for maintenance options such as brake fluid changes, etc, to be cheaper than servicing for our second smaller cars (superminis from Mazda and Hyundai). 

The exception being the new i20 we bought in 2015 for which we bought Hyundai's servicing package (£349 for the first three years servicing).

[bathtub tom]

48 minutes ago, MEP's Yaris GS said:

It's hardly a hidden cost. It's clearly marked as included in the middle and top service.

Not in my service book it ain't!

Your other car which has its original key forb Battery, I take it that's full keyless entry also? Batteries in keyless fobs drain a lot quicker than standard remote keys.

Correct!

At the end of the day you're free to go where you want, you seem to be the only one who thinks the dealer is mugging you off,

Strange you should use the phrase "mugging you off". I made no suggestion it was illegal activity, perhaps you know better?

[TomdeGuerre]

2 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

Two hundred odd quid for an oil and filter change, pollen filter and brake fluid covers the hidden costs in my opinion.

The remote battery isn't on the service schedule. If they reckon it may fail, then why don't they mention it when booking in so they can change both keys?

I agree with you in many ways Bob, when you know what’s involved in a service you know you could do it yourself for a lot less and, we’d all like to think, do it better. And it’s very irritating to be nickel and dimed with these extra charges and all their BS. But they give you a free courtesy car or a nice waiting area with newspapers and magazines, free tea, coffee, hot chocolate etc even biscuits sometimes. They’ll even wash and vac your car for you.

Back in the day there was a lot more to a service. We were greasing the chassis points, stripping, cleaning, checking and re-packing wheel bearings, cleaning out brakes and adjusting them, doing points, plugs and tappets and other things that made up a service but there weren’t the modern freebies.

Another thing is the added value to your car of a full service history. I know you can get it serviced anywhere but if you’re under warranty and get it dealer serviced then you’re as close to fireproof as you can be if you need to make a claim. I did it with my last car a MMT Auris which needed a lot of warranty work and with this one I have the mysterious CVT box. Taking no chances there mon ami, they service the car (and I know they don’t touch the CVT) but if anything goes wrong I have the full document package.

And besides, you always have the feedback questionnaire to get even. 

 

 

[MEP's Yaris GS]

20 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

Not in my service book it ain't!

Your service book doesn't give you prices, and advise what's included in the dealers service product, the dealer does.

Your service book gives you a scheduled, a dealer provides a fixed price service product to meet or exceed this, if you don't want to go down the fixed price route then ask them to quote you for specific items as lined on your scheduled.

[bathtub tom]

Got an answer from the dealer:

One of the preliminary checks we conduct on the vehicles when they are first brought into our workshops is to operate the front and rear washer jets to check that their aim and volume of fluid to the front and rear screens is accurate and sufficient. Through checking this, the level will drop a little in the reservoir. After the service is completed a final inspection of all the fluid levels is carried out and topped up where necessary.  As we have used some of the reservoirs capacity in checking  this, we top up the screenwash so it is full for your use. The screenwash we use is a strong concentrated sachet/bottle that is 100ml volume. This is added to your vehicles reservoir to ensure a full washer reservoir when you leave from your service.

That took some thought!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Least they've come clean

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Least they've come clean

You'll be pun-ished for that.

[jstallan]

13 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

Got an answer from the dealer:

One of the preliminary checks we conduct on the vehicles when they are first brought into our workshops is to operate the front and rear washer jets to check that their aim and volume of fluid to the front and rear screens is accurate and sufficient. Through checking this, the level will drop a little in the reservoir. After the service is completed a final inspection of all the fluid levels is carried out and topped up where necessary.  As we have used some of the reservoirs capacity in checking  this, we top up the screenwash so it is full for your use. The screenwash we use is a strong concentrated sachet/bottle that is 100ml volume. This is added to your vehicles reservoir to ensure a full washer reservoir when you leave from your service.

That took some thought!

Good job I'm not paying for the services on my Series 3 Skoda Superb (company car) then. The garage are unable to sort the stream and direction of the washer jets due to what can only be described as a design fault. The last time they tried to resolve it they used 2 reservoirs worth of fluid and it still doesn't work properly!!