Aygo O2 sensor codes OBDII and Torque app

[tonyuk123]

Hi,

I have had the MIL light come on on the dash, i have tested with an OBDII bluetooth adaptor and Torque app on my phone

It originally had the error TID$01 CID$05 constant voltage rich to lean fail

Max 64 current 186

(or something very similar)

tried some cat cleaner as the internet seems to have a lack of info on these codes for aygo's

current value went down to 146

I monitored the sensors before and after cat and it seemed that the after one was erratic, plus the cheapest to replace, so i opted to change it

Reset the error and car seemed quieter and more responsive

But running the tests again, it still showed current value of said parameter was 146

i tried thrashing it a bit and taking it up to high speeds to try burn anything off the cat, and it went up today to 151 !

anybody know what the TID$01 CID$05 actually refers to?

I have monitored the temperature sensor and warms up ok, and sits dead on 84C when diriving normally, so i'm guessing that is ok

by the way, in between it having a dash fault, it has passed an MOT on emissions, which suggests the sensors rather than the actual CAT

Or just toyota limits being very tight

Any help and or advice appreciated, before i start spending on more un-needed things

[Devon Aygo]

The fault codes from your Torque app don't correlate with the system of codes used by Toyota, does the app have a cross reference chart or similar ?

[tonyuk123]

Sorry for late reply

Not that i am aware of, no charts

Since this post i have replaced the post Cat sensor, which improved the driving of the car quite a bit, the time for the light to return also increased, but eventually happened.

So i replaced the pre Cat sensor as the internet seems to say they age and slow down, this looked good on app after first changing(scope like readout of O2 sensors) but is still coming up with the rich to lean voltage (constant) error

now it sits at 157 (should be <64)

I have just take out and cleaned the MAP sensor, still seems to be the same after

Lights not on yet, but seems to be a matter of time if the codes/errors are anything to go by

 

[tonyuk123]

in case it helps, the error is

TID$01 CID$05

rich to lean  voltage threshold (constant)

current 157  max 64

what exactly is it indicating?

what units are the 'current' & 'max' in, volts? mA? or just an electronic number as reference?

what is likely to make it too high?

(it was originally 186, went down to 149 when i used cat cleaner in the fuel, since went up to 151 and then 157)

I have monitored the IAT and the MAP (which are done by the same sensor on the AYGO) and they seem pretty much what you would expect

both pre and post cat O2 sensors have been replaced

I was thinking it could actually be the CAT except it has passed an MOT whilst having the problem, which kind of indicates something other than the CAT, a sensor reading wrong?

 

 

 

[David Heidelberg]

Toyota Yaris 2005, engine has about 100 000 km, car 220 000 km.

 

I getting exactly TID: $01 CID: $05

Max: 77

Current: 181 (sometimes 170 etc.).

 

I also get P0420 after while (catalyst dead or second o2 sensor - lambda).

Real problem is, that car sometimes behave correctly (good noise when pressing gas pedal) and sometimes sounds higher pitch, has much more kW (it's like it goes from 50 to 30 kW), from red light I have to add gas. Sometimes it's perfect, it's not weather dependent (no wet or dry)... Thinking about replacing first o2 sensor

[David Heidelberg]

After disconnecting both O2 sensors, I still getting this error, maybe it's not related to O2 sensors?

[Xmas]

P0420 cat convertor system efficiency below threshold

That is the report from 2nd O2 sensor is bad so

cat bad

Or 1st O2 bad

Or engine not under control of 1st O2 are there any other OBD codes?

if you use the auto out of control range you can damage both 1st and 2nd O2 and cat

the 1st O2 controls the engine the 2nd O2 checks the whole system is ok.

try and borrow another O2 and replace 1st sensor if you have tools hope that fixes it

[David Heidelberg]

I added also O2 sensors data to previous post, anyway, it seems that first O2 sensor should give voltage up to 0.9V (at least by brief word from Toyota tech guy)... so now I'm driving with disconnected sensor, and performance is generally little weaker than in optimal state, but it seems stabilized (not good or bad performance, still in middle).

 

@XmasSo as you say, it seems CAT is 95% KO (also running LPG, so it maybe accelerated process of killing it), but my idea is there is maybe "wrong type" of lambda sensor installed... (but 1st O2 sensor has correct connector type, only 2st - after CAT - has connected wires)

[mickburkesnr]

I have the same error code on mine, although mine relates to the O2 Sensor after the catalytic convertor. The catalytic convertor I have is a cheap ***** no name brand from ECP which replaced the original cat when the pipe connecting the cat to the engine block cracked around the welding.

From my own research, and in my own case, it's more likely to be the catalytic convertor than the sensor as the sensors tend to be really top quality hard wearing stuff. Only way to diagnose the issue though is to change the sensor, then if the error comes back, change the catalytic convertor.

[Anthony Poli]

On 01/12/2016 at 2:58 PM, David Heidelberg said:

After disconnecting both O2 sensors, I still getting this error, maybe it's not related to O2 sensors?

Sensor 2 should change slowly compared to sensor 1.

 

[David Heidelberg]

Ok, so I slowly start thinking it's caused by vacuum line leak. I have no other explanation, why it happends only sometimes.

 

Only pattern I found is often when I drive for more like 100 km in line with about 5-15 stop-start engine, even before good performing engine start hesitate, lag and change sound. As I today read forums, it could be vacuum lines, which hasn't been changed when I replaced engine, so it make sense, why problem persist.

Also it could explain, why it happen only sometimes. Seems like some hose angle + maybe increased temperature cause leak, which after cooling down and pause sometimes disappears. Because ECU does some vacuum calibration, it could explain, why after reseting ECU it sometimes behaved better. But sometimes not (probably depending on position of hose).

+ Also it could explain not stable state of brakes, which requires sometimes more push and sometimes less.

 

[tonyuk123]

OK, my story so far (still not solved) in December it passed another MOT.

So i am thinking CAT must be ok, or at least not too bad.

my report is :

Test report:
------------------
TID:$01 CID:$05
- Rich to Lean sensor threshold voltage(constant)
Max: 64
Test result value: 200
FAIL
----

End of report.

This varies from around 140 to 210 depending if i drive like a teenager or an old lady on Sunday morning.

I have replaced after CAT Lambda O2 sensor, that made a big difference to how it drove.

Changed the before Cat Lambda O2 sensor, made a little difference to drive.

Cleaned the ICV (idle control valve) although i can't get it out, plenty of solvent in it for a few hours turn on and off ignition etc seemed to make it run better at idle

Air filter changed but has since got a fair bit of oil going into it again.

MAF/MAP sensor (mass air flow or pressure, which is also an air temp sensor) old one reads little lower than second hand replacement one on the test above (test results with newer one)

Replaced injectors, this made the car much better to drive.

But still the results above apply.

Have tried CAT cleaner, results drop a bit for a while, i assume because running rich it starts to clog the CAT again pretty soon after

I can only assume the CAT is ok, as it passes an MOT, which also means the exhaust system has no leaks too.

The second O2 sensor seems to run at around .75 instead of .47 all the time except when cold. has done during all of this (before changing sensors)  and still is now

Anyone got any other ideas?

 

[mickburkesnr]

Did you ever change the cat on the car? Is it the same one it rolled out of the factory with or is it a replacement?

[David Heidelberg]

After long thinking I came to conclusion it could be damaged vacuum hose.

 

Second possibility is something with breaks vacuum booster.

I got to this conclusion because LTFT sometimes changes from 3 up to almost 10, which signals it has to do different corrections of Air fuel every time.

 

Fact I drive gas+LPG combination excludes fuel pump and gas hoses... So only air leak, I guessing, can cause this..

 

Please let know, if you found some vacuum leak :)

 

P.S. Vacuum leaks, if I understood right, should be seen with bad low-RPM, but I guess that ECU is trying to fix that, so its not obvious at it could be..

[tonyuk123]

2 hours ago, mickburkesnr said:

Did you ever change the cat on the car? Is it the same one it rolled out of the factory with or is it a replacement?

Mine is original

[mickburkesnr]

I'm inclined to think the cat is the issue. You've replaced the front and rear O2 sensors and the issues still occur, so I'd think the bit in between the two is at fault. 

[tonyuk123]

10 minutes ago, mickburkesnr said:

I'm inclined to think the cat is the issue. You've replaced the front and rear O2 sensors and the issues still occur, so I'd think the bit in between the two is at fault. 

well it's a possibility, although quite a fail from what it should be, wouldn't it also fail emissions at MOT

Don't really want the hassle and cost of changing it and finding it makes no difference

 

[mickburkesnr]

I wouldn't think so. The materials are still present in the cat, but the channels could be blocked so the gasses don't pass through properly, causing a build up and the last O2 sensor to think "where's all the gas I'm expecting?". 

Try and find out whether it's a vaccuum leak first, but if you've changed everything then that's got to be the last thing.