Auris Touring Sports - Automatic

[skirmish]

Hi Everyone

I'm currently in the market for a medium size estate however I must have one with an automatic gearbox as my clutch pumping knee isn't quite as good as it should be.

My search had included the Focus and the Civic however I've also just realised that an Auris could be suitable too.

Obviously the Auris has a CVT gearbox and my initial thoughts are how reliable is such a system. I've already discovered that the Focus Powershift auto box is notoriously unreliable which means I'm staying well away from those. The Civic seems pretty reliable though so at the moment that is my preferred option.

Unless of course someone can reassure me about the Auris.

Any advice/information greatly appreciated.

David

[Cyker]

The Auris HSD Tourer might be a good bet; The HSD isn't just a hybrid system, it's probably the best autobox you can buy - No wearing parts mean it's super reliable and better than normal belt-driven CVTs IMHO.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Toyota CVT and Ford Powershift are different types of transmission.

The Powershift has more in common with the Multi Mode Transmission in that it is a semi-automatic, but with dual clutches

[skirmish]

Afraid I have to rule the HSD out on cost grounds. I'll be looking for a used car and the Auris seems to be around 2013 onwards starting at around £10,000 for one with decent mileage.

 

It's really the reliability of the CVT that I'd be interested to learn about.

[alan333]

The auto gearbox in the Civic I drove a while ago was an I-Shift, which is a manual box with an automatic clutch, similar to the Toyota MMT auto.  Personally I'd avoid it if it's still the same - they're dreadful.  Ford's Powershift dual clutch box seems to have it's share of problems, along with VAG's similar DSG box.

The CVT box in the Auris/Avensis seems to be very reliable, and it's been around long enough for problems to be apparent.

[Cyker]

The DSG is a really nice gearbox right up until it goes wrong then it's hell as it's so !Removed! expensive to fix.

It's a shame about the HSD Tourer; I mentioned it because I thought the Auris Tourer CVT was about the same age as the HSD one

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The second generation Auris hatchback went on sale December 2012 - petrol, diesel and hybrid.

The Auris Touring Sports went on sale In the summer of 2013 - petrol, diesel and hybrid.

[skirmish]

I think I got confused about the HSD as I did a search on Autotrader and it only showed one nearly new example. I've subsequently searched and and realised there are others.
Such as this

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201603222207122?postcode=HD9%207NW&body-type=estate&make=toyota&onesearchad=used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew&search-target=usedcars&sort=default&page=2&model=auris&searchcontext=default&transmission=automatic&radius=1500&logcode=p

Can someone please explain what is special about the HSD and its transmission type?

[FROSTYBALLS]

A starting point would be - http://blog.toyota.co.uk/how-does-toyota-hybrid-synergy-drive-work

[Heidfirst]

what type of driving & mileage are you looking to be doing in your new car?

[skirmish]

Thanks for the link about the HSD. While thew technology is undoubtedly very clever it also rather scares me with the potential to go wrong. I think I'd prefer to stick with a conventional 1.8 petrol.

Most of my driving is a mix of urban and countryside. I do about 8000 miles a year.

[TomdeGuerre]

You want to stick with a 1.8 petrol but you've ruled out the HSD? That's interesting.

Anyway, go ahead and buy a CVT if you like driving a car that sounds as if it's got a badly slipping clutch.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, skirmish said:

I think I'd prefer to stick with a conventional 1.8 petrol.

Which discounts the Auris.

[Heidfirst]

Avensis too big? 1.8 Multidrive-S seems very reliable. Only possible down side is it only comes with an EPB which may be an issue for some people & will be expensive to fix outside of warranty if the actuator fails. 

[skirmish]

6 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Which discounts the Auris.

Is that because all the 1.8's are hybrid?

If so then if I want conventional do I need to be looking at the 1.6?

[skirmish]

5 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

Avensis too big? 1.8 Multidrive-S seems very reliable. Only possible down side is it only comes with an EPB which may be an issue for some people & will be expensive to fix outside of warranty if the actuator fails. 

I wouldn't rule out the Avensis although I've currently got a Mondeo estate that's rather big and I'd prefer a reduction in size to something like the Auris. Can you please explain about the EPB?

[FROSTYBALLS]

32 minutes ago, skirmish said:

Is that because all the 1.8's are hybrid?

If so then if I want conventional do I need to be looking at the 1.6?

Engine choices from 2013 to Summer 2015 were: petrols 1.33 and 1.6; diesel 1.4; hybrid 1.8

From Summer 2015: petrols 1.33 and 1.2T; diesel 1.4 and 1.6; hybrid 1.8

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, skirmish said:

I wouldn't rule out the Avensis although I've currently got a Mondeo estate that's rather big and I'd prefer a reduction in size to something like the Auris. Can you please explain about the EPB?

The EPB (electronic parking brake) replaces the conventional handbrake lever etc. with a button on the dash & an electronic actuator & is the way that the whole industry is moving (they usually cite packaging & weight as the reasons) e.g. current VW Passat, Vx Insignia, Ford Mondeo, Mazda 6, Skoda Superb, new Kia Optima & Hyundai i40 all have EPBs.

The actuators can potentially fail if subject to water ingress* - on the Avensis there have been relatively few (e.g. VW seem to have had a far bigger issue) but they have occurred & it costs over £1k to replace. Toyota supposedly have addressed it in production (I believe by the 2012 facelift if not before). 

Also, by the facelift Toyota changed the behaviour of the EPB on new production Avensis, it now should automatically apply when the engine is switched off. On the manual transmission it also automatically disengages as the clutch is taken up but I don't believe that is the case in the CVT.

The Auris still has a traditional handbrake. Tbh the Hybrid sounds like it would suit your needs & is very reliable - hence why so many taxi drivers use them. I would try to arrange a test drive of one.

 

* see http://www.surreyelectronics.com/leaflets/TOYOTA%20AVENSIS%20ELECTRONIC%20PARKING%20BRAKE%20SYSTEM.pdf

[TomdeGuerre]

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Engine choices from 2013 to Summer 2015 were: petrols 1.33 and 1.6; diesel 1.4; hybrid 1.8

From Summer 2015: petrols 1.33 and 1.2T; diesel 1.4 and 1.6; hybrid 1.8

1.2Turbo........................ bah humbug. fancy doing away with a good 1.6 NA engine....... still fuming.

[Heidfirst]

5 minutes ago, TomdeGuerre said:

1.2Turbo........................ bah humbug. fancy doing away with a good 1.6 NA engine....... still fuming.

also the way that the industry is moving & Toyota has to compete. Potentially not so good for people (like me) who want to keep their cars for a long time though as it's more complication to go wrong down the line.

[FROSTYBALLS]

14 minutes ago, TomdeGuerre said:

1.2Turbo........................ bah humbug. fancy doing away with a good 1.6 NA engine....... still fuming.

My one neighbour has just bought a new Fiesta 1.0 litre turbo. Nice car, but he cannot get used to the stop/start system (he turns it off every time he gets into the car). They only use it about town - and the Jan 2010 Fiesta 1.4 they bought new and part exchanged, had only done 7000 miles.

[skirmish]

1 hour ago, Heidfirst said:

The EPB (electronic parking brake) replaces the conventional handbrake lever etc. with a button on the dash & an electronic actuator & is the way that the whole industry is moving (they usually cite packaging & weight as the reasons) e.g. current VW Passat, Vx Insignia, Ford Mondeo, Mazda 6, Skoda Superb, new Kia Optima & Hyundai i40 all have EPBs.

The actuators can potentially fail if subject to water ingress* - on the Avensis there have been relatively few (e.g. VW seem to have had a far bigger issue) but they have occurred & it costs over £1k to replace. Toyota supposedly have addressed it in production (I believe by the 2012 facelift if not before). 

Also, by the facelift Toyota changed the behaviour of the EPB on new production Avensis, it now should automatically apply when the engine is switched off. On the manual transmission it also automatically disengages as the clutch is taken up but I don't believe that is the case in the CVT.

The Auris still has a traditional handbrake. Tbh the Hybrid sounds like it would suit your needs & is very reliable - hence why so many taxi drivers use them. I would try to arrange a test drive of one.

 

* see http://www.surreyelectronics.com/leaflets/TOYOTA%20AVENSIS%20ELECTRONIC%20PARKING%20BRAKE%20SYSTEM.pdf

Thanks for the detailed reply and explanation.

One more reason that I'm drawn to the Auris is that it's got DAB as standard. My Mondeo has it and I've got so used to having 6 music in the car that I can't bear the thought of going back to just FM.

Are there any drawbacks to the Hybrid? Presumably there's quite a large and expensive Battery that's fitted. What is the lifespan of one of these and also what is the cost to replace?

[Heidfirst]

DAB is also standard on the Avensis from about Spring 2013 iirc.

The main drawback to the Hybrid is the extra additional initial cost.  Against that you get a quiet, serene driving experience with 55mpg+ but if you are a boy racer it won't suit you. 

There is a forum on here just for Hybrids where the regulars will be able to answer questions far better than I can. http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/forum/52-hybrid-toyota-prius/ .Suffice to say that  traction batteries aren't an issue - the warranty on those is 8 years/100,00 miles but there is also a Hybrid Battery Health Check (free with a service) that extends the warranty by 1 year/10,000 up until the car is 10 https://www.toyota.co.uk/caring-for-your-toyota/service-and-maintenance/hybrid-health-check.json .

[skirmish]

One thing that is confusing me is the auto box on the HSD.

Am I right in thinking that it's still a CVT? Or is it a different type of CVT compared to the non Hybrid type?

Cyker said " The HSD isn't just a hybrid system, it's probably the best autobox you can buy - No wearing parts mean it's super reliable and better than normal belt-driven CVTs IMHO"

[Heidfirst]

Sorry, I don't know enough about it - ask on the Hybrid forum. Or Google it - there seems plenty of articles e.g. http://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-is-how-toyota-prius-gearbox-works-video-63918.html

This may also help http://blog.toyota.co.uk/how-does-toyota-hybrid-synergy-drive-work . Btw Toyota hybrid is nearly 20 years (& now 4 generations old) so is proven reliable.