Beware the new BMW engine

[Ben565]

Just thought you ought to know,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/23p5j5wzPtYflS7kFvmKVZf/bmw-deny-engine-failures-are-due-to-manufacturing-fault

This the engine we now have in the new Avensis, BMW normally make very good engines. Unfortunatly the N47 wasn't one of them. Bet they were rubbing their hands all the way to the bank when they flogged them to Toyota.

Here's hoping Toyota have done some re-engineering on the engines they bought. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The timing chain issues with the BMW N47 engines is old news - the BBC Watchdog feature dates back to 2013 and affected engines were produced between 2007 and February 2011.
Problems with the N47 engine were subject to a production fix in March 2011. Also there was strong evidence to suggest that the problem engines were those on the extended service intervals - something which doesn't apply to the engines used by Toyota, which have the standard Toyota service intervals.

[Ben565]

Fair enough, looks like they fixed it then. A friend of mine who has BMW's (among other things) told me about it which is what made me look it up. 

Looks like a decent motor then compared to the old 2.0 D4D, more powerful and better economy, a little disapointing it is previous generation and not the latest tech from BMW, but still.... better than what we had and at least the kinks have been worked out by now. 

It's not a match for the old 2.2 D4D though in terms of power, torque, or performance. Economy was dreadful on that though, for me anyway, average 43mpg. They did the N47 engine in various flavours apparently including  163bhp which would still be very economical and a good  replacement for the old 150bhp 2.2 T-Spirit.

 

Temporarily downsized to an Aygo at the moment but planning on moving back up to a 2015 Avensis.  I'd be tempted to go for the new top spec 2.0 Diesel and chip the engine up a little bit to 160ish, ought to be a good balance of power and economy. 

[Heidfirst]

7 minutes ago, Ben565 said:

It's not a match for the old 2.2 D4D though in terms of power, torque, or performance. Economy was dreadful on that though, for me anyway, average 43mpg. They did the N47 engine in various flavours apparently including  163bhp which would still be very economical and a good  replacement for the old 150bhp 2.2 T-Spirit.

I agree that the 2.2 D4D typically returns 42-45mpg in mixed motoring for me in my 2 Avensis estates powered by it. However, remembering that in real world tests modern cars rarely get near the official laboratory test results I am not sure that an equivalent N47 would do much better - Honest John's Real MPG tests for BMW 3 series Touring don't appear to (320d ~46-47mpg) & it's a slightly smaller car. Unfortunately they don't yet have enough data for the 141bhp N47 Avensis to provide a Real MPG figure.

[Ben565]

Interesting, that's quite a bit less than what is claimed. I used to get 47mpg on the old 2.0 and 63mpg on a run, so at least it wasn't too far of what Toyota said it would do. Be interesting to see how it does in real world, same engine, different cars. 

[Heidfirst]

Or indeed same car, 2 different 2.0 diesels (1AD-FTV & the N47 variant). 

 

edited: 17/07/16 HonestJohn's RealMPG now showing 48.5mpg for the 2015> N47 2.0D Avensis saloon  & 43mpg for the TS - seems a big difference for the change in body style. The figures for the 1AD-FTV Avensis were 48.3 & 47mpg for the saloon & TS respectively.

[edgee]

hi guys

as 10yr owner of a Avensis diesel with 450,000 km on the clock , all serviced by Toyota main dealer

i also was surprised to hear that Toyota had gone with a  BMW engine in the new range of avensis

After a lot of reading about the issues the n47 and the timing chain issue, , i too was kinda convinced that this issue would be well addressed by now

with both BMW and Toyota ...

its finally time for me too move on get a new Avensis, after having  this car for 10yrs been used as a taxi with Virtually no issues except with what you expect to fail

So 2 days ago i pick up by chance a Toyota mechanic here in Dublin (from denis mahony m50)

i asked him about Toyota putting BMW engines in the new range of Avensis diesel (not mentioning anything about timing chains) 

And he tell me they have had one back already with a snapped timing chain , 

it was 1.6 diesel with only 2k on the clock !!!!!!!!!

He also said its a !Removed! of a job because the gearbox has to come out !

he siad maybe it was just a "once off"

Not good start to BMW/Toyota engine implant !

[FROSTYBALLS]

The 1.6 version of the BMW diesel engine has been used in the Verso since December 2013, and I would have thought there would have been reports of problems re timing chain failure in the intervening 2.5 years or so. Nothing seems to have been reported for the Auris and Avensis in the past year either. Nothing on Honest John or similar for either car.

[edgee]

Well that's reassuring news !!

i had already asked the service manager in my local Toyota where I get my service done and he hadn't of anything like that ......he siad not .so far 😉

[Bsail nestor]

My issue is the egr, any views

[333max]

There was a recall for the EGR valve. I had mine replaced by Toyota .

[Tomm5]

My egr valve blocked up too common problem with all diesel engines not just Toyota 

[Bsail nestor]

Thanks only bought this avensis 2.2 business edition, and parking brake system showing. Had diagnostic done turned out to be egr which was replaced by Toyota on recall, now my problem is  I have contacted 7 garages to fix, all quotes very expensive but no one wants to do the repairs as bmw engine very difficult to work on, car is still in the under warranty but Toyota says egr valve and cooler not covered, please help as now sorry I bought car,, had old avensis petrol for 15 years ,sorry I sold it

[Tomm5]

Well iv bad news I did reset with Battery power off and used my Amazon prime code reader to clear code p400 code which is problem so best thing I done was hand car back to fiance company and got 03 avensis petrol which is about 16years old plug in device check 03 avensis it perfect bought vvti for 500 quid very happy now no lights come on dash

[Paul055]

On 10/1/2020 at 7:48 PM, Bsail nestor said:

My issue is the egr, any views

there is nation wide recall for EGR . I have replacement from Toyota

[FROSTYBALLS]

Use Toyota's recall checker to see whether your car is affected - https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/vehicle-information/recall-checker

[2009joe]

why did toyota change there great 2.0 d4d 1adftv engines to the bmw n47 engine. sure those toyota engines are great the 1adftv would they not have just kept using the 1adftv engine 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota didn't have a 1.6 diesel to compete with other manufacturers in the European market. The BMW engines provided a short term fix for them, being available in 1.6 and 2.0, before they extended their range of hybrids.

[yossarian247]

The 1adftv didn't comply with Euro 6 emissions limits. Toyota presumably either thought it couldn't easily be made to comply, or alternatively the cost of modifying it to meet Euro 6 wasn't justifiable when they could easily buy in an engine from another manufacturer as a stopgap. As Toyota have now totally stopped fitting diesel engines in cars in favour of petrol electric hybrids it wouldn't have been worthwhile developing a new series of small diesel engines in-house. 

[Cyker]

Yup, that's it basically - they saw the writing on the wall for diesels, and decided it wasn't worth ploughing more money into it so they did a deal with BMW; Swap hybrid tech for diesel, so they still have a diesel offering, but could put that R&D money into hybrids, EV and hydrogen.

I don't think the japanese ever liked diesel anyway - They like their high revving petrols!

When I had my Yaris D4D I was surprised it could rev up to 5500rpm rather than the 4k you usually see - I always used to joke that only the japanese could make a high revving diesel

[2009joe]

22 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Toyota didn't have a 1.6 diesel to compete with other manufacturers in the European market. The BMW engines provided a short term fix for them, being available in 1.6 and 2.0, before they extended their range of hybrids.

short time fix until goes bang. tbh i cant see these Battery cars been much use. costs way more to make and causes more damage to the environment digging up lithium to make those battery's and plus those Battery cars dont last as long so when they break like phones battery's they go into land fill causing more pollution 

[2009joe]

12 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yup, that's it basically - they saw the writing on the wall for diesels, and decided it wasn't worth ploughing more money into it so they did a deal with BMW; Swap hybrid tech for diesel, so they still have a diesel offering, but could put that R&D money into hybrids, EV and hydrogen.

I don't think the japanese ever liked diesel anyway - They like their high revving petrols!

When I had my Yaris D4D I was surprised it could rev up to 5500rpm rather than the 4k you usually see - I always used to joke that only the japanese could make a high revving diesel

well i bought a clean 2014 2.0d4d toyota avensis business edt i hope it will  be a long long time before doing away with diesels . i hope i get the chance to drive this car into the ground . i was looking at those petrol hybrids there dear enough to buy for all u get 

[Cyker]

Yeah, just stay away from cities and you should be okay for a while; Older diesels are still more reliable than petrol engines - just avoid newer ones! The Avensis is a nice car - real nice place to be in. Just make sure you give it good motorway and A-road runs regularly! The early 2.0D4D 1AD engines have some known problems but fortunately your one is a later model which had fixes for them (Yay for kaizen!) so it should last like you'd expect a Toyota engine to last.

If I had a choice I'd have kept my Mk 1 Yaris D4D forever - Cost me £3k and is still my favourite car - Incredibly reliable engine, high revving for a diesel, spades of torque all the time, variable geometry turbo, had a sunroof AND AC! It was the last of the really reliable diesels; No DPF, no Adblue, no 5th injector to flood the sump, no dual-mass flywheel, just the EGR which was the only thing that caused any problems!

Alas as I work in London and they are introducing their ULEZ penalty tax this October, it just wasn't viable to keep running it as it would have added something like £3000 a year to the running costs and I wasn't willing to give such money to that scumbag mayor when his party were the ones that convinced me to get that car in the first place!

Grrr still triggers me just thinking about that!

Thankfully the Mk4 Yaris Hybrid I have now is pretty awesome, if a bit noisy if you really push it. At least now the noise is backed up by some shove unlike the previous one! They are really expensive for what they are tho' I do agree - The new ones in particular have had a big price spike over the old model, and had my dealer not smegged up the petrol Mk2 Yaris I'd switched to before, I probably would have waited a few years for the price to drop before getting one. As they did offer full scrappage value for the Mk2 and discount the cost of the work that didn't fix the Mk2, it felt like the least bad option.

It's good enough that, if they rescinded all these diesel penalties, I'd probably not switch back. Compared with, if I still had the Mk2 petrol, I would have immediately sold it and bought my Mk1 D4D back!  

Do miss driving a manual tho'!

[2009joe]

15 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, just stay away from cities and you should be okay for a while; Older diesels are still more reliable than petrol engines - just avoid newer ones! The Avensis is a nice car - real nice place to be in. Just make sure you give it good motorway and A-road runs regularly! The early 2.0D4D 1AD engines have some known problems but fortunately your one is a later model which had fixes for them (Yay for kaizen!) so it should last like you'd expect a Toyota engine to last.

If I had a choice I'd have kept my Mk 1 Yaris D4D forever - Cost me £3k and is still my favourite car - Incredibly reliable engine, high revving for a diesel, spades of torque all the time, variable geometry turbo, had a sunroof AND AC! It was the last of the really reliable diesels; No DPF, no Adblue, no 5th injector to flood the sump, no dual-mass flywheel, just the EGR which was the only thing that caused any problems!

Alas as I work in London and they are introducing their ULEZ penalty tax this October, it just wasn't viable to keep running it as it would have added something like £3000 a year to the running costs and I wasn't willing to give such money to that scumbag mayor when his party were the ones that convinced me to get that car in the first place!

Grrr still triggers me just thinking about that!

Thankfully the Mk4 Yaris Hybrid I have now is pretty awesome, if a bit noisy if you really push it. At least now the noise is backed up by some shove unlike the previous one! They are really expensive for what they are tho' I do agree - The new ones in particular have had a big price spike over the old model, and had my dealer not smegged up the petrol Mk2 Yaris I'd switched to before, I probably would have waited a few years for the price to drop before getting one. As they did offer full scrappage value for the Mk2 and discount the cost of the work that didn't fix the Mk2, it felt like the least bad option.

It's good enough that, if they rescinded all these diesel penalties, I'd probably not switch back. Compared with, if I still had the Mk2 petrol, I would have immediately sold it and bought my Mk1 D4D back!  

Do miss driving a manual tho'!

that 5 injector you are talking about its in the 1adftv engine but its in the dpf so incase of small runs it will get the dpf up to temp to clean it out with the 5th injector. i hear they clog up but not sure. i was chatting with a taxi guy he had a 2014 toyota avensis 2.0 1adftv engine and he said never gave any bother and think he said he had 250k on it.tbh the only things that bothers me is the u have to rev the ******* out of the car in lower gears at taking off to get up unlike my vw 1.9tdi miss that as it had low end torque plus that push button handbrake is juat a pain as when if was on a hill just miss the handbreak 

[Coco22]

Hello, just wondering if anyone can offeradvice please. I have a 2016 Toyota Avensis 1.6 diesel Luna car. There's approximately 115,000kms on the clock. Unfortunately, there's a BMW engine in it. I had the EGR cooler replaced, due to recall recently. Shortly after this, 4 amber lights appear on the dashboard (not sure if it's related or not). Have asked the question to Toyota Ireland but getting nowhere. Had a diagnostic done by Toyota and apparently the lights are due to turbo sensor fault which can be replaced, however, 'if the bolt breaks' while doing this job, then a manifold will need to be replaced...and also DPF filter would need to be checked. If there's an issue with that, when all is done I'm being quoted 2700euro!! I've been advised anecdotally the problems won't stop there. Car is well serviced by a reliable mechanic (not by Toyota albeit, which Toyota are hiding behind). Any suggestions please? Has anyone else experienced this issue?