Avensis 2.0 D-4D vs 2.2 D-4D (2006-2008)

[doodleddrives]

So I don't quite have my Avensis yet but hoping someone in the know might help me with some fine pointers.

I'm updating my ancient Nissan Primera 2001 estate and I think the Avensis Wagon 2006-2008 is the best option out there (similar dimensions but newer). The 2.0 D-4D models are everywhere and I like this because it should make servicing/repairs cheaper. However I hate black interiors which narrows my options. A 2.2 D-4D has just come on the market nearby with a cream interior and I'm tempted.

My question is, though, is the 2.2 D-4D a completely different beast mechanically or does it share many parts with the 2.0 D-4D as Toyota's traditionally do. I just don't want to be in a situation when my garage says "Ah, yes sir but this is a 2.2 D-4D so therefore your replacement exhaust will cost four times as much as a 2.0 D-4D" type of thing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated and then I can be a legit Toyota Owner Forum member ;)

[Alfredo Garcia]

I will be interested in this topic, I am also looking for almost identical cars, I also briefly considered the t180 however I think the potential risk of some failure (injectors or head gasket) has scared me way from the t180. Which is a shame because there is one near with 80k on the clock. I have no personal experience of toyotas. I just like the size, economy, tax etc. I need a larger car because the kids take up too much space now they are teenagers.

[Heidfirst]

The AD series engines (1AD=2.0 & 2AD=2.2) are related designs. You should be aware of the potential issue of head/heagaskets problems with these - it affects a small % but is very expensive to repair properly (probably more than the market value of the car) & Toyota's extended goodwill offer for the problem is probably no longer applicable to any T25 Avensis due to the 7 year limit. The 2.0 probably suffers from it least as it seems to increase in likelihood with engine power but it also has noticeably poorer acceleration.

The T25  2.2. uses different hubs/wheels (PCD is 5x114 rather than 5x100) & therefore also some different brake parts from the other petrol & diesel Avensis T25s.

If you plan on keeping the car a long time (have you had your Nissan since 2001?) I would suggest looking at a late (2007/8) 1.8 petrol or even an early T27 1.8 (the T25 will give you more toys for the money though). No DMF, turbo, intercooler, high pressure common rail injectors etc. all of which are expensive to replace on a diesel & fuel economy is surprisingly good - probably ~39/40mpg depending upon your usage.

 

[doodleddrives]

Thanks Heidfirst - you echo what I have been reading elsewhere but was not clear if it was just the T180 that was the bad Apple or all D-4Ds. Finding a petrol version with a light interior is like a needle in a haystack (if you also take into account my weird desire to avoid black cars - had a black BMW with a black interior and hated it - inside was depressing and the wife said I looked like a drug dealer from outside!!!!!) but I don't want to be sitting on the hard shoulder admiring my cream dashboard while white smoke wafts out from under the bonnet!

I also lean towards diesels because I have to move heavy loads from time to time and they give me the oomph when fully loaded that petrol engines often lack.

I got the Nissan when it was 7 years old (150k miles) and have pretty much replaced everything under the bonnet in the last 100k miles. Replacing the engine was my fault (timing belt!) but as I live in Poland it cost about 300 GBP including a second hand UK engine. But it seems with the Avensis I might end up having to replace the engine on a regular basis ... ?

The Nissan is brilliant (despite all the replacement parts costs) but the rust can no longer be held at bay!

[doodleddrives]

Actually - just trying to get this straight in my own head. If I find a Avensis where the service records show the head / head gasket issue have been repaired by Toyota does that mean 'problem solved' or 'problem solved for the moment but might repeat'?

[Heidfirst]

Hi Tim,  I know what you mean - when I bought my T25 2.2 TR Tourer I actually had a better deal offered on a Vx Vectra Elite estate which also imo drove better but I couldn't face the thought of spending hours in somewhere that resembled a coal cellar!

Diesels have more torque low down, petrols you have to use the higher revs - it's just a different style of driving.

The issue potentially affects all 1AD/2AD engined Avensis for production up until & including February 2009. As I said there is a possibility that the more powerful the version the more likely it is for the problem to develop, so T180s may suffer more than 150bhp 2.2s & those more than the 2.0 1AD D4D. Best guesstimate (for only Toyota know the real figures & they are unlikely to tell) is that it is (probably well) under 5% of the whole series that develop the problem. I don't know what the situation is in Poland - at 1 point it was said that the quality of UK diesel was partly/wholly to blame so is the H/HG also a known issue in Poland?

In the UK there have been occurrences of people having had 1 repair having it fail again. However, Toyota also shifted from dealer rebuilds to factory exchange units minus ancillaries - whether due to the economics of the numbers involved or because dealers were finding it hard to achieve factory rebuild quality I don't know. (it's not just a case of a head/block skim & a new gasket - indeed Toyota say that these should not be skimmed although some people have)

I don't know how the economics of diesel/petrol costs are in Poland but I still think that once you are out of warranty for long term retention a normally aspirated petrol is a safer move than any modern common-rail turbodiesel.

[doodleddrives]

Have to admit I am a little dated in my view on petrol engines, haven't had one since I ended up with a tin can Astra for a month in 2002!

Well looks like the Avensis diesel is out the window - just too risky. In this class (Avensis / Passat / Audi A6) diesel is the dominant variant in Poland which, when you want to avoid black inside and out, makes it tricky. However this isn't urgent - summer is here so the drafts from the Nissan's rust holes will be refreshing - I'll wait it out for the moment and see what comes onto the market.

Thanks again for all the detail.

[Artiom]

I have an Avensis from 2005 (54 reg) with 1CD-FTV engine. Bought it with 106k miles and didn't had any serious issues for 2 years. I love it's torque and driving comfort. As far as I know, the issue with Toyota engines started with with T27 model, and my car shouldn't be affected.

About the interior colors - its a matter of personal taste, but I had bad experience with a "cream" interior: I was looking for the second car for my wife and we saw an Auris with a light cream interior - it was beautiful on photos, but when we looked closely at it during test drive - we noticed a lot of marks and spots, as any little touch or drop will leave a mark on it. We ran away and chose a full black leather interior which now we have on both cars and we are perfectly happy with them - anyway during driving we look outside and not inside of the car :)

Edited April 27, 2016 by Artiom
wrong engine model specified, sorry.

[Heidfirst]

21 minutes ago, Artiom said:

I have an Avensis from 2005 (54 reg) with 1CD-FTV engine. Bought it with 106k miles and didn't had any serious issues for 2 years. I love it's torque and driving comfort. As far as I know, the issue with Toyota engines started with with T27 model, and my car shouldn't be affected.

No, it started with the change to the AD engine series in the T25 (& RAV, Auris etc.) but on your car you are right - your CD engine is pretty much bombproof as long as you change the belt when required.

[Artiom]

11 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

No, it started with the change to the AD engine series in the T25 (& RAV, Auris etc.) but on your car you are right - your CD engine is pretty much bombproof as long as you change the belt when required.

Yes, you are right, the issue is present for AD engines. I was thinking that they were first used in T27 models - did not know that T25 can have an AD engine as well.

[Heidfirst]

Iirc 2005 for the 2AD (2.2) & 2006 for the 1AD (2.0).

[doodleddrives]

I'm bumping this just for a bit of clarification if possible. There is an Avensis 2.2 D-4D from December 2009 (T270) for sale close by - with a light interior!

But how can I figure out if the engine is a 2AD - Wikipedia lists the engines for the T250 but nothing for the T270. Or, as Artiom said, are all T270s affected as well. Any clues much appreciated!

[Artiom]

12 minutes ago, doodleddrives said:

Avensis 2.2 D-4D from December 2009 (T270)

Pretty sure it is a 2AD engine (2AD-FTV or 2AD-FHV). Not sure about 2CD, but I can tell the difference between 1CD and 2AD just by their sound - 1CD sounds more like a tractor, while 2AD is quieter and has much more smooth sound.

[doodleddrives]

Thanks Artiom - need to ding myself for an unnecessary question! Wikipedia has pages related to the AD engines here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AD_engine

So the 1AD was used in the Avensis until 2012 and the 2AD until 2015. If the issue affects all AD engines then the T270 is just as risky as the T250 :(

 

[Artiom]

Have a look at this post. I am not sure if I interpret it correctly, but it seems that the affected 2AD engines in Avensis were manufactured between Apr 2005 to Feb 2009, so there is a great chance that the car you found is okay. Also it happens on a relatively low percentage of engines. Don't forget about the "survivor effect" - people tend to post on forums when they have the issue, but the ones who don't have issues just carry on and do not post anything. I am worried about my Auris as well, but if it will last for another year or two - it will completely pay off, as this engine has an amazing performance for it's price.

All cars may or may not break - it depends on the driving style, roads, maintenance and a bunch of other factors, so it's up to you to decide. For me I decided to enjoy while I can, and to sort out the problems as they come :)

[Konrad C]

Artiom is correct about forums and faults reported. I have mentioned before, how many cars of the cars actually have the problems? probably a small percentage.

Look at the following link: 

 

I am looking for the post which stated when each engine 1ZZ and AD engines had modifications that cured the oil burning/head gaskets issues.

I think that the Mk3 Avensis AD engines were modified and there has been hardly been any big problems so far.

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, doodleddrives said:

I'm bumping this just for a bit of clarification if possible. There is an Avensis 2.2 D-4D from December 2009 (T270) for sale close by - with a light interior!

But how can I figure out if the engine is a 2AD - Wikipedia lists the engines for the T250 but nothing for the T270. Or, as Artiom said, are all T270s affected as well. Any clues much appreciated!

As far as I'm aware the 1AD and 2AD engines were used in the Avensis through to the summer of 2015.

1AD and 2AD engines built after February 2009 had production modifications to cure the potential head gasket/oil consumption issues of previous engines.

In the case of an Avensis first registered in December 2009, it is not the first registration date you need to be aware of, it is when the car/engine was built - so the production date.

Would have thought a Toyota dealer would be able to determine either the production date, or, if the car was built before the end of February 2009, whether the car has had a replacement engine due to head gasket/oil consumption issues.

When the current facelifted Avensis came out in the summer of 2015, the diesel engines were the 1.6 and 2.0 sourced from BMW and are designated 1WW and 2WW.

[Heidfirst]

If it is a 2.2 T27 it will be a 2AD. There have been a few head/gasket failures on early build T27s (they started building launch stock ~September 2008 afaik) reported on here but after the production fixes the AD series seem to be as reliable as any modern common rail turbodiesl (& tbh probably more reliable than some other brands which have their own issues).

[doodleddrives]

Hmm. As I understand it a Toyota VIN number will tell you the production year but not the month and so I won't know which bit of 2009 it was built in! A Toyota dealer might be able to do something more accurate than that but the car I have in mind is being sold by the only Toyota dealer for miles around. aaargh!