Cooling system nightmare

[Mookie78]

Hi all,

I'm wondering whether any of you might have some advice.. I'm definitely not mechanical but can understand the gist of things so please bear with me!
 

So, it all started when my celica had a very deep roar coming from the exhaust - I took her to ATS and the exhaust pipe had snapped - it was the original so pretty good going from 2001.  Got that and the cat replaced.

During this time the heating in the car went and I had a knocking from underneath the accelerator pedal.

Took the car back, they replaced the cat and the gasket behind the accelerator pedal - the only thing being that the gasket was a bit too big (god knows why, they said that they ordered the right one) and wouldn't fit properly so they repaired it with extra long bolts (I'm not entirely sure what this means in terms of effecting the operation of the car..).  The car had an air lock, which they fixed and they replaced the pipework as they said that this can sometimes have leaks which could have caused the air lock.

The engine light kept coming on, and they said that the air leak probably affected the mix in the engine which caused the light to go on.  They got rid of another air lock.  The engine light was going on after they reset it for probably 3-4 weeks.

The last time it came on again, took it back and the coolant was being lost from the engine but they couldn't figure out where it was going.  They put sealant in the car, all was well, no further problems.

Last week, the heating began to be intermittent again, and the engine light was back on.  Took her back to the garage and they now say that she's losing oil, water and coolant and they don't know where it's going.

They don't have the equipment to do any head gasket/heater core issues so I'm taking her somewhere else to get checked over tomorrow.  They also don't have a pressure machine which I would imagine would limit their investigative abilities in figuring out where the leak is.

I looked at the oil just over a week ago and it looked normal, no milkyness, no white steam coming from the exhaust although the garage have said that she's losing a lot of moisture from the exhaust.  They also said that half of the radiator is getting hot, the other half, it's not circulating at all.

I love my car but if it's over £500 in repair, I can't afford it right now - I'm taking it to another garage tomorrow to see if they can test it and figure out what the issue is but any insight would be very much appreciated as a few places I know will want to just replace everything without really knowing what the issue is, and this will very likely take the price above what I can afford to rescue her.

Thanks in advance for any advice! 

 

 

[Mookie78]

Ps... I should also say that although the radiator fan seems to be working hard, the engine itself hasn't been overheating, which is another thing that's foxing me.  I mean, the radiator fan can be efficient but would it really keep the engine cool for 15-18 mile run with no coolant, oil or water?  Confusion. 

[armoredfist2002]

 

which model do you have, 140 or 190 engine.

some 140 models suffered with oil problems, but you will smoke coming from the exhaust if this is the case.

 

Sounds like your coolant loss is from the radiator which is a common problem, usually from the bottom corners and very hard to detect.

Get that changed and some new coolant. Also sounds like from what you've said they have put leak repair stuff in the radiator which you should never do as it can cause blockages in narrower pathways inside the radiator and engine block.

Radiator can be bought from eBay for about £35, most members on celica club are using these and all seem to like it considering the price you'll also need 2x 5litre bottles of pink coolant from your local toyota dealer for about £80, you must only use the pink, don't use blue or red.

There should be a sticker under the bonnet on the bleeding process.

Don't need to be very mechanically minded to change the radiator, just need a few hours and quite some time to bleed the system.

 

As for the engine code you need a code reader to read the code to know where to start looking not just guessing which it seems the garage is just doing.

If the exhaust is leaking somewhere then it can cause the o2 sensors in the exhaust to read wrong which can throw up a engine light, but it could also be a fault with sensor, these usually need changing between 60-100k miles as they are a serviceable item, but not many people know this.

[Mookie78]

Hi Colin,

Thanks so much for replying :) I have a 140 engine.

I've had to fill the oil probably once a month since I got it as it ran out pretty quick, I'm not sure if that's normal, but I hadn't seen any smoke coming from the exhaust.  That was had crossed my mind re the sealant and the radiators, I'm not sure how often or if at all the system's been flushed so theoretically there could be a lot of gunk in there. 

Is it really not that complicated?  Seriously the only things I've ever done are top up oil, check tyres etc.. though I would like to give it a go I'd be worried about damaging anything! 

I'm going to the garage with a friend tomorrow to get them to look at it, so I may well ask them for the code that they get so that I can go online to check it. 

I think you're right that the garage just put sealant in and hoped for the best, they kept mentioning the dreaded words 'head gasket'.. which obviously scared the bejesus out of me!!

Thanks for your help and advice Colin, you're a star!  :)

[armoredfist2002]

Sounds like you have oil burning issues, be careful and always check your oil level regularly, the more oil it starts using your going to want to be checking the oil every week, otherwise it's a new engine if you run out of oil

Here is a link to a topic on another celica club, regarding oil burning issues with a 140 engine, definatley worth a read to keep you informed. You may need to register to view but it's free, but are limited to where you can post with a free account.

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/125889-boughtlooking-at-a-99-02-celica-140-gen7-read-this/

lots more members to answer more complicated questions if you need anything if the future, I am a member with the same username on there.

 

It should be an easy job to change the radiator, the hardest part is bleeding, if your not sure then don't do it.

 

I wouldn't even consider looking at the head gasket, these are very rare to go, it's usually the radiators, and for the price it would be my first call. Thing is due to the age of the car the radiator will need replacing at some point anyway. On the other club posted in the link above in the last 2-3 years a lot of members have had to change their rdiators.

[Mookie78]

Once the warning light came on I check it pretty regularly, I'm one of those that gets jittery if the petrol tank is only a quarter full so *fingers crossed* it's unlikely to happen! 

Ah perfect - I'll have a read up and see if there's something I can do with it re the oil.

I have a friend who's happy to change me with the radiator, it's the bleeding bit I was unsure about but I'll read up and see if I can figure it out!

I did think that when he said it re the head gasket, whilst I've heard that they can go, I've read that it's also pretty unlikely.. but you know, famous last words and all that! 

Interesting that a lot of folk have had to change them in a similar amount of time - it would make sense with cars around the same age for sure!
 

Thanks again Colin, your help is much appreciated and has de-stressed me somewhat!  :) 

[Scarlett Arrow]

Colin, I'd be interested to know why you shouldn't use "Red" coolant, as that was used by the factory in Japan. I would have thought five litres of concentrated coolant, topped up if necessary with de-ionised water would be far cheaper than 10 litres of Long-Life.

[armoredfist2002]

As far as I was aware you couldn't buy Toyota coolant in concentrated form, and I was always told pink was used in the celica engine and not the red

[Mookie78]

Hi again!

I've had her checked by another garage - who weirdly also don't have pressure testing equipment, is that normal?  This is a fully functioning garage but I'm not sure if this is the usual as I've never had to ask specifically before.

This garage have said that they can see the radiator leaking so it's definitely that, and they're happy with me ordering the part which is considerably cheaper - could I check with you guys whether the one I'm looking at would be ok?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-RADIATOR-TOYOTA-CELICA-1-8-PETROL-1999-TO-2006-FOR-MANUAL-VEHICLES-/281070187314?fits=Car+Make%3AToyota|Model%3ACelica&hash=item417116b332:g:wF8AAOxyeZNTTOFD

It says that it fits the car and is in the price bracket that Colin mentioned but any advice would be great,

Thanks again!  :)

[Scarlett Arrow]

That's the one, Leah

[Mookie78]

Ahh bless you!  Thanks Scarlett - I shall get ordering!  :) 

[Mookie78]

Just a quick update - it turns out that it was the radiator, the garage could see it leaking even though they didn't have pressure test equipment either so I'm not sure why the other guys missed it!  Bought the radiator for £31.00 (free postage!) and delivered it, they fitted it, tested it twice and all appears to be well! 

When I was originally quoted they said £390.00 for new radiator, coolant and labour etc - because of the radiator recommendation on here, the quote was reduced to £195.00 for coolant and labour - so a pretty amazing saving - thanks so much for your help Colin and Scarlett!  :)

[Scarlett Arrow]

Happy to help

Do you know exactly which coolant they used?.

[Mookie78]

Well, I don't think they used the ones recommended as they only charged £20.00 for it, so I may try and bleed and re-do the coolant when I have a bt more time and funds - I've had to Shell out quite a bit on the car lately so I'll likely wait until my funds have been replenished!  Hopefully it'll be ok for the moment though... *fingers crossed*  !! 

[Scarlett Arrow]

That would be a worry, especially as they have charged you so much for labour..it's a one hour max job to change the rad, and bleed the system (the only tricky bit).

For the sake of the water pump, really hope they have used OAT coolant, which is about £20 for five litres.

[Mookie78]

Really?  God I thought it would have taken longer than that, if that's the case then it's hugely expensive for labour...!

I might give them a call and ask what kind of coolant they've used - I was going to have a go myself but anticipated it taking me a much longer amount of time that I didn't have.  Plus I now have another issue that's come up today which I'm not sure if it's related!  It seems like there's always something at the moment...

For some reason when I go into 6th gear it's now popping out, first time that's happened - do you think this could in any way be related to the work that's just been done?  I've always had to put the clutch right to the bottom to change gear, so they're a little sticky I guess, but generally have been working fine.  I managed to get her to stay in 6th for a while and she was on high revs and the engine felt very heavy, so switched back down to fifth.. any ideas what this might be?! 

Thanks for listening to the saga guys...!  :)

[JayG]

Just chipping in with my 2 pence here.

On my old car, I split a coolant hose and it dropped it's guts all over the floor. Thankfully I'd just got home. Looked out the front window 5 mins later to what looked like my car on fire. So much steam! it bellowed plumes of it for about 10 minutes! When I had it towed to a garage for repairs, they said they replaced the hose and had topped it all up with coolant.  Upon closer inspection they filled it entirely with water! The insides of my radiator and god knows what else rusted furiously, the water pump died, the thermostat packed up. Odd noises appeared from the engine. That water ruined it.

I was devastated but not as much as my wallet when I had to go get another car.

Definately make sure it's got the right coolant / mix.