Rav4 Hybrid just arrived - in time for road trip!

[786s13]

Hi guys, 

Ordered the car back in Jan and it arrived 26th May, just in time for bank holiday road trip.

Nice comfy family car covered around 700 miles in 4 days. Mrs and Kids loved it with loads of space and plenty of toys for me to get use to and play with 

The new TSS is awesome! Really took the hard work out of driving long distances. Radar cruise control pretty much drives the car on the motorways and the lane assist does the steering as well. Very very very impressed and its so close to being a driver-less car!

The power boot is also a great help with kids, having no hands free just press a button and it opens for you. You will need to park "nose in" as the boot latch opens out quite far so you need a lot of space behind the car.  

Navigation is the usual Toyota standard (not very good) and i had to use my google maps to avoid traffic jams but for local navigation we found all the beaches and POI we needed. 

We easily got three child seats on the back row and driver and passenger seats were well padded for long drives. 

Very quite car even at motorways speeds. In little villages we used the EV button and quietly potted around and soaked in the calm relaxed village atmosphere. 

Hope you enjoy the pics

[Heidfirst]

Nice looking car (although I don't think that 2-tone interior would be my choice). Conventional handbrake too which is a win.

Enjoy your new car!

[WarrenB]

Good to see as this is exactly the colour scheme I have gone for, Barcelona red and I have gone for grey leather. Dealer gone quiet of late as to my delivery date, but the wait continues.

 

As for the Sat Nav, didn't go for the option but have gone for the TSS. Sat Nav on my mobile is fine ( and a lot cheaper).

[D Arrowsmith]

Very nice, just got mine last week too, very impressed with it, much better than expected.

[the fox]

It's a shame Toyota missed a trick by not including a charging point, I tried a 2 series BMW Hybrid for two days, it was very impressive, I don't need the 4X4 function anymore, and due a change.... The wife's Mitsubishi PHEV is returning just over 100mpg...

[FROSTYBALLS]

"I don't need the 4X4 function anymore,..."

Of course the Rav4 hybrid is available in both front wheel drive and all wheel drive

[the fox]

Yep I did know it's available in 4x4 but I was looking at a Series2 because I don't need the 4x4 function anymore........ but also seems stupid if it can't be plugged in.. And why would someone buy a 2 wheeled drive 4x4, buy a cheaper crossover.....

[786s13]

Thanks for the replies guys... 

With regards with plug in hybrid, the main problem i see is range. How far can you go until you have to "plug in" and how long does a charging take? do these plug in cars have a engine on board so that you can keep on driving etc?

Sorry im new to hybrids, been a diesel fan for many years. 

[the fox]

Hi 786s13 a plug in hybrid works just the same as one which you can't plug in, the wife's Mitsubishi PHEV she lost faith in her RAV4 and the Brand, does about 36 miles in Electric mode then you can plug in it or it will charge automatically from engine, the wife uses no fuel all week uses full EV mode, charges it everyday from the mains costs her 85p each charge, then see does a mercer trip down the motorway every weekend using the engine, and it's ready Monday morning all charged again, why Toyota did not add a charging point I don't know, she even can park for free in an special electric charging parking space in the middle of the town.... win win.... all Hybrids should be made like this....

[FROSTYBALLS]

9 hours ago, the fox said:

Yep I did know it's available in 4x4 but I was looking at a Series2 because I don't need the 4x4 function anymore also And why would someone buy a 2 wheeled drive 4x4, buy a cheaper crossover.....

People buy front wheel drive versions of the Rav4, the VW Tiguan and the Honda CRV because they want something bigger than a crossover and, like yourself, don't need four wheel drive. 

The Rav4 has always been available in both front wheel drive and four wheel drive - though not always in Europe.

Conversely people buy four wheel drive versions of crossovers because they want four wheel drive, and something smaller than an SUV.

[Heidfirst]

50 minutes ago, the fox said:

, why Toyota did not add a charging point I don't know, she even can park for free in an special electric charging parking space in the middle of the town.... win win.... all Hybrids should be made like this....

a lot of people are not in a position to be able to use a plug-in EV or a PHEV as a plug-in. They don't have a dedicated parking space, they wouldn't be allowed to run a cable across a footpath/pavement & there are not enough public charging points. Those people would not want to pay for dead weight that they never use ....

& that is before you even consider how long they take to charge versus a couple of minutes empty to full tank for an ICE or conventional hybrid.. 

I imagine that if Toyota think that there is a profitable market that they will bring out a plug-in version but the plug-in Prius has never sold anything like as well as the standard hybrid Prius.

[D Arrowsmith]

Its down to choice, I drove the Outlander and found the interior cheap for the price of the car, I have no drive so cannot plug in at home, and the cost of the car against the all round quality was not worth it (only my opinion though). I am a RAV4 fan, this is my fifth now, and its the best, I just love driving it and its much better than I was expecting, Was close to getting the Mazda CX5, but so glad I stuck with the RAV4 Hybrid. It may appear that not putting a charge point in was a missed opportunity, so why are there not more PHEV vehicles on the road? Toyota Hybrids are everywhere in comparison.

[the fox]

9 hours ago, D Arrowsmith said:

  so why are there not more PHEV vehicles on the road? Toyota Hybrids are everywhere in comparison.

Make this point in twelve months, most manufacturers never bothered with Hybrids because they are not economical and Battery technology etc. The Toyota Hybrid just became a fad/fashionable buyers thought they were saving the planet, the carbon footprint just to make the batteries will never be made up by charging them from the engine, Now manufacturers are jumping on the band wagon on Toyota's Hybrid success and customers buying patterns, but you can charge a plug in's batteries for about the 1/3rd of the cost of a conventional hybrid. The time to charge is the same but it can be done while you are shopping or in bed. Charging batteries from an engine using very expensive fuel is just pointless. You might as well dump all the weight and drive a conventional vehicle..... But lets wait and see.. 

[786s13]

Looking at the purchase price of the two cars, the outlander is about £10k+ for a top spec plug in car compared to the top spec Rav. So plug-in cars are more pricey to buy in the 1st place so a smaller amount of cars on the road.

You would be buying plug-in cars to make a statement, if you really cared about the environment in the 1st place you would by a 2nd hand car and convert that to LPG. 

Hybrid, plug-in.... all cons...

The reason i bought a brand new Rav.... I wanted a up to date safety packed car for the kids. Probably keep this 10 years like our last Rav, and it just so happens to be hybrid. 

[Heidfirst]

6 hours ago, 786s13 said:

if you really cared about the environment in the 1st place you would by a 2nd hand car and convert that to LPG. 

if you really cared about the environment you would walk, cycle or use public transport ...  but for the most part we are selfish & value convenience above that.

[WarrenB]

Bought the Hybrid because didn't want a diesel, want to tow a caravan and for petrol and green I think hybrid is the best at the moment.

[myriagon]

21 hours ago, D Arrowsmith said:

...so why are there not more PHEV vehicles on the road? Toyota Hybrids are everywhere in comparison.

AFAICT the Outlander PHEVs are selling well - see https://speakev.com/threads/evs-selling-like-hot-cakes.17663/

Toyota hybrids have been around for much longer which is why they are everywhere by comparison.

As for the plug in Prius, I suspect that didn't sell well because the price was set too high. Maybe Toyota tried to take advantage of the government £5000 grant in the expectation of increasing their margin only for the ploy not to work as they didn't sell so many. Looking at the prices back in 2012 when the plug-in was introduced it was ~£11k more than the standard Prius, falling to £6k after the government grant had been deducted from the price. Even £6k is a lot to pay for what effectively was an option to connect your car to the mains.

It's a pity that the new Toyota hybrids are not all plug-ins. With the success of the Outlander PHEV and a number of other manufacturers now coming to market with plugins, I feel that Toyota are getting left behind. I would be surprised if Toyota are not already looking to introduce PHEVs across their product range but that should have already happened given the lead they had.

Then there's the question of the potentially disruptive EV technology. Tesla with their +400k pre orders for the model 3 must have rung alarm bells in the HQs of all the major car manufacturers. Toyota need to drop their hydrogen car asap and get on with designing their own electric cars before they become a footnote in history.

[Anthony Poli]

...so why are there not more PHEV vehicles on the road? Toyota Hybrids are everywhere in comparison.

AFAICT the Outlander PHEVs is selling well - see https://speakev.com/threads/evs-selling-like-hot-cakes.17663/

Toyota hybrids have been around for much longer which is why they are everywhere by comparison.

As for the plug in Prius, I suspect that didn't sell well because the price was set too high. Maybe Toyota tried to take advantage of the government £5000 grant in the expectation of increasing their margin only for the ploy not to work as they didn't sell so many. Looking at the prices back in 2012 when the plug-in was introduced it was ~£11k more than the standard Prius, falling to £6k after the government grant had been deducted from the price. Even £6k is a lot to pay for what effectively was an option to connect your car to the mains.

It's a pity that the new Toyota hybrids are not all plug-ins. With the success of the Outlander PHEV and a number of other manufacturers now coming to market with plugins, I feel that Toyota are getting left behind. I would be surprised if Toyota are not already looking to introduce PHEVs across their product range but that should have already happened given the lead they had.

Then there's the question of the potentially disruptive EV technology. Tesla with their +400k pre orders for the model 3 must have rung alarm bells in the HQs of all the major car manufacturers. Toyota need to drop their hydrogen car asap and get on with designing their own electric cars before they become a footnote in history.

I do hope they change their minds. I can't remember where I read that Toyota are dead against making a pure EV. The mirai is a nice idea, but without the infrastructure to refuel it, it's going to tak a long time. I just hope they start making all their hybrids plug in with more range.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Heidfirst]

47 minutes ago, myriagon said:

Tesla with their +400k pre orders for the model 3 must have rung alarm bells in the HQs of all the major car manufacturers. Toyota need to drop their hydrogen car asap and get on with designing their own electric cars before they become a footnote in history.

Tesla are losing nearly $900 million per year & there is more than a little concern about the supply chain's ability to grow to handle the demand for the model 3. I am also led to believe that there have been production & quality issues on the existing vehicles.

Given the range issue & speed of refilling v recharging hydrogen looks like a decent long term solution if they can get the price down (which should happen with mass production). It also may be easier to provide a new filling infrastructure as you don't need 1 for every flat/house etc. although the unit cost is obviously higher (mind you, if everyone goes plug-in we will need a lot of new power stations) .

I am sure that Toyota (& others) are keeping the options covered.

It's going to be interesting to watch it all unfold ...

[FROSTYBALLS]

One issue with a widespread take up of plug in vehicles is that at least 1/3 of the UK's national grid may require upgrading on both a local and national level. Will probably need to have schemes such as smart management of charging (ie reduced charging at times of peak electricity consumption) and off-peak charging.

We already have capacity issues in the winter months .....

[myriagon]

19 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

One issue with a widespread take up of plug in vehicles is that at least 1/3 of the UK's national grid may require upgrading on both a local and national level. Will gprobably need to have schemes such as smart management of charging (ie reduced charging at times of peak electricity consumption) and off-peak charging.

We already have capacity issues in the winter months .....

EVs/PHEVs are typically charged overnight when the national grid needs more demand so I don't see this being an issue. In addition in future I think many homes will have their own solar or wind power generation coupled with Battery storage such as Tesla's Powerwall reducing the load on the national grid.

[Heidfirst]

if everyone goes EV/PHEV then the overnight level of demand would jump enormously. At the same time the % of generating capacity that can be turned on quickly is declining (at least in Scotland) & solar/wind are not 24/7 reliable. The current contracts for available surge capacity have actually been leading to diesel generator farms - hardly green.

Large power plants do not happen over night -  I suspect that you are talking about ~15 years + to plan, design & build.

Many homes may have their own solar or wind generation but many will not (existing, flats, conservation/listed etc. etc.) & many (those without off street parking) will not be able to have  charging points.

[myriagon]

1 hour ago, Heidfirst said:

Tesla are losing nearly $900 million per year & there is more than a little concern about the supply chain's ability to grow to handle the demand for the model 3. I am also led to believe that there have been production & quality issues on the existing vehicles.

Given the range issue & speed of refilling v recharging hydrogen looks like a decent long term solution if they can get the price down (which should happen with mass production). It also may be easier to provide a new filling infrastructure as you don't need 1 for every flat/house etc. although the unit cost is obviously higher (mind you, if everyone goes plug-in we will need a lot of new power stations) .

I am sure that Toyota (& others) are keeping the options covered.

It's going to be interesting to watch it all unfold ...

Hydrogen powered fuel cells are an extremely inefficient system as compared to batteries. In an energy scarce world that matters. There are also real safety risks associated with the high pressure tanks that it would require, and there are serious engineering issues with these high pressures and with embrittlement - look up "hydrogen embrittlement". Then there's the very costly infrastructure needed to produce hydrogen and store it as well as building the hydrogen filling stations themselves.

As for EV car range, Tesla's Musk has said they could make a 400 mile range car now if they wanted. However there will be very few who drive more than the 300 mile range that the latest Tesla S offers without taking a break. Using a supercharger it only takes 20 mins to recharge to 50% - good for another 150 miles and a 20 min break or more is sensible after a 300 mile drive. FWIW the Mirai is also meant to have a range of 300 miles but from what I've heard it's more like 150-200 miles.

As for Tesla losses, the Tesla share price rose by 6% following the $900 million loss announcement. I would be very surprised if they could turn a profit at the moment given all the investment that they are doing. Maybe Tesla won't survive but they are showing the world what is possible with EVs. I have no doubt that many of the big car manufacturers will follow them. It's been reported that VW are looking at building a European Battery factory to rival the huge size of the one that Tesla are building as VW move to EVs and hybrids.

[Heidfirst]

There is a lot of work going on into producing Hydrogen e.g. Glasgow University announce d a year or so ago that they had found a method that was 30x better than previous.

Similarly there is a lot of work going on into batteries as there probably isn't enough lithium for everybody to go EV/PHEV.

As we say up here , it will all come out in the wash ... 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, myriagon said:

EVs/PHEVs are typically charged overnight when the national grid needs more demand so I don't see this being an issue. In addition in future I think many homes will have their own solar or wind power generation coupled with battery storage such as Tesla's Powerwall reducing the load on the national grid.

Ofgem who have commissioned industry reports in the past four years into the future requirements the National Grid faces, don't agree. Their reports indicate that the network will require substantial upgrading, and that schemes such as smart charging and off peak charging will need to be introduced.