Prius Gen II - Requires new hybrid battery at 96k

[PriUK]

I have a Prius Generation II (2006, 96k miles) that has recently suffered from the red triangle and VSC warnings, after loosing all power and limping home. The code reader revealed the codes P0420, P0a80 and P3013.

I took the car to the local dealer in Ipswich, who claimed to be able to diagnose the problem in 30 minutes for £59 and that it was very unlikely to be the hybrid Battery. After taking half the day, they said that they would need another 30 minutes (and another £59) to confirm the issue.

After nearly a full day, the dealer confirmed that a module within the hybrid Battery had failed and that a whole new Battery would be required (£1,068 plus labour). They went on to say, that it was possible a new Hybrid ECU would also be required (£723 plus labour), but that they could not confirm this until they had changed the battery. Labout charge estimated at around £450 worst case.

Does this sounds reasonable? Not only the £118 to diagnose the problem initially - but the fact that the vehicle requires a new battery at <100k miles and that a new ECU may be required, but that they could not confirm until the battery had been replaced.

To add insult to injury, the dealer suggested that I may like to take £200 scrap for it - despite the fact that I have just paid out £700 for a reconditioned cat (none main dealer). 

I asked if the dealer would be prepared to approach Toyota about a goodwill gesture - but they refused, stating that the warranty was only 5-years.

I should add that although the car had main dealer servicing for the first 5-6 years, a local garage has serviced the car since. I was not aware of the Hybrid Battery Check program until this incident occurred and I started researching about the hybrid batteries. I would argue that Toyota had a duty to inform me about the program, as they had done about an earlier recall.

[kithmo]

It sounds like your dealer is a "swap out parts until you find the problem" guy. I would take it to a more reputable dealer who has more skilled knowledgeable personnel on hybrids. P0420 is a catalytic converter fault, nothing to do with the Battery. there is a code P0480 (your P0A80 ?) that is a cooling fan fault, I don't know which fan, but if it's the hybrid Battery cooling fan then this could be the problem. The other code, P3013, I can't find.

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, PriUK said:

I should add that although the car had main dealer servicing for the first 5-6 years, a local garage has serviced the car since. I was not aware of the Hybrid Battery Check program until this incident occurred and I started researching about the hybrid batteries. I would argue that Toyota had a duty to inform me about the program, as they had done about an earlier recall.

The recall system is a totally different mandatory process to any method of informing customers of their servicing requirements.

The hybrid health check is performed free of charge when a hybrid between five and ten years of age is serviced by a Toyota dealer. An owner may pay to have a hybrid health check carried out if servicing is done outside the dealer network. Hybrid health checks may be done up to the car reaching the 10th anniversary of its first registration.

The hybrid health check has been well advertised on Toyota's website ever since its introduction. So as the information has been in the public domain for at least two years and is readily accessible, any obligation on Toyota's part to make customers aware has been fulfilled.

As regards approaching Toyota for a goodwill contribution, goodwill works both ways. As the car has been serviced outside the dealer network for 4-5 years, the chances of a goodwill contribution must be slim, if not non-existant.

[Devon Aygo]

P0420 Is Catalyst system efficiency below threshold ( bank 1 ) the ECU is receiving signal from the pre & post catalyst air/fuel sensors that indicate the catalyst is not operating correctly. The code is not definitive and can have many causes such a faulty O2 sensor, O2 sensor heater circuit, exhaust gas leak etc

P0A80 Is simply listed as "Replace Hybrid Battery pack" if this code is listed along with P0A1F replace the hybrid control ECU otherwise fit a new Battery, the likely cause of this fault is a clogged Battery cooling fan causing the battery to overheat. if after replacing the battery the code persist then replace the Hybrid control unit, so your dealer is correctly informing you.

P3013 Usually includes at least 3 more digits such as P3013-123 but it loosely relates to a fault with cell # 3 in the battery.

As for Toyota assisting or paying your car is around 2 years out of Hybrid battery warranty so no chance there, you have chosen to take your car out of the dealer network so showing no goodwill towards Toyota and in turn they are highly unlikely to offer any to you.

Yes Toyota offer a Hybrid health check as part of their routine servicing or as a standalone option to their customers but you chose to leave the network they are not obliged to chase you and offer anything other than safety related recalls when required to by the DVLA.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Devon Aygo

[PriUK]

7 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The hybrid health check has been well advertised on Toyota's website ever since its introduction. So as the information has been in the public domain for at least two years and is readily accessible, any obligation on Toyota's part to make customers aware has been fulfilled.

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

[Devon Aygo]

4 minutes ago, PriUK said:

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Engage with the dealers and brand and you would have been covered YOU chose not to YOUR fault!!!

[PriUK]

5 minutes ago, Devon Aygo said:

P0420 Is Catalyst system efficiency below threshold ( bank 1 ) the ECU is receiving signal from the the pre & post catalyst sensors that indicate the catalyst is not operating correctly. The code is not definitive and can have many causes such a faulty O2 sensor, O2 sensor heater circuit, exhaust gas leak etc

P0A80 Is simply listed as "Replace Hybrid battery pack" if this code is listed along P0A1F replace the hybrid control ECU otherwise fit a new battery, the likely cause of this fault is a clogged battery cooling fan causing the battery to overheat. if after replacing the battery the code persist then replace the Hybrid control unit, so your dealer is correctly informing you.

P3013 Usually includes at least 3 more digits such as P3013-123 but it relates to a fault with cell # 3 in the battery.

As for Toyota assisting or paying your car is around 5 years out of warranty so no chance there, you have chosen to take your car out of the dealer network so showing no goodwill towards Toyota and in turn they are highly unlikely to offer any to you.

Yes Toyota offer a Hybrid health check as part of their routine servicing or as a standalone option to their customers but you chose to leave the network they are not obliged to chase you and offer anything other than safety related recalls when required to by the DVLA.

I believe the 2006 Prius has a 8 year / 100,000 miles warranty on the hybrid Battery?

[Devon Aygo]

Just now, PriUK said:

I believe the 2006 Prius has a 8 year / 100,000 miles warranty on the hybrid battery?

Accepted and corrected, Still out of warranty !! without goodwill or obligation to help.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just now, PriUK said:

I believe the 2006 Prius has a 8 year / 100,000 miles warranty on the hybrid battery?

The hybrid Battery warranty on a 2006 Prius was 8 years/100,000 miles, whichever occurred first. Your car is still outside the warranty period on the time basis.

[Devon Aygo]

So far as i can see your only real course of action could be the "sales of goods act" but this would only apply if you purchased the car less than 7 years ago and you would have to prove the defect was present when you purchased the car.

[Beekeeper D]

14 hours ago, kithmo said:

It sounds like your dealer is a "swap out parts until you find the problem" guy. I would take it to a more reputable dealer who has more skilled knowledgeable personnel on hybrids. ... 

Are there particular Toyota dealers that specialise? How would they be discovered? 

 

I note from Google and eBay that there are independents offering Battery pack rebuilding services. Is there any experience here of dealing with them? 

 

The £118 diagnosis fee seems a bit steep, until you think of the dealer's overhead costs. 

Surely a failed cell within the pack could be amply illuminated for the budget-concious by using the Torque app and an OBD reader? 

 

 

And as a side-note, from Devon Aygo's most helpful discussion of the fault codes, it would appear that the likely cause of whatever consequent battery/hybrid problems/damage was simply "clogged" air cooling of the Battery pack. Cleaning that out is the sort of thing that might be missed in routine servicing at a non-specialist "local garage". Has it been done now? 

And I do wonder about any possible connection between the catalyst fault code and the recent £700 spent on catalyst work with a "non main dealer" ... 

[Cyker]

It's worth noting that you don't have to go to Toyota to get the Battery done - There are places that specialize in Battery refurbs where they will check the Battery and only replace damaged/faulty cells, or just swap in a reconditioned unit.

It would be worth getting a second opinion tho' - A lot of Toyota franchise garages mostly have fitters rather than proper mechanics.

They are surprisingly good value for money for routine servicing and anything covered by their fixed-price scheme, but I've found them to be awful at diagnostics generally; I feel they pretty much only go by what the computer tells them and seem to lack experience of common problems outside that, esp. on older models of car.

Some franchises are better than others tho' - Out of the two near me, the Hills franchise has been far better than the Jemca one, but even within franchises there can be huge variations in levels of service and competency.