Horrified

[Hybrid-Harry]

I was horrified to find out that after only 1 year from new my Yaris Excel hybrid is now worth only £9500, that's a drop of almost 47% .

What has happened to the used values, are buyers frightened of used hybrids.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Where did you get the valuation from?

[myriagon]

Unfortunately that sounds about right. Drivethedeal are offering a new Excel Yaris hybrid for about £13.8k. Deducting VAT takes that down to £11.5k. Allowing for a £2k profit/cost margin selling through a dealer brings it down to £9.5k and that's not including a year of use. Buying new is a costly business especially at this end of the market. Guess this is why PCH hire schemes are becoming ever more popular.

[Hybrid-Harry]

1 hour ago, myriagon said:

Unfortunately that sounds about right. Drivethedeal are offering a new Excel Yaris hybrid for about £13.8k. Deducting VAT takes that down to £11.5k. Allowing for a £2k profit/cost margin selling through a dealer brings it down to £9.5k and that's not including a year of use. Buying new is a costly business especially at this end of the market. Guess this is why PCH hire schemes are becoming ever more popular.

You're absolutely correct, PCH / PCP is the way to go. 

When I traded my 4 year old yeti for the Yaris it only lost 40% of it's new value over the 4 years I owned it.

I have just done a deal with Skoda for another Yeti Monte Carlo on PCP, so bye bye Yaris before I lose any more money.

[mickburkesnr]

I got a raw deal with PCH/PCP with my 107. All my own fault, I didn't read the small print etc. But at the same time I told them I would do ~20,000 miles a year, and was told it'd be no problem I was covered. I don't know what by, because they put my 3 year mileage down as 20,000. I decided never to do another PCP on a brand new car after that. I ended up with a Hire Purchase car, 4 year old Peugeot from the dealership. I'll have had it for 2 1/2 years in October and I'm handing it back. It's been nothing but trouble and a total money pit. And only worth £4k after the £10k it was bought for! And I won't mention the £800 on a clutch and flywheel, it needing a new turbo which is around £800/£1000 and the suspension making knocking noises.

Anyway, the thing that puts me off about Hybrids is the batteries. They will need replacing at some point. It's not so much of an issue for new car owners as the batteries will be new, but to second hand buyers it's an issue. Plus theres no real way of knowing from the second hand buyers point of view whether the batteries have been tampered with or damaged in any way. If batteries are damaged then they can be lethal. And the final reason in my point of view is that it's just another thing to go wrong. Electronic brakes, for example, seem a good idea. But how do they fail? I've been told they either fail off or fail on. If they fail off it's fine as I have the car parked in gear anyway so it wouldn't roll. But if it fails on? How would you move the car? And worse, like a story I heard of someone in a Volvo, the brake fails on while you're driving?

All these things play in my head, and I'd rather a simple car with less on it that just works and won't try and kill me. There is a way of buying cars in the bracket of £500 - £1000 that I'm doing at the moment. The idea being the car is that cheap that if anything goes wrong with it you can either throw it away or sell it on at a loss of £100/£200. The depreciation wouldn't be so bad, you may lose £100 over the year of ownership. I'll see how I get on with my £250 Corolla!

[Cyker]

Is that not par for the course?

I thought it was common knowledge that new cars lose a great chunk of their value as soon as you drive them off the forecourt, with the first year having the steepest drop and subsequent years being less so as time goes on.

There are some exceptions, but that's the general way things go, hence why I've never even considered buying a new car!

 

@mickburkesnr - Don't worry, most of the stuff you mention has been debunked so it's not much to worry about (Batteries: Will last longer than a normal car's flywheel, Brakes: Magnetic regen, backed up by friction brakes even if they failed), but hybrids are still relatively expensive second hand so it'll be a while before they drop to that bracket! :lol:

The Corolla is a super solid car tho', so I reckon that'll do you for a good long while! (As long as you don't skimp on the servicing!!)

 

[Anthony Poli]

Buying any second hand car is a gamble, if you buy a used hybrid from a Toyota dealer that is worth their salt. They should dispose of any cars that don't make the grade or are old through auctions, the other thing is the cars have a hybrid health check when you buy them. Compared to a 10 year old car out of autotrader, which you take your chances with if anything goes wrong.

My previous 2 cars were corolla's

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Always a bit suspicious about posts like this, especially where the OP doesn't answer where the valuation was from, and there is no detail on mileage, condition, etc.

From the fourth post, one could presume that the valuation was from the Skoda dealer, who may not have wanted the car to sell, etc - hence a low part exchange , etc.

It always pays to shop around, even for vehicles from the same marque.

[mickburkesnr]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

@mickburkesnr - Don't worry, most of the stuff you mention has been debunked so it's not much to worry about (Batteries: Will last longer than a normal car's flywheel, Brakes: Magnetic regen, backed up by friction brakes even if they failed), but hybrids are still relatively expensive second hand so it'll be a while before they drop to that bracket!

The Corolla is a super solid car tho', so I reckon that'll do you for a good long while! (As long as you don't skimp on the servicing!!)

 

I know, but it still plays on my mind. Driving the Corolla (which is a 1998 1.3 I - basic as hell, only mod con is "power" steering!) it feels a lot heavier to drive but feels more solid compared to the Peugeot. The Peugeot has plenty of power which I do miss, but there's something about that Corolla. It's more honest, and I feel I could drive it through a field and still drive it home. Couldn't say that about the Peugeot!

And I hope it stays with me because I want a Land Cruiser, it's the only way I can save up for one! 

[Heidfirst]

4 hours ago, mickburkesnr said:

Anyway, the thing that puts me off about Hybrids is the batteries. They will need replacing at some point. It's not so much of an issue for new car owners as the batteries will be new, but to second hand buyers it's an issue. Plus theres no real way of knowing from the second hand buyers point of view whether the batteries have been tampered with or damaged in any way.

If you have the car serviced by a Toyota dealer it will get a hybrid health check & the battery warranty extended (or you can have it done on it's own for a fee) - I believe that you can do this up until the car is 10 but I think that there are older Prius than that running on the original battery.

 And the final reason in my point of view is that it's just another thing to go wrong. Electronic brakes, for example, seem a good idea. But how do they fail? I've been told they either fail off or fail on. If they fail off it's fine as I have the car parked in gear anyway so it wouldn't roll. But if it fails on? How would you move the car? And worse, like a story I heard of someone in a Volvo, the brake fails on while you're driving?

On an Avensis with an EPB there is a release tool with the car for the unlikely event that the EPB fails on & doesn't release when it should from the dash switch.

An EPB failing on whilst you are driving sounds rather odd. 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

A Hybrid Health Check can be undertaken up to the car's 10th anniversary of first registration. So if one has a Hybrid Health Check carried out immediately prior to the car's 10th anniversary, the 1 year Battery warranty extension that comes with the Hybrid Health Check will provide cover almost until the car's 11th anniversary of first registration.

[myriagon]

7 hours ago, Hybrid-Harry said:

You're absolutely correct, PCH / PCP is the way to go. 

When I traded my 4 year old yeti for the Yaris it only lost 40% of it's new value over the 4 years I owned it.

I have just done a deal with Skoda for another Yeti Monte Carlo on PCP, so bye bye Yaris before I lose any more money.

I almost bought a Yeti before my Auris. Yetis have held their value well perhaps because they appeal to the older generation with more disposable cash. There are not that many on the road too which will help. However with the VW scandal I'm not sure they will continue to hold their value.

[Cyker]

If you want a more fun Corolla, save up a bit more and trade in for a last-gen T-Sport - Bullet proof AND faaaast 

Or, if you want something that is more frugal, a Corolla 2.0D4D - The torque on those things is insane  (You do need a very strong left foot for that clutch tho'! I strongly advise avoiding it if the car is going to be used exclusively around town, or you'll be walking in circles after a few months of ownership!)

My brother had one and it was great; So much more solid-feeling than the Auris that replaced it. Wasn't super fast but it felt like you could tow a house . And even with that big 2.0 diesel lump it was still quieter than my Yaris (Oh god my Yaris is so loud now... these Dunlop tyres grip like the car's on rails but ugh the goddamned road noise!!! )

@Anthony - I used to think that, but I find the problem with a new car is unless you get it several years after they released it you're basically beta-testing for them. There have been so many models, even from Toyota, that have had annoying niggly issues from new. In some cases these have been fixed under warranty, but a lot of owners have really had to fight for things to be fixed as the dealer tries to wriggle out of it or declare it outside the warranty.
Toyota aren't as bad as some other manufacturers, but they still don't make it easy...

With a second-hand car, there is history, and things like the Honest John Good/Bad listing , which you can research to see if a particular car has any known issues, and how it is going to last.

IMHO with a new car you're taking a bigger gamble as you won't have anywhere near as much info to research - You won't know what the known faults are until they happen to you!

The trick with a second hand car is information: Research the model thoroughly, check the MOT (All you need is the model and registration!!), and before you commit to buy get a mechanical mate or something like the AA to check before you buy it to be sure. Checking it out is very important, as is the service history.

With a new car there is nothing to check, so you just have to hope you got a good one! (Like back when they first started making Yarisususeses in France; You really didn't want a first-gen French one ). Just because it's new doesn't guarantee there won't be problems, and it's all the more heart-breaking if you do...

Personally I just couldn't do it for the devaluation alone  - Paying full whack and then knowing I'm losing several thousand pounds off the value just driving it out the dealership! 

 

As long as you do your research there is no real greater risk in buying second-hand than new, and you'll save a buttload of money to boot!

I will agree the dealer-approved ones tend to be in better nick, but you still have to do your research and check them thoroughly in case they miss anything (It turns out they don't actually check the car any more thoroughly than they do during a service; As long as it has full dealer history it can go on their lot - You have no way of knowing if it's been misfueled or something!).

I do kinda understand why some people swear by it tho' - I know a few people who replace their cars every three years on some sort of scheme where the dealer effectively guarantees a buyback price at the end of the lease as a trade in for a newer model.
 

[kithmo]

There's nothing generally wrong with Hybrid residuals, it must be a Yaris thing. I traded my three and a half year old Prius Plus in March against the new Prius and got £17.5K for it, just a 40% drop from the new price of £29K. As I bought it second hand at 6 months old for £25K, I only took a 30% hit. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

50 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I used to think that, but I find the problem with a new car is unless you get it several years after they released it you're basically beta-testing for them. There have been so many models, even from Toyota, that have had annoying niggly issues from new. In some cases these have been fixed under warranty, but a lot of owners have really had to fight for things to be fixed as the dealer tries to wriggle out of it or declare it outside the warranty.
Toyota aren't as bad as some other manufacturers, but they still don't make it easy...

With a second-hand car, there is history, and things like the Honest John Good/Bad listing , which you can research to see if a particular car has any known issues, and how it is going to last.

IMHO with a new car you're taking a bigger gamble as you won't have anywhere near as much info to research - You won't know what the known faults are until they happen to you!

The trick with a second hand car is information: Research the model thoroughly, check the MOT (All you need is the model and registration!!), and before you commit to buy get a mechanical mate or something like the AA to check before you buy it to be sure. Checking it out is very important, as is the service history.

With a new car there is nothing to check, so you just have to hope you got a good one! (Like back when they first started making Yarisususeses in France; You really didn't want a first-gen French one). Just because it's new doesn't guarantee there won't be problems, and it's all the more heart-breaking if you do...

Personally I just couldn't do it for the devaluation alone  - Paying full whack and then knowing I'm losing several thousand pounds off the value just driving it out the dealership! 

As long as you do your research there is no real greater risk in buying second-hand than new, and you'll save a buttload of money to boot!

I do kinda understand why some people swear by it tho' - I know a few people who replace their cars every three years on some sort of scheme where the dealer effectively guarantees a buyback price at the end of the lease as a trade in for a newer model.
 

It depends how 'new' a car is. These days manufacturers tend not to produce cars which are totally new from the ground up (although there are one or two exceptions) to limit problems with new models - more often than not there is a carry over of components, drivetrains, etc. For example, if manufacturers introduce new engines, they tend to do this part way through a model's life (eg: the Toyota 1.33 engine was introduced in the Auris and Yaris in 2008 - partway through model cycles; the 1.2T was introduced with the mid-life facelift of the current Auris; the 2016 Prius uses a developed engine and drivetrain from the previous generation; Hyundai's new 1.0 litre turbo was introduced in the current i20 in 2016 [15 months after the new i20 was launched] to replace the manual 1.4; etc).

All this isn't to say ultimately there will not be issues - one example was when Ford introduced the 1990 Escort. The 1.4 engine was carried over, but there were big issues with running problems in European countries (including Germany) - so for the first six months customers were upgraded to the 1.6 at no cost, until Ford sorted the issues.

Research is equally important when buying a new car, to make sure it fits one's needs. As above, one can check the previous model's reputation for problem areas, especially where engines and running gear are carried forwards.

Whatever car one buys, whether it is new or secondhand, no matter how much research one does, it doesn't guarantee one won't have issues with the car one has purchased. At least with a new car or a car sold by a dealer one either has the warranty or a greater degree of comeback. 

In today's world, not sure that everyone pays the full list price - either through negotiation or manufacturer/dealer offers (deposit contributions, etc). Don't think we've ever paid the full list price. Research helps.

Not everyone who changes their car every three years or so, purchases on lease schemes. People have different reasons for purchasing new cars - could be they want to retain a level of value in the cars they have, circumstances change, or they want a different car. We've bought 18 new cars (Nissans, Hondas, Hyundais, Mazdas and Toyotas), and on average have kept each one for just over three years. Have never been convinced by lease schemes, and have never used them.

I'm not convinced that 'beta testing' of new models occurs nowadays - manufacturers cannot afford to have models blighted with poor reputations. We bought a new i20 last year - six months after it was launched. So far not had any issue with it. Had it's first service last week - fine.

 

 

[myriagon]

28 minutes ago, kithmo said:

There's nothing generally wrong with Hybrid residuals, it must be a Yaris thing. I traded my three and a half year old Prius Plus in March against the new Prius and got £17.5K for it, just a 40% drop from the new price of £29K. As I bought it second hand at 6 months old for £25K, I only took a 30% hit. 

That works out at £2140 per year in depreciation. I think that's good and beats the PCH deals I've seen but then buying nearly new will have helped. The high demand from taxi drivers for second hand Prius' no doubt was another big factor. My 2012 Auris depreciation is about £1700/year so far but then I bought it at just over a year old for much less than I would have paid for a Prius.

It will be interesting to see if residuals for the new Prius are so good. Someone mentioned that the reduced rear access may put off taxi drivers. Time will tell...

[johalareewi]

21 hours ago, mickburkesnr said:

All these things play in my head, and I'd rather a simple car with less on it that just works and won't try and kill me.

If you look closely, the toyota hybrid is a simple car that just works. And any car can kill.

[YarisHybrid2016]

What condition was the vehicle in when you had it valued?

If it was a dealer, then it is pretty much useless for comparison as there are many reasons why they would give a low valuation (though usually it relates to how much they can con you in order for them to make more money re-selling it, and whether they want the car in the first place.)

Generally these days it is better to sell your car privately than trade-in, unless there is some overriding factor that means the dealer gives you near market value.

I wouldn't expect to sell my Yaris for less than £14.5k minimum, with 10k on the clock. After a wash and valet, she could be put back in the showroom.

[Hybrid-Harry]

I got 4 valuations 3 from dealers and one from webuyantcar, the best was £9500 the worst £9000 from Skoda, but they discounted the Yeti by £2000.

The Yaris Excell was as new with 3200 miles on the clock.

When I looked on the dealership forecourt, the same car was retailing out at an average of £13000.  

[FROSTYBALLS]

Part of the issue is that there is a glut of used cars on the market at present after one year leases have ended, and there are also high numbers of pre-registered vehicles (15 and 65 registrations) around. Both factors adversely affect the values of one year old used cars. The numbers of pre-registered vehicles around with less than 1,000 miles, reduces the demand for used vehicles with higher mileage, and hence, values.

Classic case of supply being greater than demand affecting values - and this is regardless of what make or type of vehicle one has.

[Duffryn]

A neighbour of mine has just got nearly £4K knocked off a pre-reg (16 plate) Seat Toledo with 23 miles on the clock.

[stevecrvn]

We just got £3050 of a pre reg Skoda Fabia 5 mile on the clock and registered the day before. Deals to be had the moment