Alternator removal on a 4E-FE engine

[mickburkesnr]

I had mentioned in another post regarding the problems I had trying to take off a rounded bolt head from an alternator in my 1998 Toyota Corolla 1.3 with the 4E-FE engine. However, the actual process is becoming more problematic, hence this post.

The background to the story is that I started changing the belts on my Corolla on Saturday, and apart from taking the wheel off the first step is to loosen the alternator adjustment bolt. So I do this, and the bolt comes off in my hand. Half of the screw is stuck in the alternator. The screw is actually inside it, so I have to remove it and take it to a friend who can extract the bolt from the alternator. So I then start to undo the bolt at the bottom of the alternator but ended up rounding the bolt head. I have since taken this off.

My problem now is that the alternator is very stiff. And I mean stiff, for me to actually move it from the original position to where it is in the photo I had to get a crowbar and push against it. I'm hovering around 19st 6, and it was a struggle to push it down.

I have absolutely no access at all to screw the other side of the bolt, if I get purchase with my ratchet there isn't enough room to actually twist it or get any strength behind it, and the spanner is too close to other bits and pieces around that bolt. Same with the two bolts that hold the bracket on to the engine block, can't get a ratchet to it or a spanner. I've tried going underneath, but the bolt holding the alternator is directly above the driveshaft.

So, right now I have a car on my drive with an alternator hanging on to the engine bay with a bolt that won't move, or can't be moved. How can I get this alternator off?! It's driving me mad. I was tempted to strap the alternator back to the adjustment bracket, but spinning the pulley on the alternator reveals a squeak. So it's due a bearing, so it really does need to come off.

A friend I've spoken to has suggested putting crowbar in between the alternator and the bracket and levering it, hoping the bolt will break but I'm worried I'll break the bracket too.

Any help would be appreciated. I've a Haynes manual that's vauge than a politician, and trawling through the Internet just rubs salt in to the wounds. Plenty of videos about changing an alternator on a Toyota Corolla - on a 4A-FE engine which has the alternator at the front of the engine and is much easier to get off!

 

[oldcodger]

Would avoid trying to break the bolt with a  lever, think the steel(?) bolt will still be there when the alternators case or even the engine block has been smashed to pieces.

Think a garage would probably use a  torch to burn the nut off or even an angle grinder f access is possible, but a much more safer diy option would be to use a Nut Splitter, cheap enough at around £12 and looks like you have the room to fit it  from underneath.

Also see some Ytubes using a dremmel type cutter, though have never used either so cannot say which is best.

Only thing I can offer is that always use some good quality penetrating fluid on all your nuts and bolts before trying to remove them, giving them a scoure with a wire brush before using the spanner.

[mickburkesnr]

Yeah I didnt think the casing or bracket would outlast a crowbar before a bolt would.

I have read on a forum or two a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF fluid is the best for moving seized bolts, so I'm going to try that tomorrow.

You're right though, a Dremmel or a nut splitter is probably best now. Theres no way I could fit an angle grinder to it.

[alan333]

Which bolt in the pic are you trying to remove?

[mickburkesnr]

This one, I just realised it's not very clear in the pic.

[alan333]

Looks like a ring spanner would go on both ends (and possibly a socket on the bolt head end).  If you need extra leverage 'extend' the ring spanner by hooking the ring end of another spanner over the open end of the one you have on the nut (but watch your fingers in case it slips).

[mickburkesnr]

Tried that, the ring spanner on the bolt at the bottom of the picture (which is removed in that photo) rounded the head on the nut. I'm going to try practically soaking it in Plus Gas(?), and if that doesn't work a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF fluid I mentioned before. I read that on an agriculture website. If it's good enough for farmer giles' stiff nuts it's got to be good enough to get this out. 

I'm curious though, and it's not something I've found the answer to, is that bolt in the right way to begin with? It seems a bit backward to have the bolt that way when you can't really get it out?

[oldcodger]

+1 for Plus Gas, stocked by ECP, much better that many of the cheapers ones.

[TomdeGuerre]

I understood from your previous post that you had managed to remove the nut from the pivot bolt and what you see at the threaded end of the bolt is not the nut but a steel spacer that is usually fitted to the alternator.

So your pivot bolt is seized and they can be tough to remove. Soak it with release agent (I'd recommend the acetone and ATF) and initially see if you can get the alternator to swivel back and forth, that should help get the stuff penetrate. You've got to break the corrosion between the shank of the bolt and the alternator casing so try tightening the bolt first then slackening. There's no quick and easy way with these things, just have to work at it. Pity the alternator bracket wouldn't unscrew from the engine block. 

[mickburkesnr]

Actually made good progress on this today!

I bought the Plus Gas stuff and applied it to each end of the bracket. It took some applications, and forcing the alternator up and down. It was still stiff. So out of anger more than anything I took a lump hammer to the end of the bolt where I took the nut off and hit it a few times. The alternator now swivels unhindered! It actually moves properly like a door hinge. I noticed though that when the alternator moved the bolt did too. So it's seized inside the alternator.

I unscrewed it and it took some persuasion but I managed to get the bolt to unscrew slowly while pushing the alternator down. I then hammered the bolt more and it's now gone in to the bracket. I'm going to get hold of a centre punch and continue to hammer the bolt through. But I'm more confident now that it's going to come out properly without me breaking stuff.

The one thing I will say is that I'm not sure what size bolt head is on this alternator. It's too small for a 14mm socket but it's too big for a 13mm.

And thanks TomdeGurre, it's really annoying the bracket won't come off this process would've been a lot simpler then.

[TomdeGuerre]

2 hours ago, mickburkesnr said:

The one thing I will say is that I'm not sure what size bolt head is on this alternator. It's too small for a 14mm socket but it's too big for a 13mm

Maybe someone replaced the original metric bolt with a UNF one. Try a 9/16 AF spanner or socket on it.

[mickburkesnr]

I've suspected that this bolt has been changed, just because the head of the bolt is pointing towards the engine where it'd make more sense for it to be facing away.

When I get the bolt off (won't be this weekend now) I'll try and get an original bolt or original sized bolt and swap it round. I'll try the 9/16 socket I think I've got one in the toolbox.

[mickburkesnr]

DONE IT! FINALLY! The !Removed! alternator is off!!!!!!!!

I've attached a photo of the tools with what it took to get it off today. You can also see the state of the offending bolt. It's all corroded along the shaft, it's also slightly bent. So I'm going to go to Toyota tomorrow and order a replacement bolt.

But yeah, Plus Gas is a God send. The centre punch is also a marvellous tool. £2.50 from Wilkinsons. I wouldn't have got it out without it.

[oldcodger]

Phew !  

[mickburkesnr]

I said a lot more than Phew! The fiancee was nagging me all weekend about it saying to get a mechanic but I wouldn't be beaten. When it goes back on though I'm putting the bolt facing away from the engine so I don't go through this again!

[mickburkesnr]

More information on this, in the event someone else has the same trouble.

I was at the dealership yesterday ordering new bolts for the alternator and the guy showed me the exploded diagram of the alternator. It's what I thought, the head of the bolt should face away from the engine now towards it. So the alternator had been removed previously and refitted incorrectly.

[TomdeGuerre]

Well done Mick, here's your T shirt. Don't forget to put some anti-seize on that bolt when you fit it, that'll save you some grief in 10 years time when you have to take it back out.

 

[mickburkesnr]

I've just broken the monitor trying to put that shirt on :(

Thanks for the help guys