54 Plate D4D - Help Required Timing Belt

[Owdjockey]

I've just replaced the water pump on my 54 plate D4D. Have now moved onto the timing belt. Replaced both pulley wheels and the tensioner. When fitting the new belt with Cam/Injection pump and Crank set to their proper timing marks I develop a small amount of belt slack between the crank and the water pump idler. Thus when I finally work the belt around to tensioner pulley, the slack has been taken up and the crank then moved off its TDC mark. (See photo).

 

I've checked alot of the obvious including the  compatability and all are ok. I'm following the workshop manual. I have tried to get the slack out, but am something like 1/2 a belt tooth out when I try and get the belt onto the crank. I thought it could be belt stretching so I refitted the old belt and the same thing happens. Any tips as I am struggling abit here? Thanks

[gazza1286]

Doesn't the timing belt tensioner have to be retracted on these and held back with a thin allen key?  Unless you do that you won't be able to create enough slack on the belt (similar to the 3S-GE engine on the Mr2 mk2) 

This may help 

 

If you're not replacing the tensioner then you'll need to remove it and gently compress the piston using a vice. 

[Owdjockey]

Thanks Gary. The problem is created before I even before I activate the tensioner. I get to a point where I have all 3 timing marks correct, BUT i have a small amount of slack between the Crank and the water pump idler. If I try and pull down of the belt to take up the slack I cannot slot it into the next tooth, its short by about half- a notch. If I leave the slack between the crank & water pump in place, when I finally put the belt onto the top idler the slack is taken up by the crank moving and therefore moving off TDC.

I have tried my old belt - same result, measured my old tensioners - they are the same, the water pump is a blue print and ok. I'll maybe do a few more photos to explain the problem.

Cannot understand what I am doing wrong.

[mickburkesnr]

Are you definitely at top dead centre? You can't totally rely on what the crankshaft says as it could be TDC in two positions. One where the rockers are down and one where the rockers are up. Far as I know the rockers must point up. You'd find this out fairly easily by taking the rocker cover off.

[Owdjockey]

Thanks Mick. Undertsand what you are saying. By Rocker Cover do you mean the Cyclinder Head Cover Assembly? I'm not 100% certain but I think ileft the cam shaft in the same position. I've def rotated the crank a few times.

[Owdjockey]

 

https://youtu.be/3-DuKlSjaEA

This is a quick video i've just made

Edited August 17, 2016 by Owdjockey

[gazza1286]

I see your problem - I've has similar issues in the past. The way that I've approach this is:-

On the 'key' pulleys, don't 'wrap the belt around the teeth. The best way is to imagine that the belt is a pastry cutter. Line up the belt on the extreme outer edge of all the key pulleys and then slide it home evenly a little bit at a time on each of the notched pulleys. 

Hope this helps . 

[Owdjockey]

Thanks Gary, I'll have a go BUT of the Key Pulleys (crank/cam/injector) the injector pulley has a lip and the crank is a right !Removed! to even get the belt in. I may have a go at starting the belt off somewere else (which is against what  the workshop manual advises). But i'm getting a bit desperate.

[mickburkesnr]

1 hour ago, Owdjockey said:

Thanks Mick. Undertsand what you are saying. By Rocker Cover do you mean the Cyclinder Head Cover Assembly? I'm not 100% certain but I think ileft the cam shaft in the same position. I've def rotated the crank a few times.

I mean the cover that's right at the top of the engine, so yeah the Cylinder Head Cover. It's just with the 4 stroke engine the crack will rotate twice to complete the four step process. So what you'd be looking at is the piston position of the 1st cylinder not being at the top of the cylinder where it needs to be.

[Owdjockey]

Thanks Mick. I am pretty sure at I am at  TDC with the crank. The Cylinder Head Cover requires me to remove injector electrics and plumbing - nasty! The crank will be at TDC at 0 deg and 720deg. But the TDC marker on the crank will always align with the be TDC marker on the oil Pan at 0, 360 & 720 deg. Good idea, but I don't think thats the prob. Cheers mate.

[Owdjockey]

I created a new topic last week entitled "Is this the End?". I was looking at buying a 2009 1.8 vti. Decided against and bit the bullet and attempted to do the Water Pump and Timing Belt myself. Cannot understand how to solve the problem. My inability to do a simple maintenance task means I need to sell the car as spares or repair and buy another. Gutted after 239,000 miles for it to end this way. Thanks to those that have offered advice.

[alan333]

Try turning the crank half a tooth back, then fit the belt, then turn the crank the same half tooth forward - and see if it 'takes up the slack' of your half tooth.

[Owdjockey]

Alan, my Scottish friend you are a STAR!!!!! I had attempted this before, but the key difference in what you suggested was to advance the crank after I had retarded it and before I slipped the rest of the belt on. So *&^ing simple! Cheers

[alan333]

You're welcome mate, hope you get up and running soon :)

[Owdjockey]

 

 

 

 

I am pleased to announce that my car is back on the road and running ok. In the spirit of sharing my experiences and advice with the Forum please find attached below:

Equip yourself with:

1) The printed out copies of the relevant workshop manual, in my case for the 54 plate D4D it was for the 1CD-FTV which comprised a number of sections each cross-referencing each other in about 21 pages that include: Timing Belt 14-307, Partial Engine Assy 14-294, Drive Belt 14-269, Water Pump 16-46 and Injection or Supply Pump Assy 11-69. There may be a couple of other bits you need to print out, but the main sections are above. There is a lot of repetition and jumping between sections. Annotate accordingly as you go along.

2) Most of the component removal require 14, 17, 12, 13 and 22mm sockets or rings. Some of the 14mm pieces require a long-reach socket – (this one found me out as I did not have a 14mm long-reach). I hardly used any of my air tools due to restricted access. My air impact wrench was useless on the pulley nuts.

 

3) If you cannot get at something, think about leaving it until you have better access. E.g. I had two bolts on the Power Steering Idle Pulley bracket, one had poor restricted access the other bolt head had seen better days so I had to ensure I did not round it off.

 

4) The locking mechanism for both the Crankshaft Pulley bolt and for the Injection Pump Drive Pulley,  I made from a piece of 4mm plate and 25mm square tube, using either 8mm screws for the Crankshaft Pulley and a couple of 10mm round bar pins which locked into the spokes of the Injection Pulley sprocket. NB: the 8mm screws for the Crankshaft Pulley bolt MUST be screwed into thread on the pulley itself. My first attempt did not use the threaded section resulting in the Pulley distorting due to the fact that parts of if it have an inherent rubber membrane within the metal bits. See photo.

 

5) Do not religiously follow the workshop manual. E.g. I was a bit reluctant to disturb the Injection Pipes on the Injection Pump Assy . After removing the Injection Supply Pump Pulley, I simply pulled the 2 x electrical connections and the 2 x rubber fuel inlet pipes, then I removed the 2 nuts which are located internally on studs attached to the water pump. I then supported the Injection Supply Pump itself by tying it with cord.  TIP: use a small mirror to locate one of the nuts on the pump. The Water Pump and Supply Pump can then be separated. Thus I avoided disturbing the Fuel Inlet Pipe Sub-Assy.

 

6) The parts themselves I purchased:
1 x Blue Print Water Pump ADT39193 2.0 (inc Gasket)  OE No. 16100-29185   £64.25 Note: my engine was a 85kW version
1 x INA Timing Belt Kit 530054310 2.0 L comprising 2 x Pulleys, 1 x Belt & 1 x Vibration Damper (Tensioner)      £99.21        Brand of OE Part  no. 5695171
I bought the above from Buycarspares.co.uk which included vat and delivery. They called me up before shipment to check my car details, which is a good idea. I could have bought a full Water Pump Kit which would have cost £250+, so it was cheaper to buy these parts separately. I could have also purchased these parts from France and Germany, which would have been a bit of a bugger if they were the wrong parts!
7) Other sensible things to do is make a note of the bolt/nut size to help on re-assembly. Keep all your parts separate and labelled. Make notes as you go along, including the position of different length bolts fastening the same component.

 Before re-assembly clean your threads and apply copper ease, after all, it maybe you undoing these bolts/bolts in 60k miles time!

 

8) Take you time. As I did not have the parts in my hand, I took my time dismantling over two days and about a day and a half res-assembling.

 

9) Be prepared for a bit of mess on the garage floor for spilt coolant. I caught the majority of it in a container, but when you remove the Water Pump, the jack holding the engine up means you get run-off around the engine.

 

10) The Upper Timing Cover No.2 is easy to get off but a pig to get back on, because of the collared screws. A tip I found is to plug your 10mm socket with something soft (I used part of piece of ear defender) this will stop the screw head pushing back up into the socket and not engaging) [See Photo]. Also  insert all  screws very lightly, just until they bite, before torqueing up.

 

11) I had one particular problem that threatened to scupper the whole project which is contained within this topic which was basically removing slack between the Crank and the Water Pump pulley. Thanks to those that offered advice , in particular Alan333 and his solution.

 

12) Do a bit of research first. I read a number of posts on this forum and a few videos on YouTube (which were either in a foreign language, not the exact engine type or incomplete). One of the better videos is “Replacing a Denso Diesel Common Rail Fuel Pump”

 

This video includes a number of component removals required in this job.
Would I do this job again?  Yes definitely! Is this the End? Well time will tell.

 

The parts purchased:

 

 

 

 

Homemade tool for holding crank and Injection Supply Pump Pulleys

 

Tool adaption for Upper Timing Belt Cover screws