Paint problems with 2009 IQ

[PeterRF]

Can anyone advise me if there is a common paint defect reported on 2009 IQ models?

On my vehicle the top layers of paint are peeling or delaminating away and exposing the grey (i presume galvanised) primer coat.

For completeness the colour of the vehicle is white.

I noted some comments from people with similar problems on the Toyota facebook pages from 2015. 

Toyota naturally state as a mantra that their paint warranty is for 3 years, which is correct. On the other hand I am not so sure they want to be known as a company whose paint finishes only last 5 years

[craggle]

Welcome to the iQ forum Peter

I have a silver, 59 plate, 2010 model and the paint is perfect still.

What do you know of the history of the car, Have you owned it from new or did you buy it used? 

Also is it peeling all over or just in certain areas?

Craig.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Hello Peter - welcome to Toyota owners Club.

Pictures would help.

I'm not aware of any common paint issues with the IQ. 

There were issues with Solar Red paint on some first generation Auris, but this was where the lacquer peeled rather than the base coat.

Of course, depending when in 2009 the IQ was first registered, it will be between 6 and 7 years old, rather than the 5 you suggested.

[PeterRF]

The car has been owned from new first by my parents in law and then when they stopped driving by myself.

Car is 6 years old according to number plate but I noticed what I thought was some minor damage on side of roof where black plastic is inset in 2015.

It was only this year I saw it was a lot worse and not something which you could cover with touch up paint / started to investigate. So the paint system failed after 5 years and that is the year when there were comments on Toyota facebook pages with some folk complaining about peeling paint.

I have communicated with one of the 2015 complainants and he said Toyota eventually agreed the paint should not fail after 5 years and paid for complete respray. Personally I would be very cautious about buying an IQ made in 2009 especially in white. His and my car both have a white finish.

What is really strange is that Toyota Customer Service show no interest in seeing any photos or independent descriptions of the fault. This leads me to suspect they are already aware of that this type of fault can occur, in fact given they have already paid for a complete respray on another customers car with identical fault, I would say my suspicion is actually a certainty.

If you look at the attached photo you can clearly see where the top layers of paint are flaking off. This damage was made worse when the service manager of my local Toyota dealership on the Wirral (Johnsons) picked at the paint (causing a large piece to fall off) while parroting "the Toyota paint warranty is only for 3 years". But to be fair he was only doing what Toyota says they have to do i.e. always deny responsibility for everything at the start. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Part of the cause may well be that the defect has been left for months, allowing moisture to compromise the paint layers and add to the issue of delamination. 

[PeterRF]

I am sorry but you will not cause paint layers which are properly bonded to separate with water unless there is a very high pressure behind it. Rainfall does not generate such high pressures. In my case there is absolutely no bonding between the primer paint layer and the top coats of paint and if I wanted to I could flake off great swathes of paint with just my thumbnail.  

I am no painting expert but after 33 years in oil and gas industry both on and off shore I know that with a galvanised or zinc rich finish (as the primer layers appear to be) you must etch or take other measures to prepare the surface before any further coatings are applied otherwise they simply will not adhere and flake off - exactly as  on my car. For me it appears what ever paint system or equipment they used at the factory has failed to prepare the surface for some cars possibly also linked to paint colour being used.

Just a pity Toyota did not bother to ask users to check for evidence of this fault once they became aware of the issue. 

[PeterRF]

It is interesting that the IQ forums in North America are full of people with white Scion IQ cars complaining about peeling paint and these are more recent vehicles from 2011/12. There too the consensus opinion is poor primer preparation during the car assembly

[FROSTYBALLS]

As you should be aware from the disclaimer on each page, Toyota Owners Club is not associated with Toyota. Toyota may or may not visit the forum, but, even if they do, they certainly won't respond to any post on this forum.

Your only avenue to take this further is to contact Toyota GB directly.

[sparrow2]

My 59 plate pearl white IQ3 is OK at the moment. In fact, in my opinion, it looks almost as good as it was when it was new!  I have had it from new and it was protected with supagard when new which I top up at least each year with their paint seal cream. It is parked outside most of the time.

Do you know how much it would cost to fix your problem?

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Out of interest, I've done a search using google and bing tonight, searching for 'Toyota IQ paint problems' and Scion IQ paint problems'. From the first eight pages each of the search engines produced, I've identified eight owners with paint issues, two of which were on the front or rear bumper.

[PeterRF]

Off to body shop to get an expert opinion tomorrow. Will let forum know what they say.

Checked with some other UK car sites and this does not appear to be a common problem or folk are not interested in letting others know about their issues

[PeterRF]

The assessor at the Toyota approved paint shop was familiar with the problem of paint peeling on Pearlescent White IQ cars.

They could advise on the extent of respray necessary based upon where they had seen paint peeling from on other vehicles i.e. a full respray was probably unnecessary.

The cost for painting the two side panels (not doors) and the roof was just over £3000 or more than value of the vehicle.

If you are an owner of an 2009 Pearlescent White IQ then I would check your paint work especially on roof very carefully.

If you are an owner who has had this issue then I would be interested in hearing from you and your experiences to date.

[Soeley]

I have a white 2011 iQ, so far not noticed anything wrong with the paint, but who knows in another two years. Seems strange it is just the white that is affected?

[PeterRF]

I have not had an explanation from Toyota but all cars that I know of which suffered or are suffering from this problem are 2009 vintage and have a paint colour which is Pearlescent White.

There is another white which is a "simple" metallic white which appears not to suffer from same problem.

The Pearlescent White is a three part paint system with some flakes in one of the coatings to give a kind of sparkle.

I do not know if other manufacturing years were affected.

[rainy day]

You're not alone.  I have the same problem with my white 2009 IQ. Large chunks of paint coming off on the roof just like in your picture. 

After a visit to my locate dealer and few phone calls to chase them up, we eventually made some progress.  Someone from Toyota GB will inspect my vehicle.  The appointment is in couple of weeks' time.  If you're interested, I'll let you know the outcome.  I'm in Essex, too far away from you, otherwise I'd suggest that you join me for the appointment.  Is your local dealer unwilling to report your problem to Toyota GB?

[Niklas]

+1, 2009  Pearlescent White. Paint is mainly peeling off from the roof but also from the left side below the small rear side window. The roof started peeling this winter when I removed some ice from it. Tried covering it up with white electrical tape, looked bad so I took it off. When taking the tape off ALOT more paint went off the roof and was stuck to the tape, really bad paintjob.

[sparrow2]

Are the problems on 09 or 59 plate cars? My pearlecent white 59 plate car purchased new in December seems OK at the moment.

[PeterRF]

Update on the responses I have had from Toyota GB Customer services and my local Toyota dealership on the Wirral in response to paint peeling from my car

• The local dealers (Johnson's) service representative disagreed when I said it was a manufacturing fault and said it cannot be a manufacturing fault otherwise other cars would be affected. Later I found out that at least three other white IQ cars of 2009 vintage had been resprayed "under warranty" in the past 18 months at the local bodyshop this dealer uses. So It seems highly likely the dealership's staff did know this is a systemic problem afflicting white IQ cars. I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to why I was told the faults on my car were a one off.
• Toyota GB Customer services initially said they were unable to help or give support as a goodwill gesture because the car was outside the 3 yr paint warranty and because it had not always been serviced at a Toyota dealership. There was no mention of any other vehicles suffering the from same problem. They did not explain how having the car serviced at a Toyota dealership would have stopped paint falling off.
• I then challenged them that they had paid for repainting of numerous other vehicles and this must be a systemic problem with Toyota IQ cars made in 2009 and painted with white Pearlescent paint. I also asked why they had not informed their customers when they discovered there was a problem.
• Toyota GB Customer service reply included the following text 
• ...... As you are aware, we have received reports of the symptoms that you have described, leading to a similar nature of failure but we would not refer to this issue as a latent defect as it does not affect every car. We have offered goodwill (by extending the warranty period on the affected components) in certain cases for a period of up to 7 years but I am sorry to advise that we cannot provide assistance on vehicles outside of these guidelines. As your car is over this age, I must confirm that we cannot contribute towards the cost of the repairs on this occasion........
• .......I also understand your comments in relation to believing that a customer contact campaign should have been initiated for this issue but such a process is reserved in the motor industry for safety related concerns where a physical check of the vehicle is required. No customer letters were sent regarding this matter as it is not a safety related concern and does not affect every vehicle.....
• So grudgingly and only because I have done some investigation, Toyota GB do admit there are problems with their paintwork. I challenged them as to why, when I first contacted them around 1st August, this seven year limit was only mentioned in correspondence on 31st August. They did not give any answer nor evidence that this was a decision which pre-dated my contacting them. I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to when this seven year limit was brought in, noting how it so conveniently explains why, even though they paid for paint resprays in the past, they will not do so in the future. 
• I also challenged their explanation for not informing customers, since the last recall of the IQ was to have a modification made because of loss of power not a safety issue. Again I leave it for you to draw your own conclusions about why Toyota have chosen not to warn their customers when they became aware of the problem and then attempted to place a time limit on when claims can be made.

So members "rainy day" and "Niklas" I am very interested in what Toyota have said to you about this issue after seeing your vehicles.

I am also interested in hearing from 2009 IQ owners with white Pearlescent paint, ike sparrow2 , who do not have paint problems if only to see if the problem is limited or affects majority of vehicles of that vintage / paint colour.

I am in contact with a lady in Edinburgh who has same problem and she has also been told sorry but 7 year limit applies. However in her case they have offered to pay for 50% of the repair cost as a goodwill gesture. No such offer was made to myself.

In worst case if Toyota remain obdurate about not rectifying what is a fairly major defect ( respray costs will be a minimum of £3000 for side panels and roof using a Toyota approved estimating system), then we can try the pressure of public opinion via social media / internet forums etc. If anyone affected with this problem has any suggestions as how to develop such pressure then please contact me on ToyotaIQPaintProblems@outlook.com.

If that does not change corporate minds then it should be possible to make a test case through the small claims court which can then be used by everyone having the same problem. That way the costs of the test case can be shared between a number of claimants. The basis of such a case is what time period is it reasonable to expect the paint on a car to stay fixed to the vehicle. The warranty period offered by a vendor can only extend not reduce the customer's rights, hence is irrelevant in arriving at an answer to this question.

ToyotaIQPaintProblems@outlook.com can also be used if anyone wishes to contact me outside this forum. Please remember that we should always be clear what are matters of fact and what are matters of opinion.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Goodwill usually works both ways - the manufacturer may show goodwill by contributing towards out of warranty repairs, and the owner shows goodwill by having their vehicle serviced by the marque's dealer network. This approach is common amongst vehicle manufacturers. Goodwill contributions are at the discretion of the manufacturer, and frequently are handled on a case by case basis, rather than a blanket approach.

An example was the timing chain issue on BMW Minis, where, if vehicles had a BMW service history, BMW would contribute towards repairs on a goodwill basis. If the vehicle did not have a BMW service history, no contribution was forthcoming. This was BMW's response to the BBC Watchdog campaign.

If TOC members have similar paint issues with their IQ, they do need to raise the issue directly with Toyota GB to determine whether Toyota GB will provide any goodwill contribution.

If members wish to become involved in this campaign, they will need to be do this outside of this forum.