Yaris 1.3 mmt auto jerking when start moving

[DanniEl]

Hello everyone! 

I have recently bought  Yaris Zinc 1.3 2007 MMT automatic transmisson and found a problem that bothers me a lot.

When I start moving forward or backward (especially slowly) car jerks. When I add more gas and accelerate sharply jerking is gone, it is also fine when the engine is hot. 

Now, I have read quite lot about jerking and mmt but I could not find some answers so I want to ask :

1. Would initialisation of ECU and clutch help? 
2. Is this really transmission problem? 
3. Would tranny oil change help?
4. In case of changing transmission do I need to buy whole new transmission or just some part (which is gone) and what are the aprox. prices of it ? (I am starting at Uni shortly and thus have very limited budget.) 

Thank you all for your help and advices.

[Devon Aygo]

Does your car creep on its own when releasing the brake pedal and without pressing the throttle? if no then your transmission needs reinitialising 

[MikeSh]

It's not a true automatic, it's a 'manual' gearbox and clutch with electric actuators and a computer to replace the driver in operation of the clutch and gears. So changing the oil is unlikely to help.

It's most likely a problem with the clutch. As Devon says, reinitialising it may help. However, as it's a normal mechanical clutch it may simply be worn out. You don't say how many miles or what sort of use it may have had before you got it, so that info would help.

I will mention that ours (a 1.4D MMT) also can sometimes be a bit sudden when cold, but that is sorted within a hundred yards, so yours does sound excessive.

[DanniEl]

10 hours ago, Devon Aygo said:

Does your car creep on its own when releasing the brake pedal and without pressing the throttle? if no then your transmission needs reinitialising 

No it doesnt, I have found more info about the reinitialising and try it tomorrow.

[DanniEl]

5 hours ago, MikeSh said:

It's not a true automatic, it's a 'manual' gearbox and clutch with electric actuators and a computer to replace the driver in operation of the clutch and gears. So changing the oil is unlikely to help.

It's most likely a problem with the clutch. As Devon says, reinitialising it may help. However, as it's a normal mechanical clutch it may simply be worn out. You don't say how many miles or what sort of use it may have had before you got it, so that info would help.

I will mention that ours (a 1.4D MMT) also can sometimes be a bit sudden when cold, but that is sorted within a hundred yards, so yours does sound excessive.

Currently 80k, it is category D and the previous owner said to me that the car has not been used over a year. He just bought a new car and kept the old one in the garage with the vision of fixing the paintwork and other minor damages, but he better sold it eventually.

[DanniEl]

Wohouu !! Problem solved and it was unbelievable easy. I have initialised ECU and Clutch and car drives like a new. Thank you all !! 

[MikeSh]

Brilliant. Thanks for letting us know.

[jud]

Hi DannEI 

I've just written a very similar post looking for info.
In my case, the front crawl works fine. The problem is reversing. It won't crawl. A little accelerator and it jerks backward initially. 
wondering if a software ECU reinitialisation is needed. Did you do this at a Toyota Dealership or can any dealership do it?

Thanks
Jud

[Henby]

I just bought a Toyota yaris 2006 model dual gearbox (automatic and manual gears). It jerks so much when i gas from a stationary position and when reversing. I'm told that's how toyota dual gear works and the jerking is normal. 

Does anyone has an idea if this is true? or has knowledge on what I can do? Thanks in advance!

Hen.

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 minutes ago, Henby said:

dual gearbox (automatic and manual gears

This would be the Multi Mode Transmission. Rather than a 'dual gearbox', it is a manual with automated clutch.

[furtula]

12 minutes ago, Henby said:

I just bought a Toyota yaris 2006 model dual gearbox (automatic and manual gears). It jerks so much when i gas from a stationary position and when reversing. I'm told that's how toyota dual gear works and the jerking is normal. 

Does anyone has an idea if this is true? or has knowledge on what I can do? Thanks in advance!

Hen.

No, it's not normal to have rough starts like that.

Was it a private seller, or a dealer you bought it from?

[Henby]

private

[flash22]

Its normal tbh unless its awful like a being hit from behind or a learner driver learning clutch control, has it had a clutch in its life ?

I take it you're using 1 foot for the throttle and brake and not both

[Henby]

No, just the right foot on the throttle and brakes.Just been to the garage and was told it maybe a data prob and that maybe the  gear box needs to be reprogrammed by Toyota😟. Sad! 

[Olsums]

TL;DR: I had similar issues to the original post but with a 2007 Auris MMT. I followed this pdf to initialise the clutch and ECU and it seems to have fixed most of the issues.

http://www.partinfo.co.uk/docs/8734

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting so apologies for any conventions I fail to adhere to or lack of depth of knowledge I may display. I simply want to give back after having gained so much from the simple advice of Devon Aygo. 

I own a 2007 auris 'semi'-automatic (mmt) and have dealt with much the same issues as the original post for months. It started with the car no longer pulling away of its own accord upon releasing the hand brake, unless I applied the accelerator slightly. Then I noticed the jumpiness (kangarooing) at low speeds getting significantly worse. As time progress, gear transitions became less smooth, with a noticeable thud/jolt occuring when entering 2nd or 3rd. Occasionally, the car would judder making a very unpleasant sound when taking off, especially on an incline.

I had no experience with diy mechanics, but decided to change the gearbox oil as the car had just passed 60,000 miles and it is supposedly recommended at this mileage (it seemed quite clear to me but again, I am not well versed in such matters). This seemed to make the car smoother within each gear, but made no difference to the gear changes (though this may have been a combination of wishful thinking and placebo).

After finding this thread I resigned myself to researching and attempting the ECU and clutch initialisation mentioned towards the top of the thread.

There seems to be almost no information about MMT Aurises whatsoever, with only slightly more available about Yarises and Corrolas. However, I did manage to find this pdf which suggests their systems are almost identical.

The document outlines the procedure for replacing a clutch in an MMT system. Whilst I hadn't had this done, I believed the symptoms indicated the procedure would benefit me. 

My understanding of what the process does is that it resets the actuator and its associate parts and allows it to relearn the appropriate positions at different rev ranges and when to change gear/ apply the clutch and to what degree.

The procedure requires that you create a short between to pins on the OBD2 port, which can seem scary but needn't be. I managed to find a relatively short wire with narrow ferrules (google if necessary) on each end. 

Following the procedure feels uncannily like following an old Playstation 2 cheat code. It involves pressing the brake pedal repeatedly within specific time frames and listening for beeps to sound from the car to confirm the sequences have been entered correctly (try to ensure you do this in a quiet area so you can be sure you're at the right stage by listening to the sounds).

By working through the document (minus the very first procedure, which it states is for preparing the clutch for removal and thus not relevant for our purposes) the ECU should be reinitialised and so should the clutch system. following the latter process and restarting the ignition, it indicates you should hear the gears changing of their own accord. This is quite an unsettling sound but ultimately seems to have had no negative impact on my car.

The final stage is to manually reteach the system when to change gear. This section made me most nervous as I felt I was entirely under the influence of the traffic conditions of the local area and the procedure requires you to use all gears. I decided to postpone this stage till much later at night when I knew the traffic would be minimal, allowing me to focus on changing at the right road speeds. 

The road speeds seem exceptionally high for the relative gears but I decided to stick to it anyway, and you can certainly feel the car struggling a bit at 16mph in first. However, once the gears have been trained and you drive in 'E', the shift occur much sooner in terms of revs than when you changed them manually to train it. I imagine this is because you manually set the max amount of revs and it uses this as a guideline, though I'm not certain.

Bottom line is, it worked. The jolts upon gear shifts appear to have completely disappeared and the car runs much more smoothly than it did before. The jumpiness in first gear at low speeds does seem to have improved but is not gone entirely (this may be a result of me not training it perfectly or just an inherent issue). Furthermore, the car now pulls off of its own accord without the use of the accelerator. I was especially surprised in reverse gear, where the car takes off with quite some oomph.

I hope this information helps someone and thanks to everyone whose contributed to this thread.

Again, this is the pdf containing the procedure I followed.

http://www.partinfo.co.uk/docs/8734

[Unklian]

I used the above document when my old Aygo MMT had jerky changes. 

Transformed the car to as new condition. 

I believe the clutch actuator is always traveling the same short part of 

it's travel. As part of the procedure, it travels its full length before relearning its new position. 

It truly transformed the car. 

[petroleum]

Hi mate,

i was looking at the forum discussion about if one changes the clutch assembly on the mmt auto and you said after reading the manual again that it might be right that if you dont disturb the actuator then there will be no need to go through a re lean program. Do you still see it that way as i have an Aygo that has a slight jerkiness when moving off in first which might be that the clutch face is slightly contaminated as it doesn't do it when hot.

Are you also saying that when one finally renews the clutch then all these complaints that we experience are much improved after doing so ? Surely the release bearing fork doesn't also have to be replaced with my car which has only done 22000 miles as i noticed an actuator repair set on Amazon with the motor, release bearing and fork! which i thought a strange mix as the release bearing comes with a clutch assembly anyway! Any useful information on this confusing topic would be gratefully received thanks.

[Talhah]

On 9/5/2016 at 3:47 PM, DanniEl said:

Wohouu !! Problem solved and it was unbelievable easy. I have initialised ECU and Clutch and car drives like a new. Thank you all !! 

Hi Danni, 

please I have the same problem please can you call me / SMS or email me I really need your help with the initialising. or if anyone who does see this please can you contact me and help me. 
 I really appreciate it 

tqsoldier8@hotmail.co.uk

07517104382

[nb1]

Many thanks to Oslums for posting the link to instructions http://www.partinfo.co.uk/docs/8734 and to Talhah for helping me with his experience of the process.

Oslums I've no idea how you managed to track that down but thanks so much for sharing.

I actually got a local mechanic friend to help as the instructions contained so many steps that I felt it needed 2 people [one to read out the instructions] - also he has an open road outside the workshop for the gear calibration part. I live in town which would make the strict gearchange speeds difficult to achieve. I imagine that’s a vital part to all this

The result is simply FANTASTIC.

The Yaris MMS seems to be behaving as well as it did when new back in '06.

It was never quite so successful when Toyota reset it, which makes me wonder if they bothered with the road speed calibration part. Strange, this MMT transmission, Toyota told me once that it benefits from being used in manual mode occasionally and that all town driving messes it up. The gear shift sems to get ponderous and juddery as it deteriorates.

I am SO grateful for your help here, I thought the car may be scrap as the cost to replace the MMT (which Toyota told me was the only next step) is very high.

 

great, many many thanks, I've attached the PDF instructions in case the link disappears.

INF12215_GB(Toyota_MMT_reset).pdf

[nb1]

Hi all. The story continues. 
as I mentioned the reset worked really well. But over 6 months it’s deteriorated and has the clunky feeling again. Especially in reverse when cold. 
I did get my pal at the garage to do the reset again but this time it’s not worked. 
The cars done 35K so I guess there may be wear. Has anyone gone further with repairs? Im feeling it’s the clutch or actuator rather than the actual gearbox but it could still be a costly fix. 
any ideas on the cost please. 
any success stories? 
 

thx

neil

[petroleum]

Hi, my car is the Aygo but the system is more or less the same and yes you can strip the actuators on top of the gearbox down and renew the bushes in it which would firm the workings of it or perhaps buy an exchange unit was around £350 from a specialist that advertises on eBay. Its hard to determine the mechanical part which is the real culprit here when we are at least with the Aygo reassured that since the clutch plate was enlarged to 9 inches why then would we not expect it to last at least 80.000 miles like any other car especially with the Yaris which i dont think had any clutch issues or did some of the early ones have the same Aygo engine?

To me with my car although the clutch seems to have plenty of meat on it is like as though the surface of it may be slightly contaminated like oil but was caught in time by me draining over a pint of oil out from the engine let alone if it had been at a higher leval before i became the proud owner of it! Or maybe the clutch face is slightly uneven but it leaves one apprehensive everytime you take off from a start in first to second as theres no racing from the lights with this thing!

  So why dont you go back to a manual? Well theres no joy in that anymore either is there ; stopping and starting all the time in modern day traffic. I cant help think if you found the right mobile mechanic like Albert Williams on Ytube just get them to change the whole clutch assembly and if they cant internalise the re learn sequence do it yourself manually after they've done the main job shouldent cost you more than £350 to 400 all in surely?

I certainly cant see why the relearn system should have altered since as its been set by the ECU, but if you feel the clutch also like mine is no where near slipping or suspect it being unbalanced go for the actuator repair kit or exchange unit first and let me know before i get shut of mine! thanks.

[Stanley47]

Hi Petroleum - where do you buy the replacement brushes/bushes from? 

[petroleum]

Hi, these are the bushes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273764224783?hash=item3fbd9e8f0f:g:FSMAAOSwebdcjS9B

And here is a replacement actuator which i think is the better choice in the long run if your car is old because your are geting the motor as well!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-Aygo-mmt-Clutch-Actuator-Genuine-Toyota-Aisin-Refurbished-2005-14-Mk1-/202740412858?hash=item2f344531ba%3Ag%3AoT4AAOSwx9xhuH2O&nma=true&si=wvGzR6jDsAeqBo56Ymd%2FHXb3vZs%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Now perhaps you can help me! Is this the Autel tool that can Relearn because the standard 808 doesnt mention it like this one. But have you more information that confirms that this tool can do the job as {gearbox relearn could mean different than what we think?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Autel-MK808TS-Diagnostic-Android-Based-Complete/dp/B07LBSVPGG?th=1

i bought a tec stream tool and had to send it back because i couldnt get it to load up the final soft ware and i wasnt on my own as you need to be well clued up computer wise to get passed the set up and no help from the seller 

https://www.obdiitool.co.uk/wholesale/original-vxdiag-vcx-nano-for-toyota.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw-qeFBhAsEiwA2G7Nl84DGqZ8Q4uxuq8mkEaE9paZX0niz-btj-XxNAR1WGTD4W0sZ9jOaBoCv5oQAvD_BwE

[flash22]

Only scan tools that do bidirectional controls can do a relearn - do you have an 808 ? Have you checked the function on Autel's website Autel list it as a iMT reset, under special functions for the mk808 -

Techstream on Windows 10 can be a pig to set up unless you are aware of the workarounds

no issue performing the manual initialization, it may take 2-3 goes to get it right tho

[Stanley47]

Thanks Flash22 for your inputs

Hi Petroleum - thanks for sharing the links for the brushes and actuator.

I had several email exchanges with Autel, I own a Autel AP200 and wanted to check if it will let me initialise and relearn. After several emails I have had Autel confirm AP200 will not but MK808 and above do. I know someone who has MK808, trying to get hold of them to check for me. Launch X431 allows you to initialise and relearn.

Flash22 is right about the challenges with Techstream on Windows 10, I had read this as such I went down the virtual machine (VM) route. I have a version of Techstream installed as a virtual machine, it is setup in Windows XP. Appears to work fine but I don't have a VCI cable to check the connection, hence, my original post to get an answer on which cable works better. I can help you setup the VM, not sure I can post certain links here so best to send me a PM and I will share details.

Looks like we both have similar issues we are trying to resolve, let's join forces. 🙂