Ventilation system

[MetManMark]

Ok - so we have had our new auris TS hybrid icon a week now and we love it. Having read about the different modes I just leave the car in "normal" and leave it alone.  The one thing that I have struggled to understand is the heating system. Could someone please explain as the manual is pretty rubbish at explaining what the heck is going on. Unless I am being a complete numpty. I have a number of questions:

1) If I set the temperature to 20C and the temp outside is say 14 C then I understand that it will use the heat from the engine to warm the cabin. What happens if the temp outside is 20C and you set the cabin temp to 18C but don't push the AC button.

2) I typically set the thing manually - ie where the air is going to go the temp and the fan speed. What does the "auto" button do. The manual mentions that this is a dehumidification function and that it adjusts the vents and the speeds on the basis of the conditions. I don't really understand how this relates to the manual way of doing this. Does "auto" automatically have the AC come on / off when needed?

3) What does the fast / slow button do? This just seems to change the speed of the fans. So isn't this just duplication?

4) In my old car (with AC not climate control) I always used to have fresh air coming into the cabin unless I had the AC on in which case I would use recirculate mode. What is the recommended best practise with the toyota.

 

Sorry for all the questions but I find this a little over-complicated / un-intuitive / badly explained. Hoping that you guys might have some answers that make sense to me :).

 

Thanks in advance

Mark

[mrpj]

Just set the desired temperature, I use 20 degC too. Select "auto" and "a.c." functions and let it do it's thing. If heating or cold air is required then whatever controls the system will regulate as required. If it's really hot in the cabin then the air recirculation function will operate for a while until the temperature falls to the set level. The fan speed and vent positions will also be changed by the controller as necessary.

It might do slightly different things being a hybrid though?

It's a bit pointless having automatic climate control if it's going to be operated manually.

[MetManMark]

Thanks for your reply. It is interesting that loads of people have read the posting but you are the only one to reply. To me this implies that it isn't really clear in the manual. Interestingly i had the heating set to 20C on auto this afternoon. It was raining hard and the windscreen started to must up so I pressed the button that demists the windscreen. At this point the A/C can't on and the blower speed increased.

Mark

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, MetManMark said:

Thanks for your reply. It is interesting that loads of people have read the posting but you are the only one to reply. To me this implies that it isn't really clear in the manual. Interestingly i had the heating set to 20C on auto this afternoon. It was raining hard and the windscreen started to must up so I pressed the button that demists the windscreen. At this point the A/C can't on and the blower speed increased.

Mark

Don't see why you have the air set to recirc when you use the air con. All our new cars since '98 have had air con (13 in total - a mixture of manual and climate control), and we only use recirc on the odd occasion we don't want fumes in our cabin from another vehicle. Using recirc increases the chance of the car misting up.

Have you downloaded the electronic owner's manual which is the full version rather than the shortened version supplied with new cars for the last 12-18 months or so? This may provide more detail on the air con system.

[MetManMark]

I downloaded a user manual before we bought the car as I wanted to read a little more about the car before buying it. I didn't think that what I downloaded was any more detailed than the manual which was supplied with the car. I'll look again though...

Regarding the aspect of using the air conditioning in re-circulation mode when trying to demist the windscreen: in our trusty old saab which is now in car heaven the manual recommended using the AC to demist the windscreen in recirculate mode. I understood that this was because the AC stripped out the moisture from the air such that if it was on recirculate then it was more effective in doing this. If you had the AC on with fresh air coming in from outside it meant that it was permanently dehumidifying air from outside the car which was less effective. This is the logic that has stuck in my head anyway...

M

[FROSTYBALLS]

In my experience, and having a mixture of cars including Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Mazdas, and Hyundais, using the recirc mode makes a car more prone to misting up. This was also reiterated in the owner's manuals.

[Beekeeper D]

It is an auto system, with possible manual over-rides. There are buttons appropriate to both. Not particularly confusing. 

 

If you use the recirculation+aircon function, it should clear the screen fastest, when starting out.

However, with moisture-producing people in the car for any length of time, you will probably need to change the air to remove the continuing moisture production. Its going to depend on the humidity (or more strictly the Dew Point) of the air inside and outside ...  and the dehumidifying capability of the aircon. If you use recirc without the chilling of the aircon, the humidity inside will inevitably increase. 

[Artiom]

13 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

In my experience, and having a mixture of cars including Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Mazdas, and Hyundais, using the recirc mode makes a car more prone to misting up. This was also reiterated in the owner's manuals.

Very true - experienced this when driving on rain.

I am doing exactly the same: climate control is always on; set the desired temperature (20-22 deg is comfortable for me); recirc mode - off. It will cool or warm the car automatically as needed.

Occasionally I can switch on recirc mode to avoid inhaling fumes from another vehicle, also during winter period I am using windscreen defrost.

This turned to be so convenient that my wife set the ultimatum to get the second car with a climate control as well :)

[MetManMark]

Thanks for the replies. So from what people have said I should just hit the auto button and then the AC will come on and go off on it its own accord as and when required.

Still don't think that it is terribly well explained!

M

[Anthony Poli]

Most of the time I leave mine set to 22C and set to auto. With the car on ECO, I rarely need to change it apart from the icy mornings.

[Artiom]

3 hours ago, MetManMark said:

Still don't think that it is terribly well explained!

"Climate control" auto mode means that the ventilation system will engage automatically either air conditioner or the heater to maintain the set temperature that you configured.

To use it you can try the following:

1. Set the desired air temperature (the temperature inside the car cabin)

2. Turn on A/C

3. Turn on Auto on Climate Control

 

Additionally, the "air recirculation" feature means that the ventilation system will take the air from inside the car's cabin, pass it trough filter/heater/etc and blow it again inside via vents. This is useful when the outside air is polluted (fumes from another car or smoke) or when you want to quickly warm the air (as it won't take cold air from outside). The downside is that when the air is recirculated it accumulates the moisture which deposits on cold windows and decreases the visibility. Therefore it is recommended to have the air recirculation off all the time unless necessary.

[MetManMark]

Thanks artiom.i don't want to run the AC all the time so one of my original questions was what happens if I just turn on auto without AC. Will the system then engage AC when required? I think it might as the AC was off the other day and when I put the demister on the AC then came on itself.

M

[Anthony Poli]

Thanks artiom.i don't want to run the AC all the time so one of my original questions was what happens if I just turn on auto without AC. Will the system then engage AC when required? I think it might as the AC was off the other day and when I put the demister on the AC then came on itself.

M

When you use auto, the idea is, the ac turns on and off as required. It might look like it is on all the time. Especially when in Eco mode, you see the fan speed increase and then decrease until it is off. I don't have the dual climate control on mine, but I'm sure on the other one we have it's the same.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alan333]

When you select auto it does everything for you, ie temp, fan speed, air direction and air con on/off as required. However if you change any settings then that particular setting will remain there, ie change the fan speed and it stays where you put it, but everything else stays on auto.  Air con is the same, ie leave it on auto and it does it's own thing, but manually switch it on or off and it'll stay that way.  Except with windscreen demist mode - it automatically turns air con in... But press windscreen demist mode back off and the sytem will revert to it's last setting, and should remember if you've manually switched air con off.  If you press auto again (instead of switching demist mode off) it'll revert to full auto mode.

 

FWIW I find automatic climate control great, but it's not so 'smart' on short journeys since it takes too long to settle to the temp you wanted, and often blasts the fan for your whole short journey.

[MetManMark]

I copied and pasted my initial questions into a the toyota website where you can ask questions. A week later I got a reply telling me that I should go to a dealership and that someone would explain. I was going to reply suggesting that I had really hoped that they would explain by email as I have better things to do with my weekend than go to the nearest dealership but I couldn't be bothered. Somewhat underwhelmed but was mildly amused by the response.

M

[FROSTYBALLS]

One has to bear in mind that sites such as Toyota UK blog, etc are managed by call centre staff who, if appropriate, field initial enquiries and pass complex questions either onto dealerships or onto specialist teams. Doesn't matter who the manufacturer is.

[FROSTYBALLS]

An example of the above was when we had a 2007 Mazda 2. The coil pack was replaced under warranty, and afterwards it was decided the HT lead needed replacing. This lead was subject to a delay of 10 weeks.

At the time Ford owned Mazda, and the European version was built on the Fiesta/Fusion production line in Valencia and shared mechanicals with the Fords. I knew this. 

I contacted the specific case manager at Mazda UK, stated that the 2 was built by Ford, that the 2/Fiesta/Fusion shared mechanicals, and why couldn't the Ford part be fitted, as it was the same part. All the case manager could say was that she had nothing to confirm what I was saying was correct. I asked her to check with Mazda's technical dept.

Later that afternoon, the dealer phoned me to say that Mazda had authorised the fitting of the Ford part and the dealer would have it in stock the next day.

[Beekeeper D]

On 21 September 2016 at 6:30 AM, MetManMark said:

Thanks artiom.i don't want to run the AC all the time so one of my original questions was what happens if I just turn on auto without AC. Will the system then engage AC when required? I think it might as the AC was off the other day and when I put the demister on the AC then came on itself.

M

Not quite. 

With the "Auto" light on (only), it'll try its best, but if it needs cooling the best it can do is max out the fan. It will not (cannot) employ aircon.  

With the "Auto" and "A/C" lights on, it will only actually run the aircon when it needs to (which is what Anthony Poli was indicating). The light simply means "available", not that it is definitely consuming significant power. [SIDENOTE - with an OBD2 reader and, for example Torque software, you can see the aircon power draw at any particular time. The aircon compressor is electric, and runs at reduced power when 'Eco Mode' is selected, but see below! /SIDENOTE] 

The windscreen demist "program" involves running the aircon for fastest screen clearing, so selecting that does immediately engage the aircon (and the light shows that it has become enabled - though you can disable it and over-ride the programmed actions). [SIDENOTE - the demist program seems to use full aircon power, even when Eco Mode is selected.] 

 

It is standard advice (regardless of manufacturer) that it is a good thing for longevity to run the aircon occasionally (perhaps once every month?) and using the windscreen demist from time to time in Winter would appear to be a good way of satisfying that requirement. 

[MetManMark]

Hi beekeeper.i think I am clear now! Auto on and AC on from now onwards. Just let it do its stuff and it will turn AC on and off automatically.

The other day it was quite warm and the had been in the sun. The car was on auto but I hadn't pressed AC. I had thought that it would come one automatically but it didn't. It just blasted us all the way home on fast. Had I had the AC turned on as well as auto I guess the AC would have kicked in for a bit.

I'll give it a go now although we will need some decent weather to trigger it!

Mark

[Cyker]

Yeah, I can confirm that on my Dad's Verso, if Auto is on but not AC, then it will do its best to hit the set temperature without using AC.

It'll only use the AC if that is lit up as well.

Seems sensible given how much fuel AC uses on some cars!

(On my mate's BMW you can practically see the fuel needle drop when the AC is on, whereas my Yaris D4D doesn't seem to notice whether it's on or not )
 

[alan333]

I've never had a car yet where a/c made any difference to fuel consumption.  

[TomdeGuerre]

5 hours ago, alan333 said:

I've never had a car yet where a/c made any difference to fuel consumption.  

Aye but that's up here in Scotland Alan, where the temperature rarely gets above freezing. Might be different for those that live in topical England-shire. 

[Anthony Poli]

3 minutes ago, TomdeGuerre said:

Aye but that's up here in Scotland Alan, where the temperature rarely gets above freezing. Might be different for those that live in topical England-shire. 

Even down here, it doesn't make any noticeable difference.

[Beekeeper D]

On 28 September 2016 at 4:25 AM, alan333 said:

I've never had a car yet where a/c made any difference to fuel consumption.  

The aircon can draw significant power - a few kW (against a max 73kW that the Auris Hybrid petrol engine can develop). Now that could mean max aircon was adding 10/20% to the energy consumption while burbling along extremely gently. In P with a demand for cooling, you'll find the petrol engine starting as the big Battery empties. But whether or not all that shows up against your driving pattern is going to depend on all the usual 'local' factors. 

However, it is taking energy when it is actually cooling, and, if your car isn't a plug-in, the ONLY place that energy can come from is burning more fuel ... (OK, OK ... you might think of running the aircon only after you are well into long descents, like a 'baby B-mode', but be realistic, look at the big picture!) 

[Anthony Poli]

1 hour ago, Beekeeper D said:

The aircon can draw significant power - a few kW (against a max 73kW that the Auris Hybrid petrol engine can develop). Now that could mean max aircon was adding 10/20% to the energy consumption while burbling along extremely gently. In P with a demand for cooling, you'll find the petrol engine starting as the big battery empties. But whether or not all that shows up against your driving pattern is going to depend on all the usual 'local' factors. 

However, it is taking energy when it is actually cooling, and, if your car isn't a plug-in, the ONLY place that energy can come from is burning more fuel ... (OK, OK ... you might think of running the aircon only after you are well into long descents, like a 'baby B-mode', but be realistic, look at the big picture!) 

Being a miser, i am always in Eco mode and set the temperature to 21-22. So it does actually turn off