16 inch

[offashead]

Hi folks. A friend of mine has bought an Hybrid Exel Auris  to be used in the taxi business, this type of car was bought on my recommendation. The guy loves the car except for 4 things, the wheels/tyres.

Mine has the sensible 16 inch wheels his the not so sensible 17 inch ( low profile). He has asked me to ask yourselves ( he might join in later though) if he can put 16 inch steel wheels on the car? I said, I would ask. I know there was some discussion somewhere on these issues but I can't remember or find the outcome. I couldn't give him a definitive answer but, I suggested he call Toyota and his insurance company.

My Auris is still great by the way and will update my report after it hits the 30,000 miles service. Thank you.

[MSHasan]

I had the 17 inch wheels on mine as well but successfully had 16s fitted. I bought a genuine Toyota set of 16 inch wheels that are fitted to the Auris and did a straight swap. No problems.

Didn't bother with insurance malarkey considering these are standard on the lower spec'd version of the Auris, so it's not technically an 'aftermarket' set of wheels as my car could have just as easily had them on at the factory

Cost me £300 for a used (but unscratched) set on eBay. I then flogged mine on gumtree for slightly more.

[FROSTYBALLS]

 

9 hours ago, offashead said:

The guy loves the car except for 4 things, the wheels/tyres.

Presumably these would be eight things..

1 hour ago, MSHasan said:

Didn't bother with insurance malarkey considering these are standard on the lower spec'd version of the Auris, so it's not technically an 'aftermarket' set of wheels as my car could have just as easily had them on at the factory

Depending on one's insurance company, the fact that different sized wheel/tyres are on a different spec is a red herring.

What some insurance companies look at is a change to the original specification of the car - which the above would  be. For example, an extract from a post within the following thread is quoted below:

"I would like to point out to members again, that Toyota Insurance do not accept a change of wheel size from original specification. I have a 2012 Auris HSD T-Spirit with 17" wheels, and enquired about fitting 15" wheels and appropriate tyres for the winter. Toyota insurance will not provide cover for this change. I have concluded that if I want 15" wheels I will have to seek out an insurer that will provide cover for alternative wheels, or change my car for an Auris HSD T4 supplied new with 15" wheels."

[Classic Iron]

Changing to different sized wheels will affect the accuracy of the speedo/odometer and probably, abs, traction control and engine management . This may be why insurers don't like it. I don't know how the speedo is driven on these cars.  In the old days there was a plastic gear driving a cable or electronic sensor. It could all be done by software programming now.

[Countrylad]

12 hours ago, Classic Iron said:

Changing to different sized wheels will affect the accuracy of the speedo/odometer and probably, abs, traction control and engine management . This may be why insurers don't like it. I don't know how the speedo is driven on these cars.  In the old days there was a plastic gear driving a cable or electronic sensor. It could all be done by software programming now.

Changing the rim won't alter the outer diameter of the wheels as long as suitable tyres are selected, so the speedo and odometer shouldn't be affected. The problems usually start when people 'size up' with Ebayed wheels that come with nearly-right tyres. (Too wide, too narrow etc) Those can also mess up your ABS and traction control.

Don't know exactly how the speedo works, but I'll bet you it isn't a cable any more.

[offashead]

Okay. So he may be able to do it. I will see what he has to say. Thanks for your help as always, tricky one really.

[Gerg]

Insurance issues aside, if you run on 205/55 x 16 tyres, then the radius and circumference should be the same as your existing wheels, so no speedo correction needed etc.

But, I have read somewhere that Auris' from the factory on 15" wheels (i.e. 195/65 x 15 tyres) are fitted with smaller brakes, even though the engine power etc. is the same, so your brakes will be too big to fit inside 15" wheels (not what you were asking about 15", I know).

There are really useful lists of compatible wheel sizes (from different cars) on the internet, helping to identify second hand options, but the compatible ones are mostly Toyota and a handful of Suzukis iirc.

And worth knowing that Prius wheels have a different (smaller, I think) bolt size than an Auris.

[FROSTYBALLS]

There are various websites which enables on to compare the effect of changing wheels/tyres on speedometer readings - eg https://tiresize.com/speedometer-calibration/

UK legislation as regards speedometer accuracy is as follows:

"UK legislation requires that the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph.

For example, if the vehicle is actually travelling at 50 mph, the speedometer must not show more than 61.25 mph or less than 50 mph."

[tavy]

225/45 x 17 , 205/55 x 16 and 195/65 x 15 are very similar in terms of wheel radius, so none of them is altering speedometer accuracy.

[Tonyknowstech]

15" wheels can not be fitted to the higher spec Auris because of the brake discs size! Only down to 16" and best is to stick to Genuine Toyota Wheels. For the insurance I wouldn't bother too. 

 

[Heidfirst]

On 27/11/2016 at 9:50 AM, Tonyknowstech said:

 For the insurance I wouldn't bother too. 

In the event of a claim the ins. company would be well within their rights to reject a claim. In theory that could also open you up to a potential charge of driving without insurance...

It is quite possible that that engine/trim etc. has only been certificated on certain wheels (my particular car/trim has only been certificated on certain 18" rims - no 17" at all. I have, however, agreed with my ins. coy after considerable negotiation  that as I am using 17" rims certificated on a mechanically identical [but lower trim] Avensis it is OK).

[Kitko]

I had the same issue with the Executive trim being offered on 17-inch wheels only by Toyota Czech Republic.

Now, typically, there would be an alternative 16-inch specified in the car's registration documentation but it was not so. It's kinda important as winter tires are mandated here and it's customary to go one inch lower for the winter tires/discs.

The dealer urged me to write to the official Toyota importer and, lo and behold, when the car arrived 6-weeks later, Toyota Czech Republic got the car homologated for 16-inch wheels too for the Executive trim.

It's all properly spelled out in the registration doc ... and perfectly legal.

[Konrad C]

On 11/24/2016 at 10:01 PM, Classic Iron said:

Changing to different sized wheels will affect the accuracy of the speedo/odometer and probably, abs, traction control and engine management . This may be why insurers don't like it. I don't know how the speedo is driven on these cars.  In the old days there was a plastic gear driving a cable or electronic sensor. It could all be done by software programming now.

 

On 11/25/2016 at 10:47 AM, Countrylad said:

Changing the rim won't alter the outer diameter of the wheels as long as suitable tyres are selected, so the speedo and odometer shouldn't be affected. The problems usually start when people 'size up' with Ebayed wheels that come with nearly-right tyres. (Too wide, too narrow etc) Those can also mess up your ABS and traction control.

Don't know exactly how the speedo works, but I'll bet you it isn't a cable any more.

The speedo now gets the info from the same sensors used for the abs traction control system. No more cable from the gearbox.

[Classic Iron]

Indeed it does, I spoke to a friend who teaches automotive subjects. Apparently the wheel speed sensors supply info for all the necessary systems. The ecu's are calibrated that the wheels/tyres have certain outside diameter wheel measurements from which it knows the car's speed/distance travelled. Different size rims therefore need the appropriate profile tyres (as tavy points out above) to maintain the overall wheel/tyre diameter to which the ecu is programmed.

Changing from 225/45 X 17 to 205/55 X 16 will still result in a slight change of overall diameter which equates to the car going around 0.2mph slower at an indicated  60mph. If the car was specced to have  either of these wheels/tyre combinations from new then that tolerance is accepted, and part of the type approval, tyre wear will cause similar changes afterall.

The speedo reading is higher than the actual speed, for legal reasons, but the odometer actually records the accurate mileage. Driving the car whilst plugged into a diagnostic machine you can see the actual speed displayed. I have noticed that the GPS on my Auris does not indicate an overspeed until I am about 10% above the speed limit as shown on my speedo so there is large available margin of error.

 

 

[Guest]

Try NFU Mutual for your insurance - knocks spots off any other ones I have tried and they will allow wheel size change and some other alterations like anti-cat cover plates etc.

[Guest]

Ok, I am interested in changing my 2017 Auris 17" wheels to 16" - but is it worth it?

Has anyone done this and can they actually feel the difference in ride quality - using the correct tyres for the 16" of course 205/55R16 as against 225/45 R17?

I changed my previous Prius tyres from 17" to 15" and could tell the difference but it wasn't huge just less thump and a less violent reaction to bumps.

So - any advice welcomed.

Geoff.

 

[Gerg]

I have done exactly this about two years ago.  I thought it was worthwhile.  But this is so very subjective, and I hate cars with even a slightly crashy ride.  I did similar to this on our previous two cars too. (Not Toyotas.)

I also occasionally drive a near-identical Auris on 15" wheels (an Icon trim).  I would take the 15" over the 16", and the 16" over the 17".

But as you know, you can't go from 17" to 15" because the front brakes definitely won't allow it. 

The bigger front brakes do have a better feel than the 15" ones when pushed hard, which is interesting, but not surprising.

In my case, I bought a set of 16" earlier-model Auris wheels/tyres from a breaker.  The insurance company noted the change, but because they were Toyota wheels there was no question of a premium increase at all.  The different spoke design suits it quite well.  There is some loss of turn-in sharpness over the 17", but I have no problem losing this.

[Guest]

Thanks very much for that information.  I realise I can only go to 16" but it does sound as if it is worthwhile - must look for some wheels now!

Regards,

Geoff

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

I have done this change myself last year with genuine Toyota 16” wheels and 205/55 16 tyres against 215/45 17.  I bought my new wheels from Toyota official store on eBay at great price and made it worth any penny. For ride quality and fuel efficiency will really depend a lot of what tyres you are using on, more than the Wheels sizes itself. I was thinking to sell my previous 17” wheels but since they are fitted with winter tyres I decided to keep them and swap them accordingly. Now I did changed the 17” winter tyres with my 16” summer tyres and I lost the comfort of the drive since the weather is freezing cold the smaller 16” summer tyres are more uncomfortable than low profile 17” winter tyres, therefore tyres are ultra important. When temperatures goes up soon the 16” summer set will be better. I can recommend to you thinking about two options: 1.

 keep the same 17” wheels and change to better tyres like Michelin Cross climates 

2. Buy 16” wheels and again some good quality all season tyres, weather so unpredictable these days.

Now is the time to buy wheels, eBay has 15% off, here are my one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223320816564

ends midnight today.

 

[Corolla2004]

Another benefit of going from 215/45 17 to 205/55 16 is that the tyres are cheaper. Black Circles prices for CrossClimates + are £117.54 vs £80.39 respectively. 

[Guest]

Have bought myself a set of 16" wheels and tyres in, what looks like excellent condition although I will certainly fit new tyres anyway.

Question - when I fit these how do I reset the automatic low pressure reader for the valves on the 16" wheels or do I have to transfer the valves from my present 17" wheels?

Geoff.

 

[Roy124]

In winter many European countries require winter tyres.  Some people have two sets of wheels that they swap at the 7 degree point.  Do you tell your insurer if the swap manufacture spec for like in order to comply with the local laws?

Also, if you do notify an insurer of a change of wheel/tyre size, remember to tell new insurers every time you change.

[Guest]

For anyone interested in replacing their 17" wheels with 16" I have now done just that. 2017 Auris Excel Hybrid.

Wheels and tyres secondhand but binned the tyres and fitted New Michelin Primacy 4.  Resprayed the wheels with about four coats and then lacquer.

The valve pressure sensors (already fitted) didn't seem to need any change as the pressures are the same at 2.3bar.

Driving - What I have found is that there seems not to be a lot of difference between the 16" and the 17" other than the "Bangs" with the 17" are now "Thumps" with the 16" and therefore not so jarring. Noise seems to be about the same although I do think the Michelin roar more on rough surfaces but the difference is very slight.  There is, perhaps, slightly more bounce, maybe even roll, with the 16" but overall because of somewhat less "Bang" and a slightly smoother ride I prefer the 16" and for now will stick with them - although I am keeping the 17" in case I change my mind. Certainly on main roads the 16" make for a nicer drive but the side roads round here are often very poor and not level and smooth so the difference is minor on those roads, but again less bang more thump!

My insurance company have no problem with the wheel size change or, for that matter, the Cat cover plate I have fitted and the cat etching as well - NFU Insurance. 

Note: You cannot fit 15" on the Excel Hybrid, 16" is the smallest due the the brake size.

[Guest]

Well, now that I have had a chance to drive the car more with the 16" wheels I find there is rather more difference than first thought.  Certainly a more comfortable ride, bit more bouncy perhaps but certainly better for my rather poor back and not so tiring over longer distances.  Potholes are thumps rather than bangs as mentioned before and the car does roll slightly more on corners but overall well worth while.

I did change the wheels on my previous 1012 Prius T Spirit from 17" to 15" and I found that worth while as well  but, funnily enough, not as good a change as with the Auris from 17" to 16".

Holding on to the 17" for the time being but I suspect I will eventually sell them particularly as they have brand new tyres on them.

[Roy124]

So why are manufacturers fitting ever larger wheels and smaller tyres?  All the time we see people either being advised to change to a smaller wheel/larger tyre.  Is it a styling and marketing ploy or to increase resistance to rolling?

Does a larger alloy and smaller rubber reduce the unsprung weight and therefore improve stated fuel consumptions?