Roadsign assist very inaccurate

[Heart my toyota]

22 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

it's an aid only, you are not meant to rely on it.

I am aware this is what the paperwork says but in real life there are many people let’s just say not “up to date” that will accept any speed limit displayed.  The idea is to make things safer, avoid doubt. 

22 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

"it should never show a speed higher than the national speed limit of the country, in my case the UK" & what if you leave that country & go into another with a higher limit (afaik it does not require a satnav to operate so it doesn't know where you are)?

Hopefully you have a nice time in the other country.  The change of country (and maybe different speed limit) is not an unsolvable problem.  The car can (do) know exactly where it is, most cars have GPS.  It should not be beyond the wit of man to build a GPS (satnav country) feed into the system for a country check.  The speed limits of many countries are already preloaded on the system, that information is already available. Therefore all the information required for a national max speed limit check is already available.  

22 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

It's a Continental AG system. No doubt it will improve as we progress from generation to generation

You will find similar complaints about the same (or similar) system in other manufacturers' cars ...

I'm sure it will improve because Toyota is a Japanese company, they have pride in their work.  Once one manufacturer fixes this issue, I'm sure the rest will follow.  To rely on the (lack of) intelligence of people is a bad idea.      

[Heart my toyota]

21 hours ago, 16_Auris_HSD said:

I'm glad manufacturers don't offer built in dashcams (except Citroen) since as with most these things it starts as a great idea and ends up being abused. For example the "ordered by police" bit is applicable to when police stop you, I know of instances where HGV drivers were requested to show the footage to the police when stopped and it was only to help the police "judge" the skills of the driver.

I can see both sides of the discussion but since I've got many miles on my clock, my driving is now not far off 'driving miss Daisy'.  I'm seeing too many "brave" doing dangerous things on the road and I'm missing out on getting good footage for Youtube.  I will go for such an option . . . . that is until I lose my marbles, then I don't want it any more.    %-O     

[Heidfirst]

2 hours ago, Heart my toyota said:

I am aware this is what the paperwork says but in real life there are many people let’s just say not “up to date” that will accept any speed limit displayed.  The idea is to make things safer, avoid doubt. 

These are the same people that follow their satnavs into rivers .... they are beyond hope  

Hopefully you have a nice time in the other country.  The change of country (and maybe different speed limit) is not an unsolvable problem.  The car can (do) know exactly where it is, most cars have GPS.  It should not be beyond the wit of man to build a GPS (satnav country) feed into the system for a country check.  The speed limits of many countries are already preloaded on the system, that information is already available. Therefore all the information required for a national max speed limit check is already available.  

Absolutely agree that it should be doable if the car has satnav with an up to date local database (all new EU cars will shortly have location ability via eCall but they won't all have satnav). However, what if the buyer/owner doesn't want to pay for  built-in satnav/prefer phone apps/standalone satnav then you would deny them the ability to have RSA should they so wish? At least the current Continental AG system allows a car to have TSS with RSA without having to have satnav.

I'm sure it will improve because Toyota is a Japanese company, they have pride in their work.  Once one manufacturer fixes this issue, I'm sure the rest will follow.  To rely on the (lack of) intelligence of people is a bad idea.      

As Frosty said there will be an updated system entering production during 2018 & as Devon Aygo said Toyota are aware of the issue on your (Denso based) system & apparently a fix is forthcoming.

 

[kithmo]

The road sign assist is a toy or gimmick that's not of any use in it's current form, to me it's the same as having illuminated sill plates, they look nice, but I don't rely on them to illuminate my way in to the car. If you have an up to date sat nav (not the Toyota inbuilt one as it's two years out of date when it's updated), then you can use the speed limit displayed on the screen to remind you what the limit is if you missed a sign. 

[Suew]

Have the same problem on brand new Prius Excel . System works perfect on my BMW but joke on Toyota. Dealer says speed recognition camera can be recalibrated at the service workshop we will see shortly if true. Toyota service H Q seemed unaware of the problem when contacted so surprised to see a post saying a fix is being worked on.

[Heidfirst]

31 minutes ago, Suew said:

Have the same problem on brand new Prius Excel . System works perfect on my BMW but joke on Toyota. Dealer says speed recognition camera can be recalibrated at the service workshop we will see shortly if true. Toyota service H Q seemed unaware of the problem when contacted so surprised to see a post saying a fix is being worked on.

Hi Sue, welcome to TOC 

It's certainly not only on Toyotas that it is currently of limited use as I have read owners of various marques complaining about similar systems on their cars. Personally, I don't see how recalibrating a camera can help as it isn't measuring anything but reading & displaying what it sees. If there isn't a sign for it to read or if it sees something resembling a speed sign (e.g. limit sign on the back of a truck etc.) in it's field of view it may well display in error.

[PeteB]

12 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

...If there isn't a sign for it to read or if it sees something resembling a speed sign (e.g. limit sign on the back of a truck etc.) in it's field of view it may well display in error.

 

On 12/01/2018 at 11:51 AM, kithmo said:

... illuminated sill plates, they look nice, but I don't rely on them to illuminate my way in to the car...

I finally switched off my RSA a few weeks ago and now benefit from the split screen feature instead, usually showing the ECO gauge.  I got quite fed up with it hiding the ECO gauge in the HUD when exceeding an incorrectly identified limit too.

Prior to that, I made a point of looking for obvious things that could have fooled the sign recognition (sometimes even checking on my dash-cam), but almost always there's nothing I can see, certainly not a vehicle with the limit sticker on it.  It is sometimes fooled when passing a roundabout and picks up the limit for an exit that I pass.

As I said earlier in this thread, some days it feels like the computer is overloaded like a busy Windows PC and it keeps on displaying the wrong speed even when passing several signs it normally recognises, that are very clear and prmonient.

BTW it doesn't seem, to pick up no overtaking signs at all (not on the UK system, anyway).

I got the illuminated sill lights, but just because they look so cool and fit nicely with the coolness of the car [*].  Your quite right, they don't actually do anything useful, but hey, a little madness now and again...

[*] I still think on such a tekky car it seems wrong to have to open a door and climb in when one ought to be able to beam aboard!

[FROSTYBALLS]

The second generation TSS will begin to be rolled out from 2018, but as far as I'm aware, won't be a retro fit option for current models.

[ian rooke]

Hi the RSA will pick up the no overtaking signs or a second sign when reading a speed sign this is shown on the dash as a sign behind the speed sign but slightly to its right so it looks like a new moon shape to the right of the speed sign  unfortunately it cannot be read so a total waste of time. My RSA is wrong 60% of the time with readings between 5 MPH to 130 MPH as well as end of speed limit sign for 130 MPH which as far as I know is a sign which does not exist . The camera can be re-calibrated as when my screen was replaced they did it it took 3 hours and £240 (if not in the cost of the screen replacement ) I know it is a aid to driving but not when it is wrong so often it is dangerous and a big disappointment.   

[FROSTYBALLS]

At times, my sat nav will pick up and display speed limits (and warnings for exceeding said speed limits) for adjacent roads - for example at some motorway junctions. One can usually tell that the warning is for an adjacent road. Wouldn't necessarily describe these inaccurate warnings as being dangerous, and if one considers it is, one can turn off RSA. 

[Heart my toyota]

14 hours ago, Suew said:

 

Hello Sue, 

I switched the warning from it off because it was doing my head in with being dangerously wrong too many times.  

“Dealer says speed recognition camera can be recalibrated at the service workshop we will see shortly if true.”

It has nothing to do with the camera.  I wonder if that dealer thinks you will be happy because they look as if they are trying to help you when surely they know they are not able to fix the problem.      :-(      The flaw is in the design of the software system itself, it is not using the information already available to it. 

Just the other day on a 40 mph road in the country, I drove past two 30 mph signs (one either side of the road) with farmland around.  There were no houses, no buildings or any other vehicles around that could have influenced the system to get a wrong reading.  The in my opinion dangerous system, changed to 120 mph as I passed the two 30 signs going into a 90 degree sharp right bend in the road !     :-O       :-(     

“Toyota service H Q seemed unaware of the problem when contacted so surprised to see a post saying a fix is being worked on.”

That is a blatant lie unless they told their employees on these forums, at the dealerships and customer support NOT to tell them about it. 

This is our third Rav.  We’ve had Ravs for more than 20 years and we always had them serviced on time by Toyota.  Each one was robust reliable for 10 years or just over 100,000 miles then they fall apart to the point where with the first one Toyota did not know how to fix a problem with the brakes !?! and the second one it would have been too expensive to get everything fixed Toyota said needed fixing, not including a strange noise coming from the engine. 

Those Ravs were solid and Toyota’s service was excellent.  We loved and uuuuuused those cars.  We stuck with Toyota because of our experience with them in the past but I’m not sure I will be Toyota brand loyal when we come to replace this Toyota.  Look this new Rav is a lovely car to drive but I noticed some cutbacks on quality on it, I will be surprised if this fancy machine lasts as long as it’s two predecessors.  Going on how Toyota’s employees are defending the ridiculously inaccurate speed display system, I’m sadly getting the feeling Toyota is not valuing quality (their reputation) as before.      :-(((   

[ian rooke]

Hi my opinion of the RSA being dangerous is based on when first used  the driver has no idea how inaccurate it is .Once used for a time you can chose to ignore it . 

[PeteB]

1 hour ago, Heart my toyota said:

...Going on how Toyota’s employees are defending the ridiculously inaccurate speed display system, I’m sadly getting the feeling Toyota is not valuing quality (their reputation) as before.      :-(((   

Which is why I didn't even bother reporting it to them.

I must say for Toyota to sell a car with such a poor quality system (along with the auto dip and auto lights) does heir reputation more harm than simply not offering these systems at all.  I would be embarrassed to work for a company that thought it was ok to give their customers such rubbish features.

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 hours ago, Heart my toyota said:

"Toyota service H Q seemed unaware of the problem when contacted so surprised to see a post saying a fix is being worked on.”

That is a blatant lie unless they told their employees on these forums, at the dealerships and customer support NOT to tell them about it. 

Going on how Toyota’s employees are defending the ridiculously inaccurate speed display system, I’m sadly getting the feeling Toyota is not valuing quality (their reputation) as before.

For clarification:

1). Toyota Owners Club is a separate entity to Toyota and neither represents Toyota nor has any connection with Toyota. There is a disclaimer to this effect on the Home page and at the bottom of each page.

2). There are two Toyota dealer employees who contribute to the forums - Parts-King and Devon Aygo. Parts-King works for Lindop Toyota, one of the club's sponsors, and can provide Toyota parts at a small discount to TOC members. Devon Aygo is one of the moderators, and contributes both as a member and moderator voluntarily.

3). Other staff including myself are Toyota owners. My background is in contract management and procurement for National Government.

4). Toyota themselves won't contribute directly to these forums, and we don't know whether they even visit the forums.

If you're unhappy with any of the above, perhaps Toyota Owners Club isn't for you.

 

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, Heart my toyota said:

“Dealer says speed recognition camera can be recalibrated at the service workshop we will see shortly if true.”

It has nothing to do with the camera.  I wonder if that dealer thinks you will be happy because they look as if they are trying to help you when surely they know they are not able to fix the problem.      :-(      The flaw is in the design of the software system itself, it is not using the information already available to it. 

This I would tend to agree with. The camera can be re-calibrated which probably affects other features but I don't see it  for RSA which is an image recognition system, re-programming the system now ...

Having said that, my car has a system from Continental AG & the Prius has a system from Denso - 2 of the largest & market-leading oem electronics designers/suppliers for auto manufacturers & neither system works perfectly, yet. I am still unconvinced that there is really a need for a system such as this for a human driver (no doubt autonomous cars will need one) & any competent driver driving in the UK should know that e.g. a 130mph speed limit being shown is in error & ignore it.

[Heart my toyota]

On 2/19/2018 at 12:38 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

4). Toyota themselves won't contribute directly to these forums, and we don't know whether they even visit the forums.

If you're unhappy with any of the above, perhaps Toyota Owners Club isn't for you.

 

Correct me where I’m wrong and I accept it, however.

I think people can decide for themselves the odds of Toyota or their agents not looking at the Toyota Owners Club website.  But lets for a moment accept they are not (ignoring you say there are Toyota agents on this website), the question then is why does Toyota not care enough about what their customers say to monitor it.  Not even mentioning the many people that already told Toyota HQ and/or their agent of the misleading speed display including myself.  As I said, people can decide for themselves the odds of Toyota HQ not being aware of the problem. 

If this website is a “safe space” for Toyota, agents and this website’s employees where Toyota owners are not allowed to tell the truth/facts of their findings with their own Toyota, give their views and chat with other Toyota owners, I put it to you this agree with our singalong or else “safe space” website can’t be called a Toyota owners club.  
 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Believe what you want.

I have never stated that Toyota are unaware of issues with TSS, so don't misquote me.

There are various forums including those on Facebook that Toyota owners use, and I would suggest that Toyota would probably make use of their own customer contact avenues, where they can interact with customers, rather than actively monitor owners clubs, etc. This way they can track what they say to customers, rather than have an uncoordinated approach. It isn't rocket science.

In my time on Toyota Owners Club, there has never been any direct response from Toyota to any topic on these forums.

If one doesn't feel that this or any other club enables one express one's opinions, then one may choose not to contribute. That is one's choice.