Vibration at 2000rpm - again and again

[ghsaunders40]

I agree some iQ's are great.

However mine is not, it one was a fine little car. No one at Toyota can put it right after many weeks of trying, 3

Different garages, a tech from Toyota engineering and rebuilds of the cars interior and drive train etc, the solution was to 'get rid'.

My iQ is that bad I actively choose to not take the car and if my car is being driven by my wife, I catch the bus.

Wish we had held on to our trusty little Aygo now....

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[Grumpy Cabbie]

It's a tricky one and I feel for ghsaunders. On internet forums you have to try and filter out trolls from genuine owners BUT if a genuine owner has a rare fault that doesn't make them a troll.

I remember getting absolutely blasted on a large US based Prius forum for reporting that my inverter had blown and that my Battery was showing early signs of failure at relatively low mileage. I'd been on the forum for years and posted many thousands of posts, but as soon as I was even critical I was declared a troll. wtf. As it turned out, my inverter failure was just the tip of the iceberg and since all gen3 Prius's have been recalled due to the inverters getting over stressed.

So just because you or I don't experience a problem with our own car, certainly doesn't mean that other owners are having trouble with theirs.

I'm wondering if this is a design fault with the IQ? Or a repair that could be expensive to fix more like?

Shame as they are a lovely car.

[Soeley]

I've had a massive list of parts replaced. See honest johns car by car review for the list as it's extensive. They cars engine and interior has also been rebuilt. We're at our wits end. So it's bye bye iq.

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Found this Honest John IQ review as stated above:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/toyota/iq-2008/

Updated in 2014, however it does not say how many IQ's affected.

I just wonder if the author of the comment about the 1.3 6 speed manual gearbox has down sized from a 2 liter diesel? Me personally don't find myself having to change gear too often. You can do a steady 30 mph on the flat in 6th gear, obviously if you hit an incline you have to change down, I do wonder if people realise you can drop from 6th to 2nd if need be for acceleration?

To me changing gear is a major part of the fun factor of driving, not knocking those that choose auto's, just my preference.

[ghsaunders40]

Interesting. You've been having a look at my profile. Yes, I do drive a 2.0 diesel. Also, I started the thread In the 1st place. Just to reiterate this is a real vehicle suffering from very real problems and costing me depreciation for something we get no joy out of.

Gh.

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[Soeley]

Interesting. You've been having a look at my profile. Yes, I do drive a 2.0 diesel. Also, I started the thread In the 1st place. Just to reiterate this is a real vehicle suffering from very real problems and costing me depreciation for something we get no joy out of.

Gh.

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Sorry, I was referring to the comment on the HonestJohn link that Bob posted. I haven't looked at your profile, so the fact I said 2 litre diesel is a coincidence.

Perhaps my post was slightly off topic as I was just picking up on that one comment about "having to change gear too often". As for you problem with the shakes I do have sympathy for you and wish you could get it resolved so that you could enjoy your iQ.

Sorry for giving the wrong impression.

[bobkneale]

Changing gear often in my IQ is the only exersise I get !

[bobkneale]

Was there ever a satisfactory conculsion to the shaking IQ at 2000 RPM ?

Or was the car sold / got rid of without the problem being resolved ?

[ghsaunders40]

Car changed today to a fiesta ecoboost. Thankfully!

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[michael oo7rh]

I have just bought a IQ (59) for my daughter and it has the same shaking between 1800 to 2000 rpm in each gear. I took the car to Toyota main dealers who said its not a known problem and they had just carried out a service (oil change only) and test drive, they had not noticed any shakes. For £120 + vat they would check the car out. I got the feeling this mysterious issue! could lead me down an expensive road. I do not like main dealers playing dumb. Don't dealers look at forums?

I have carried out some tests and have come to the conclusion so far that the shaking is caused by a consistent engine vibration at the rpm mentioned. My guess is that this characteristic (problem) relates to the 3 cylinder engine variable timing management which I think is a necessary engineering control to balance this type of engine.

Come on Toyota tell us on this forum how to fix this.

[bobkneale]

I have just bought a IQ (59) for my daughter and it has the same shaking between 1800 to 2000 rpm in each gear. I took the car to Toyota main dealers who said its not a known problem and they had just carried out a service (oil change only) and test drive, they had not noticed any shakes. For £120 + vat they would check the car out. I got the feeling this mysterious issue! could lead me down an expensive road. I do not like main dealers playing dumb. Don't dealers look at forums?

I have carried out some tests and have come to the conclusion so far that the shaking is caused by a consistent engine vibration at the rpm mentioned. My guess is that this characteristic (problem) relates to the 3 cylinder engine variable timing management which I think is a necessary engineering control to balance this type of engine.

Come on Toyota tell us on this forum how to fix this.

Regarding the "possibility" of shaking caused by Engine Mgt for 3 cyl ? Are there any 4 cylinder IQ's out there with the same problem ?

[neelix]

My car is a 3 cylinder and has exactly the same vibrations. My Toyota dealer spoke about a gearbox or clutch problem.

I don't think so.It can't be the gearbox because if there is a fault in the gearbox you will feel vibrations the whole time.

But that isn't the case.

On the German forum they have the same issues about the vibrations but not a solution.

The 2009 models have some issues.

Beside the vibrations the car is excelent.

[bobkneale]

If anyone has this 2000 RPM vibration problem on a 4 CYL IQ please let us know. That might help everyone narrow it down towards from "Possible Causes" towards more "Probable Causes and eventually the "Root Cause" after final verification.

[Soeley]

My 1.33 4 cylinder has never had it.

It been a 3 cylinder I'd place a bet on it being a balancing issue?

[bobkneale]

My 1.33 4 cylinder has never had it.

It been a 3 cylinder I'd place a bet on it being a balancing issue?

If we assume for a moment it is "3 cyl only" & a balancing issue, i thought that the balance of a 3 cyl was mechanicaly controlled (fixed) however i guess it can be influenced by other factors ? Does anyone know ?

[michael oo7rh]

I test drove another 3 cylinder IQ 2010 which had 36k miles on the clock with full service history at Toyota Main Dealers. It also suffered with vibration at 1800 to 2000 rpm, although it was not as bad as my daughters.

I noticed that with both cars the engine idles a bit rough and the low down revs power delivery is not great. This all means both cars cannot be driven calmly in a smooth, fuel efficient way around town.

This vibration issue is further exacerbated by the lack of build quality of the interior and the tolerances of exhaust heat shields.

I further conclude that premature engine wear and inaccurate sensor signals may be contributing to the engine management systems ability to regulate the engine properly.

I would love to pull this car apart and investigate this matter further, but it would affect the warranty terms.

I have discussed this with the non Toyota dealer I purchased the car from, and he agreed to take the car back and give me a full refund which I accepted and was appreciative of this gesture.

If I was to keep the car I would consider the following.

Carry out a full diagnostic test.

Changing all the spark plugs.

Carry out a cylinder compression test.

Replacing sensors, one at a time.

Replace engine mountings one at a time.

I hope this article is of help for sufferers and those thinking of buying a 3 cylinder IQ.

By the way I have just test drove a second hand Fiat 500L which in my opinion is a far better car altogether.

[tarquin]

Are we noticing this on a manual version only? Last year my local dealershipi that i know most of the people there on a friendly level. The service manager saw me in the car park and said that the dealers have had a communication that there is a clutch problem that has been high lighted and asked if i had any juddering or vibration. I said mine was a multi-drive. He said no known problem with those. He offered to have the car repaired free if i was experiencing a problem.

David

[johnan]

My first 2009 IQ had no vibration problems, or my previous Aygo (same basic engine) for that matter, up until I traded it in in 2011.

My next IQ , which was the updated 2011 model has never had a vibration problem.

The lack of power and clean pickup at low speeds is due to the well known EGR troubles of the earlier models, perhaps this also has an effect on the likelyhood of rough running as the engine builds up deposits etc, with age.

They changed quite a bit from the first models to the second generation ones (2011 on), the redesigned EGR valve being one example of this.

[ghsaunders40]

That's a good point. Mine also had the updated egr and manifold fitted that made the vibrations ultimately worse....

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[michael oo7rh]

EGR in spark-ignited engines

The exhaust gas, added to the fuel, oxygen, and combustion products, increases the specific heat capacity of the cylinder contents, which lowers the adiabatic flame temperature.

In a typical automotive spark-ignited (SI) engine, 5 to 15 percent of the exhaust gas is routed back to the intake as EGR. The maximum quantity is limited by the requirement of the mixture to sustain a continuous flame front during the combustion event; excessive EGR in poorly set up applications can cause misfires and partial burns. Although EGR does measurably slow combustion, this can largely be compensated for by advancing spark timing. The impact of EGR on engine efficiency largely depends on the specific engine design, and sometimes leads to a compromise between efficiency and NOx emissions. A properly operating EGR can theoretically increase the efficiency of gasoline engines via several mechanisms:

• Reduced throttling losses. The addition of inert exhaust gas into the intake system means that for a given power output, the throttle plate must be opened further, resulting in increased inlet manifold pressure and reduced throttling losses.

• Reduced heat rejection. Lowered peak combustion temperatures not only reduces NOx formation, it also reduces the loss of thermal energy to combustion chamber surfaces, leaving more available for conversion to mechanical work during the expansion stroke.

Reduced chemical dissociation. The lower peak temperatures result in more of the released energy remaining as sensible energy near TDC (Top Dead-Center), rather than being bound up (early in the expansion stroke) in the dissociation of combustion products. This effect is minor compared to the first two.

It also decreases the efficiency of gasoline engines via at least one more mechanism:

• Reduced specific heat ratio. A lean intake charge has a higher specific heat ratio than an EGR mixture. A reduction of specific heat ratio reduces the amount of energy that can be extracted by the piston.

EGR is typically not employed at high loads because it would reduce peak power output. This is because it reduces the intake charge density. EGR is also omitted at idle (low-speed, zero load) because it would cause unstable combustion, resulting in rough idle. The EGR valve also cools the exhaust valves and makes them last far longer (a very important benefit under light cruise conditions).

Since the EGR system recirculates a portion of exhaust gases, over time the valve can become clogged with carbon deposits that prevent it from operating properly. Clogged EGR valves can sometimes be cleaned, but replacement is necessary if the valve is faulty.

[simonb2577]

Hi,

My car is a IQ '59' plate 1.0 on 30000 miles. It has exactly the same problem around 1800rmp - 2000rpm in first and second gear. I took it to my main dealer and they were very dismissive, saying its a 3 cylinder and its normal. They told me to put super unleaded fuel in because they run better and might reduce the vibration tin noise at specified RMP.......... 600 miles later........no change. I returned back to the garage and they said they had spoken to Toyota technical and there was no reported faults. They offered me no solution or further advice, apart from replacing the engine and gearbox mounts, which I had to pay for. This was not a guaranteed fix and would set me back nearly £1000 plus vat! I took the car to another garage and they said that it wouldn't fix the problem as all the mounts look brand new and were secure. They looked everywhere on the car and couldn't find anything obvious wrong and said to take it back to Toyota. I wrote an email to Toyota complaining and they were not sympathetic at all when they phoned me. The adviser over spoke me and didn't listen to me at all saying the technicians at Toyota have investigated the problem and could hear and witness the problem but could diagnose it, except offering to replace the engine mounts.

The fault became apparent after 2 weeks of driving it and because they couldn't guarantee what the fault was it wasn't covered under warranty. I have owned the car now for 16 months and it is a fantastic little car but with a majorly annoying noise and awful after sales service. I will definitely not buy another Toyota.....ever....because of the aftersales.

[kash123]

Hi,

My car is a IQ '59' plate 1.0 on 30000 miles. It has exactly the same problem around 1800rmp - 2000rpm in first and second gear. I took it to my main dealer and they were very dismissive, saying its a 3 cylinder and its normal. They told me to put super unleaded fuel in because they run better and might reduce the vibration tin noise at specified RMP.......... 600 miles later........no change. I returned back to the garage and they said they had spoken to Toyota technical and there was no reported faults. They offered me no solution or further advice, apart from replacing the engine and gearbox mounts, which I had to pay for. This was not a guaranteed fix and would set me back nearly £1000 plus vat! I took the car to another garage and they said that it wouldn't fix the problem as all the mounts look brand new and were secure. They looked everywhere on the car and couldn't find anything obvious wrong and said to take it back to Toyota. I wrote an email to Toyota complaining and they were not sympathetic at all when they phoned me. The adviser over spoke me and didn't listen to me at all saying the technicians at Toyota have investigated the problem and could hear and witness the problem but could diagnose it, except offering to replace the engine mounts.

The fault became apparent after 2 weeks of driving it and because they couldn't guarantee what the fault was it wasn't covered under warranty. I have owned the car now for 16 months and it is a fantastic little car but with a majorly annoying noise and awful after sales service. I will definitely not buy another Toyota.....ever....because of the aftersales.

I have the exact same problem. Seems to be becoming quite common now.

[fatlipsoup]

hi there i changed the plugs what a difference it still has a vibration around 2000 rpm but its a lot nicer to drive quite honestly i am going to change the plugs around 25000 miles in the future, the vibration is fine i just put that down to the engine mounts getting older harder and compressed at 53000 miles

[bobkneale]

My View:

My Spark plugs were changed at about 40,000 miles because I just choose to, no other reason, I only use Shell V Power and put in BG44 fuel cleaner every 6 months, plus my EGR has been changed for the modified type.

My miles are now 44,000 and I do have a "very slight" vibration in high gear at low speed at about 2000 RPM that is hardly noticable and not an issue, just a sign to change down a gear.

I personally feel that the 3 cylinder manual IQ is "slightly more prone to this 2000RPM vibration issue" with a number of "potential contributing causes" that can make the problem worse.

I believe that regular maintenance in excess of toyota's standard recomendations plus a good quality and cleaning fuel, can reduce the chances of the problem occurring. Of course hardened rubber engine mountings could also be a contributing factor.

Unless of course there is completely different cause we are totally unaware of ?

[tarquin]

Is this Vibration issue not prone to manual versions only? I recall about 2years ago the manager of the service dept at my local dealer came up to me and said " we have just found out there is a clutch problem with the iQ causing it to judder" and "would i like mine sorted out". " its only just come to light across the dealerships". I said mine was multidrive and he said " the judder at certain rev's only effects manuals. Your ok". So there may also be a Bulletin sheet out there for that as well as the EGR issue

David

[flybywire]

So many topics on this but I have just bought a 2010 IQ 1 Litre manual with 3500 miles and it is making the infamous vibration noise at just on 2000 rpm .  I love the car and it behaves perfectly apart from when going through 2000rpm when it vibrates.  I have tried V-power and redex but no change.  The car has the later EGR valve.  There are so many posts on the topic in the forum but none seem to have come up with the definitive answer - clutch, EGR, mounts  3 pot engine which is unbalanced.  Before I spend out on a new clutch or EGR valve has anyone found out what the cause is?  As I say, it is a fantastic car but having to work round the 2000 rpm vibration is a pain which Toyota should have fixed.