Vibration at 2000rpm - again and again

[We-go]

As a follow up, I asked the garage to have a good look at my old clutch to see if there was anything that might be the root cause of the problem. He has come back to me and said that the old clutch looks fine and can only suspect that the springs may have lots their strength but has no way to test them.

But, as I said, the car is a delight to drive now and is transformed. As an aside, I owned a 10 plate 1 ltr three cylinder Aygo and there never was any sign of a 2000 rpm vibration in the 98k miles I drove. While my clutch was being done, I was lent a new Aygo but I felt that the IQ is quieter and more refined that the new Aygo!

[FROSTYBALLS]

13 hours ago, We-go said:

I was lent a new Aygo but I felt that the IQ is quieter and more refined that the new Aygo!

The IQ was always priced higher than the Aygo, was never a direct competitor, and, in fact competed with the mid range Yaris trims on price. If the IQ were still produced today, albeit in a different form to the 2008-2014 model, it would probably be priced at a similar level. So you're not comparing like with like.

Having said that, it will be interesting to see how Toyota have developed the new Aygo X being unveiled next month - which shares the Yaris platform.

[We-go]

So you're not comparing like with like.

This is a light hearted comment. I am comparing an eight year old car with a brand new 2021 car. I just felt that the new Aygo was noisier and the seats less comfortable that my IQ. Of course, my IQ doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a new car has.

[Cyker]

The IQ's interior was much nicer than the equivalent Yaris - I remember it feeling more like half an Avensis!  

I have a feeling the dampening springs in the clutch friction plate (The 4 springs in the middle around the hub) is what your mechanic is talking about; Certainly if those go bad it will affect the smoothness of the clutch very noticeably (Like when the springs fail in a DMF/dual-mass flywheel - Very noticeable!!). It's not unknown for them to snap/shear off, or even ping out of their holders! Some high-spec clutchs encase them so there's no risk of them popping out!

If it fixes the problem it's not a waste of money - I had the clutch changed on my old D4D one time, and the friction plate had a lot of material left so I had that feeling too, but then I saw the clutch cover and half the diaphragm spring fingers had practically collapsed on one side which was why it felt like it was slipping!

[John George Brewster]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:51 PM, wililiams said:

Update:

After the quote of £350 I took the iQ straight to QuickLane in Gorton, Manchester. A day's work and the mechanic admitted they'd underquoted the job but we're happy to stick with the agreed price.

New LUK clutch and slave cylinder fitted. Feels like a new car. Vibration at 1500-2000rpm gone. Very happy!

Hi, it's been a few months since fitting a new clutch, any problems to date? I'm biting the bullet and getting one fitted on Tuesday. His garage is a few hundred metres from my house.

[wililiams]

Hi John,

None at all, genuinely feels likes a new car. Hope you get to experience the same sense of relief!

[John George Brewster]

2 minutes ago, wililiams said:

Hi John,

None at all, genuinely feels likes a new car. Hope you get to experience the same sense of relief!

Hi Tom, thanks for getting back, I had enough of the racket, I was qouted 500, so fingers crossed. I'll let you know if it goes well or not.

[John George Brewster]

**Update**Not a happy chappy**

Got up nice and early looking forward to handing over my baby to the garage only to find that the guy  informing me that the quote has gone from £500 to £900, Strange the Toyota garage quoted me £700. Apparently he can't source a hydraulic slave bearing and he has to get the OEM part from Toyota which will cost £290. He then proceeded to say"I can't understand why its hydraulic". It's really annoying when end of play yesterday I double checked that everything was still "Good to go". I think this is a blessing now thinking about it after a few cups of tea. Initially the guy didn't know the car also had a flywheel as part of the clutch assembly, which I pointed out I didn't need. Oh well back to "bearing" with vibrations. 

[wililiams]

Sorry to hear that George. From what I understand it's a surprisingly big job for a lot of garages. The garage I took mine to massively underquoted me as they assumed "it would be the same as an Aygo". Of which they apparently changed quite a few clutches of.

I wouldn't give up as the loss of the vibration has really put all the life and soul back into the car (and me driving it) and was worth every penny (if reasonably quoted!). Shop around and try to find another garage. I initially found mine using a garage comparison website where you type your problem and garages essentially bid for the work. After Quicklane in Groton came out cheapest (by a long way) I phoned them to confirm the price. I think the manager didn't want to lose face by changing the quote after he had confirmed it twice before carrying out the work.

[Cyker]

It's not that bad to change TBH, but the gearbox has to come out which might be a bit of a PITA on the IQ as it's so packed!

A bit of background - Earlier engines had a hydraulic slave cylinder attached to a big metal arm or 'fork' which moved the release bearing to push the clutch plate and release it.

The 1NR-FE uses a 'concentric slave cylinder', which is literally just a release bearing with a hydraulic slave cylinder attached to it that applies hydraulic force directly to the release bearing part, instead of via a release fork- It's a simpler system in theory as you don't need this honking great arm sticking out the side of the gearbox any more, but for some reason the bearing is obscenely expensive!

I ran into the same problem you have when I needed to change all of that stuff following a gearbox failure on my cursed Mk2 Yaris. Couldn't believe the release bearing cost as much as than the rest of the clutch parts!! It's like the dual-mass flywheel stupidness all over again (SMF - ~£100, lasts practically forever; DMF - ~£500!! And needs changing as often as the clutch!!!)

A good tip - Try performance parts retailers like Demontweaks and Fensport - I got a CSC for my Mk2 for £90 from Fensport, which is much more reasonable than £290 you got quoted! The 1.33 Mk2 uses the same 1NR-FE engine and 6-speed gearbox as the 1.33 IQ so I reckon it should work in yours too.

I was a bit concerned if it'd be reliable, given it was made in Italy and for a third the cost, but even mated to a stage 2 kevlar clutch kit from black diamond that a friend's son no longer needed (It was free and I didn't want to spend any more money on that PoS car!), I was happily trundling around with that setup, problem-free right up until I scrapped it for a Mk4 Hybrid. (Where hopefully it's been crushed so nobody else has to deal with that hateful car!)

 

[John George Brewster]

Hi, I offer to provide my own, being a veteran I can get 55 % off a complete assembly, they flatout refused. It's such ashame. I bought it in Germany soon after leaving the services and served me well until the clutch problem. However £900 is far too much. I've spent quite a lot getting it ready for its first UK MOT, 4 new boots, new headlights, 65000k major service, all belts changed and fluilds. It passed it's 2nd UK MOT but the inspector noticed I may have to change all 4 brakes sooner than I think.  I've checked other garages and they're quoting the same.. I'm going to drive the car until I'm no longer able too and buy an EV as my last car. I've driven the vehicle for over a year with the problem and if I'm careful and feather the pedal pass 2000 rpm it's fine. Strangely it's ok when the weather is warm but dreadful in the winter. I wonder if people have the same symptoms. I really don't want to keep putting too much into a 13 year old car even though it's  very clean and rust free. 

[John George Brewster]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:51 PM, wililiams said:

Update:

After the quote of £350 I took the iQ straight to QuickLane in Gorton, Manchester. A day's work and the mechanic admitted they'd underquoted the job but we're happy to stick with the agreed price.

New LUK clutch and slave cylinder fitted. Feels like a new car. Vibration at 1500-2000rpm gone. Very happy!

 

On 10/23/2021 at 8:22 PM, wililiams said:

Hi John,

None at all, genuinely feels likes a new car. Hope you get to experience the same sense of relief!

 

37 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It's not that bad to change TBH, but the gearbox has to come out which might be a bit of a PITA on the IQ as it's so packed!

A bit of background - Earlier engines had a hydraulic slave cylinder attached to a big metal arm or 'fork' which moved the release bearing to push the clutch plate and release it.

The 1NR-FE uses a 'concentric slave cylinder', which is literally just a release bearing with a hydraulic slave cylinder attached to it that applies hydraulic force directly to the release bearing part, instead of via a release fork- It's a simpler system in theory as you don't need this honking great arm sticking out the side of the gearbox any more, but for some reason the bearing is obscenely expensive!

I ran into the same problem you have when I needed to change all of that stuff following a gearbox failure on my cursed Mk2 Yaris. Couldn't believe the release bearing cost as much as than the rest of the clutch parts!! It's like the dual-mass flywheel stupidness all over again (SMF - ~£100, lasts practically forever; DMF - ~£500!! And needs changing as often as the clutch!!!)

A good tip - Try performance parts retailers like Demontweaks and Fensport - I got a CSC for my Mk2 for £90 from Fensport, which is much more reasonable than £290 you got quoted! The 1.33 Mk2 uses the same 1NR-FE engine and 6-speed gearbox as the 1.33 IQ so I reckon it should work in yours too.

I was a bit concerned if it'd be reliable, given it was made in Italy and for a third the cost, but even mated to a stage 2 kevlar clutch kit from black diamond that a friend's son no longer needed (It was free and I didn't want to spend any more money on that PoS car!), I was happily trundling around with that setup, problem-free right up until I scrapped it for a Mk4 Hybrid. (Where hopefully it's been crushed so nobody else has to deal with that hateful car!)

 

 

[Cyker]

15 minutes ago, John George Brewster said:

Hi, I offer to provide my own, being a veteran I can get 55 % off a complete assembly, they flatout refused. It's such ashame. I bought it in Germany soon after leaving the services and served me well until the clutch problem. However £900 is far too much. I've spent quite a lot getting it ready for its first UK MOT, 4 new boots, new headlights, 65000k major service, all belts changed and fluilds. It passed it's 2nd UK MOT but the inspector noticed I may have to change all 4 brakes sooner than I think.  I've checked other garages and they're quoting the same.. I'm going to drive the car until I'm no longer able too and buy an EV as my last car. I've driven the vehicle for over a year with the problem and if I'm careful and feather the pedal pass 2000 rpm it's fine. Strangely it's ok when the weather is warm but dreadful in the winter. I wonder if people have the same symptoms. I really don't want to keep putting too much into a 13 year old car even though it's  very clean and rust free. 

Yeah I feel you! Similar things forced my hand into scrapping the Mk2 as thing after thing kept failing on it ad I wasn't willing to throw any more money at it - Must have been the world's most unreliable Toyota!! (But then it was made in the French factory, I'm assuming before Toyota went and gave them a good <the spuds of lurrrrvve>ing for the awful build quality and QA there at the time!)

I'm still laying all the blame on our idiot London Mayor tho' - I was going to run my Mk1 D4D into the ground while waiting and saving for a decent small EV that didn't have toy-town range, but his stupid ULEZ extension forced me down this path which has led to me blowing the money I'd been trying to save for an EV on a Mk4 Yaris Hybrid... thankfully it's an awesome car and I think I made the right choice as it doesn't look like we're going to see a Yaris-sized EV that can do 300+ motorway miles any time soon...!

 

[John George Brewster]

Exactly my intentions, I'm not happy with the range of some of the affordable EVs. Specially the life of the Battery, I don't want to be in a situation that I have to get a new Battery or a new car. I'm definitely not interested in that Chinese crap the MG estate. I've had a look and I'm not too happy with the quality of the inside especially the seats. it may look great at the moment but what's it going to look like and the quality in 5-10 years time. Hydrogen is the way forward but the vehicles are far too expensive at the moment and in Scotland there is only two filling stations. Oh well decisions, decisions, I understand Toyota is doing full EVs in the future. All I can do is wait and hopefully in a few years time Battery range and life expectancy will be far superior than today's, then  I'll make the plunge and buy an EV. You take care, safe and happy driving.

[FNE123]

On 10/23/2014 at 9:04 PM, tarquin said:

Is this Vibration issue not prone to manual versions only? I recall about 2years ago the manager of the service dept at my local dealer came up to me and said " we have just found out there is a clutch problem with the iQ causing it to judder" and "would i like mine sorted out". " its only just come to light across the dealerships". I said mine was multidrive and he said " the judder at certain rev's only effects manuals. Your ok". So there may also be a Bulletin sheet out there for that as well as the EGR issue

David

I have an 09 automatic with horrid vibrations. They are present mostly while idling in drive and initial switch between gears. 

[We-go]

Had this 1500 to 2000 rpm vibration on my 1 ltr 2013 manual and I have read endless comments about this. Noticing that when driving in the vibration zone, pressing down on the clutch, I could feel it and it would almost disappear as the clutch slipped. I went for a clutch replacement. When I collected the car, I asked to see the old clutch and it looked fine; no broken springs. However, driving it away, it was like a new car, no vibration. And because of a now more relaxed driving mpg is up 4 or 5.

[John George Brewster]

Glad to hear, I've been asked for £1000 to fix the problem here in Edinburgh by Toyota even I'm still waiting for them to fix a problem 2 years old and they use covid as an excuse. I'm fredders with them, they seem to think" Mod edit "no one else going 2 let's charge max. 

[We-go]

John. Toyota quoted me £790 but it reduced to £710. They are really nice people at the Knaresborough branch and I have been going there for years with my previous Aygo. They have always been very helpful and efficient lending me a car when necessary.

[ThePermanentProject]

'12 plate IQ here, 66K on the clock, still on original clutch.  Been battling this 'characteristic' for nearly the past year.

The vibration is caused by a failing clutch - producing an unbalanced rotating mass. Just so happens it finds a resonant frequency between 1500-2K rpm. It still has plenty of grip/bite, but it is failing.

True, a *slightly* rougher running condition is to be expected compared to a traditional 4-pot from any 3-cylinder engine, (as is apparently stated in the TSB) but sufficient to shake the rear view mirror clean off the windscreen whilst changing gear? Er, no........

Replacing the clutch is a pig on these because of the cramped conditions in the engine bay, and (by the book) is a 7hr job. But it is worth it......

Leave it, and the vibrations put through the body will eventually crack the sealant between the panels, leading to the increasingly popular 'water in the boot' IQ leak problem, and the permament 'wet dog' stench.

My weekends are now being wasted, spent playing contortionist stripping out the health-risk interior trying to find an untraceable hairline sealant crack between two panels i probably will never be able to reach.

Just get the clutch replaced. The price of clutch replacements are not going up at the same rate as fuel.

Don't worry, you won't be alone. I bitterly, BITTERLY wish i had............

[wililiams]

So that explains the water in my boot and it constantly smelling like wet dog! Can't tell you the number of full valets and air fresheners I've tried!

[flash22]

water leaks are fairly easy to trace pull the interior make sure it's dry then dust the suspect area with baby powder/talc any water will leave traces in the powder, the foam seals on the rear lights are a known issue

[ThePermanentProject]

.....well, if finding the souce of leaks is that easy flash22, you are more than welcome to come here and show this IQ who is boss, because this thing has the devil in it.

As i suspected - after having stripped out the interior, the water is appearing from between two spot-welded panels beneath the rear hatch opening - so it is impossible to see / trace a path back where the source of the leak is - which means i am back to trial & error / guessing.

......and although the foam seals on the rear vents might be a known issue, it's definately not the cause in this case, as once i got the rear bumper off, someone before me has clearly already been at them VERY thoroughly with the bathroom sealant.........

[FROSTYBALLS]

Wonder if a good dosing of Captain Tolleys would help - some have used it on leaking roof joints: Captain Tolley - Homepage

Also available on Amazon.

[ThePermanentProject]

Very possibly Frostyballs - everything i have tried so far has failed (-short of a tarpaulin over it), and this sounds a very logically justifiied suggestion, so i'll give it a go......thank you.

The usual post-wash / hosepipe check hasn't shown anything up this time, but it hasn't rained heavily since it was last put back together - and thats is what usually seems to be the acid test.

It's parked on an unfavourable gradient at the moment for rainwater run-off. Fingers crossed it will rain sufficiently in the next couple of days to be a thorough test - then i will go at it with this Tolley's stuff.

If it still leaks after that (-for the sake of my sanity) i think i will offer it up to anyone on here-for free-who may want it - just to take the damn thing away.

If not, it will likely become the modern-day version of Father Ted's Rover 213.......

[John George Brewster]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:28 PM, We-go said:

John. Toyota quoted me £790 but it reduced to £710. They are really nice people at the Knaresborough branch and I have been going there for years with my previous Aygo. They have always been very helpful and efficient lending me a car when necessary.

hi good news, got a quote through click machanic for £715 and showed all local garage which they use. So I decided to call one nearest to me. They offered me £690 even though I said click machanic quoted £715. Blimey I thought I better go over and put a name to a face. I had a look around and noticed a car up on ramps with it guts out and the parts spread directly below it. Oh man my baby coming here on Thursday! Abort! Abort!Abort! So I looked at all their online reviews, which seemed to be ok. So I put it down to the machanic having a bad day. They're using LUK parts, hopefully they're not hooking me in due to the low cost and hoping to spring other work on me. I know my car and informed them to not to worry about the from two brake pads as l'll replaceable myself. Wish me luck..