Hybrid / EV technology

[QuantumFireball]

I'm getting about 9 miles with mine, but it can vary depending on driving conditions (lots of hills around here).

[johalareewi]

11 hours ago, Anthony Poli said:

How far is the EV range in yours supposedly?

I'd be happy with 3 miles instead of the 1/2 miles mine can manage. I'm sure that would make quite a difference.

 

On a full charge I am getting 10 to 15 miles in 100% EV mode.  New Forest is fairly flat and 40mph speed limit.  YMMV

The plugin can also go up to (almost) 60mph in 100% EV mode which is useful.

 

[Gerg]

Re: Oddment Space.  Perhaps I'm stating things you'd already considered, but some of the dash space that years ago was allocated to storage is now taken up with passenger and knee airbags, and they have to go on top of everything else so they can operate.

That, the multitude of ECUs, and perhaps the dual-temperature heating mechanics won't help either. although that doesn't account for any change in door bin usefulness.

A bit off topic, I spotted an Ioniq hybrid at a local Hyundai dealers the other day. A quick peek under the bonnet shows how they get by with only one electric motor in the transmission; the 'alternator' is now a generator/starter motor, and is driven by a substantial polyvee belt with hefty automatic tensioner, and it's got a sizeable water-cooling feed to it.

The Hyundai specs I have read said that there was no lead/acid Battery needed on this car (I think?) as an enlarged traction Battery did it all, but, there was one in the boot on the r/h side. Perhaps this one was a 'Friday afternoon' car...

[Anthony Poli]

20 minutes ago, johalareewi said:

On a full charge I am getting 10 to 15 miles in 100% EV mode.  New Forest is fairly flat and 40mph speed limit.  YMMV

The plugin can also go up to (almost) 60mph in 100% EV mode which is useful.

 

That would get me to work and back for 2 days. so I could possibly without charging at home only use the ICE for the 3rd day and then 2 more days using EV.

[Anthony Poli]

12 minutes ago, Gerg said:

Perhaps I'm stating things you'd already considered, but some of the dash space that years ago was allocated to storage is now taken up with passenger and knee airbags, and they have to go on top of everything else so they can operate!

That, the multitude of ECUs, and perhaps the dual-temperature heating mechanics won't help either. although that doesn't account for any door bin space.

A bit off topic, I spotted an Ioniq hybrid at a local Hyundai dealers the other day. A quick peek under the bonnet shows how they only have one electric motor in the transmission; the 'alternator' is now a generator/starter motor, and is driven by a substantial polyvee belt with hefty automatic tensioners, and it's got a sizeable water-cooling feed.

The Hyundai specs I have read said that there was no lead acid battery needed on this car (I think?) as the traction battery did it all, but there was one in the boot on the r/h side. Perhaps it was a 'Friday afternoon' car...

Hmm, I did wonder if the were using the Toyota tech under license, I am sure there are a couple of companies doing that.

I can't see how they couldn't have a 12V Battery to run things like the central locking and the computers, otherwise they would need the dc to dc converter working all the time and you could end up with a flat traction Battery and you couldn't get into the car.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Both Nissan and  Mazda have licenced the Prius drivetrain and used it in production cars - Mazda 3 Hybrid and Nissan Altima Hybrid

[cobh18]

And Ford. Mondeo hybrid for example.

[kithmo]

Ford Mondeo hybrid is not like the Prius, 

[Gerg]

Perhaps Hyundai were meaning that the 12v Battery has been replaced by a dedicated group of lithium ion polymer cells that are located amongst the traction Battery cells (which are also lithium ion). But, the one I saw definitely had a 'normal' 12v Battery.

The UK Ioniq brochure gives no indication as to EV range; the battery is rated at 1.56 kWh.

It does have an 'active air flap' radiator grille, which is a bit overdue on any hybrid. The brochure diagram seems to show some heat recuperation from after the 2nd cat. on the exhaust system. Batteries live under the rear seats. And 15" wheels are available on any trim level; the 17" wheels knock 12.5 mpg off the official combined figure.  Drag coefficient is 0.24.

[cobh18]

2 hours ago, kithmo said:

Ford Mondeo hybrid is not like the Prius, 

In what way? Neither is the Mazda quoted earlier, so I don't get your point. However the Mondeo and some US market vehicles use the Prius drivetrain.

 

[kithmo]

Admittedly the Mondeo uses a petrol engine, two electric motors, a power split device and an eCVT transmission, which sounds very much like the Prius drivetrain, but it is not the Prius drivetrain, it is Ford's own along with a Ford (mazda) engine. The mondeo is capable of 85 mph in EV mode, which is impossible in the Prius setup, so the power split device must be different. I suspect it's more like the latest (2017) Honda Accord setup where the power split is done by separate gears and not a planetary gear system like the Prius.

[cobh18]

Thanks for that clarification. I had heard that a geared power split device was feasible, and maybe a future development, to enable higher speeds than currently possible with the MG set-up. Looking at the Aisin mfg Wiki it seems that Toyota licensed 21 patents to Ford relating to hybrid tech, and that Aisin (part owned by Toyota) supply hybrid transmissions to other manufacturers, including Ford.  It's all very complicated!

[MEP's Yaris GS]

9 hours ago, Gerg said:

The Hyundai specs I have read said that there was no lead/acid battery needed on this car (I think?) as an enlarged traction battery did it all, but, there was one in the boot on the r/h side. Perhaps this one was a 'Friday afternoon' car...

I suspect they'll all have a 12v aux Battery like the Prius and most other EVs, however these are not normally lead / acid, but a AGM unit like most modern cars with start stop tech.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

7 hours ago, Gerg said:

The UK Ioniq brochure gives no indication as to EV range; the battery is rated at 1.56 kWh.

I suspect thats as its a hybrid in that form, and not the PHEV or EV version?

[kithmo]

28 minutes ago, cobh18 said:

Thanks for that clarification. I had heard that a geared power split device was feasible, and maybe a future development, to enable higher speeds than currently possible with the MG set-up. Looking at the Aisin mfg Wiki it seems that Toyota licensed 21 patents to Ford relating to hybrid tech, and that Aisin (part owned by Toyota) supply hybrid transmissions to other manufacturers, including Ford.  It's all very complicated!

Looking at the Aisin site, if the Mondeo uses the Aisin eCVT then it does use planetary gears like the Prius, so it must be extra gearing that allows it to achieve the higher EV speeds.

[Gerg]

16 hours ago, MEP's Yaris GS said:

I suspect they'll all have a 12v aux battery like the Prius and most other EVs, however these are not normally lead / acid, but a AGM unit like most modern cars with start stop tech.

Exactly, I can't remember where I read that there is no 12v Battery in the Ioniq, but that statement is also on the Hyundai Ioniq Wikipedia page (not always accurate, I know), alongside a raft of very credible technical data.  Clearly the car I saw has a lead/acid Battery, which an AGM Battery is, hence me mentioning it.

[Gerg]

15 hours ago, MEP's Yaris GS said:

I suspect thats as its a hybrid in that form, and not the PHEV or EV version?

I only mentioned this because in the Gen 3 Toyota Prius brochure (not PIP) had given an 'EV mode' range.  The Ioniq, in trying to 'improve' on the Prius, have claimed improvements in loads of areas, justifiable or not, and this was a figure they could have tried to beat.

[QuantumFireball]

On 1/13/2017 at 10:06 AM, johalareewi said:

The plugin can also go up to (almost) 60mph in 100% EV mode which is useful.

 

On European PIPs it's 85 km/h or 53 MPH - the speedometer over-reads *a lot* on these cars :) The US version allows 62 MPH in EV Mode - don't know why it's lower for us.

The new Prius Prime/PHV has an EV speed limit of 84 MPH but I don't know if this has been confirmed for European models yet.

[Anthony Poli]

3 minutes ago, QuantumFireball said:

On European PIPs it's 85 km/h or 53 MPH - the speedometer over-reads *a lot* on these cars :) The US version allows 62 MPH in EV Mode - don't know why it's lower for us.

The new Prius Prime/PHV has an EV speed limit of 84 MPH but I don't know if this has been confirmed for European models yet.

Is the US mile the same as ours?

Or is it like their gallon and ours

[PeteB]

1 hour ago, Anthony Poli said:

Is the US mile the same as ours?

Or is it like their gallon and ours

No, miles are the same (although Nautical miles are bigger!)

[johalareewi]

On 1/13/2017 at 10:27 AM, Anthony Poli said:

That would get me to work and back for 2 days. so I could possibly without charging at home only use the ICE for the 3rd day and then 2 more days using EV.

Note that the ICE can still fire up even if you are in EV mode. When the ICE kicks in the first time, the HSD goes through the start up stages.

Not usually a problem but on a short trip which you were hoping to do on 100% EV, your mpg will be lower :(

Things that can cause ICE to fire in EV mode: Not enough HV left (auto switch to HV mode); accelerate too hard; go faster than 53mph; turn on cabin heater; turn on front screen demist; Accidentally hit the HV button.

[johalareewi]

22 hours ago, PeteB said:

No, miles are the same (although Nautical miles are bigger!)

Swedish miles are huge (10km).  ;)

[Anthony Poli]

4 minutes ago, johalareewi said:

Note that the ICE can still fire up even if you are in EV mode. When the ICE kicks in the first time, the HSD goes through the start up stages.

Not usually a problem but on a short trip which you were hoping to do on 100% EV, your mpg will be lower :(

Things that can cause ICE to fire in EV mode: Not enough HV left (auto switch to HV mode); accelerate too hard; go faster than 53mph; turn on cabin heater; turn on front screen demist (unless temp=LO); Accidentally hit the HV button.

At the moment i can dream, so far i don't have the funds to buy a used one. That means more time to practice, making the most of ev range of my non plugin.