Rough starting until hot. Bad Fuel

[Shades]

Ive an 2006 2.2 D4D Avensis and it ran well until a few weeks ago. It had trouble starting and unable to diagnose the problem it went to a Mechanic mate to have a look. 

Initial problem was dirty fuel or probably running the tank nearly empty, [I know I shouldn't have done it a most def learnt my lesson.] The fuel lines, filter head, were cleared the tank drained the suction control valve all cleaned. EGR cleaned, though it must of been done before as it was fairly clear. The car ran OK for a few days then started to play up on starting. The Engine management light came on along with VSC TRC lights. Ive had a good look at other posts relating to all of these faults and not sure what to look at next. Injectors maybe but reluctant to spend the money being unsure they are the issue. The mechanic has unplugging them while the car ran and with each one there was a noticeable difference in the engine sound. So in theory they should be OK? Is that good assumption. 

Ive read the codes which keep reappearing PP0093 - Fuel System leak and PP0088 Fuel Rail / System Pressure too high.

Ive tried changing the Injector controller / ECU but didn't make any difference.

Car runs well after driving for 15 - 20 minutes and after clearing the codes I can restart without the codes reappearing. They return when starting from cold. Also there is a slight ticking at around 2k revs. Any advice on where to look next folks? Cheers!!

[Shades]

The more I read the more I think it could be the injectors. Is there a easy way to determine if they are not working properly? Looking to keep costs to a minimum, who doesnt? Do I really need to buy 4. Also do they need reprogrammed to the ECU if I swap them? Maybe the High Pressure sensor could be playing up? 4 second hand injectors are close to £200 and the Sensor is £50. I've already spent about £250 and still no joy.

[Duggerz]

Technically you don't need to buy 4, you can replace a failed injector if you can determine which one it is. The replacement must be programmed to the ecu though or it will run very badly and may even damage the engine. £200 would be cheap for a set of injectors for one of these, they are£1000 new.

[frankie406]

Buy the Toyota techstream diagnostic tool cheap on eBay loads onto a windows laptop and you can see the values of the injectors also you can stop each injector.try a bottle of liqui moly diesel purge I got a litre of it for £10 and just disconnected the fuel filter pipes and put extra hoses onto them and poured 500ml into a clear plastic bottle and put the fuel feed and return hoses into it and ran it at various rpms until it was nearly out of purge then connect it all back up again and dump the rest and the other 500ml into the tank take it a drive.also get a mini fuel filter and put in onto the return hose to collect any crap that might come out. It's a cheap option to try?

[Shades]

Thanks Frankie406. Worth a try alright. What are the benefits of being able to stop an injector? I assume from a dodgy pressure reading that would be the problem injector then? I've tried some fuel aditives to help purge the fuel lines and injectors maybe the more direct approach could help. 

I've the bits and pieces needed just wanted to ask once I disconnect the in, out, pipes do they need connected with a spare piece of hose? New fuel filter to fit after too even though it was replaced before. Will see if this make any difference. 

[frankie406]

The fuel into hose goes into the purge along with the fuel return hose a extra bit of hose for both and on the return line put on a mini hose for the possibility of dirt coming from the cleaning of the injector.the in fuel hose as to go completelyinto the purge and the return can just sit above it.if your fuel filter was replaced recently it should be OK. You can Google or YouTube the diesel purge to give you an idea of what it's like.

[Shades]

I was gonna have a look at purging the engine today. Just wanted to make sure I am connecting the return pipe and delivery correctly. I've attached a photo for clarity. Is it the two pipes on top I connect up or is it the 2 bottom ones to the left of the photo at the side of the fuel filter? Also when the pipes are disconnected does the open ends on the filter need connected with a piece of pipe. Cheers. 

 

[Shades]

So I have a return pipe with a filter. And a suction pipe for delivery. If I could get confirmation which number of pipe the need fitted too I'd be good to go. 

[frankie406]

I'm not sure which 1 on your filter as mine only had 2 pipes.it has to be the return line and delivery line.my return was off the back end of the engine. I will get a few pics and post up.

[Shades]

Haven't done the purge yet but just an update. I got in the car today and I can only think it's a bit warmer out today the car started fine. It continued to run fine on a 40mile round trip. Very strange!   had cleared the codes yesterday and no codes at all today. Could these faults be caused by a dodgy air temp sensor? One other thing to note I got the impression that the mpg was high. 

[andrew76]

Hi Shades and frankie406,

I was wondering if you did the diesel purge, Shades? I have recently purchased a Corolla Verso T180 that has the exact same fuel filter setup as you have shown in your photo and I can find nothing on youtube or via google images etc. that match your pic. When I saw your photo I was hopeful of a bit of guidance from yourself and/or frankie406. I am looking to do a diesel purge to improve fuel economy as, even after a fuel filter/air filter/oil filter/oil change I can do no better than 38mpg even when driving for economy and the car has done over 120k miles and a purge has never been done to my knowledge. I figure that if I do it right, it should at least do the injectors some good.

Could you confirm that, as per your labels, the fuel lines go:

1: from fuel filter back to fuel tank (6mm)

2: from injectors back to fuel filter (6mm)

3: from fuel filter to injectors (8mm)

4: from fuel tank to fuel filter (8mm)

If this is correct, do you take the fuel lines from position 2 and 3 from the filter and place in the diesel purge? (I have done a purge on my VW TDi as there are several guides on youtube and VW forums but I have not found the equivalent guide for my 2.2D T180).

If I am completely way off, could you please confirm which two lines to remove from the filter?

Also, did you find out if you need to connect a pipe between the open ends of the filter or is there no separate fuel pump to worry about?

And finally, if you extend the fuel lines to get to/from your diesel purge in a bottle, do you need to fill them with the liquid before starting the engine to reduce air getting in or is that not necessary?

Please be gentle, this is my first post on the forum and thanks in advance for any guidance!

[Shades]

Unfortunately I can offer little in the way of a solution. I never needed to do the purge after all. The car is now running well and I am unsure how that happened. Maybe a blockage cleared. I guess I got lucky. Maybe someone else may be able to help but as you said I couldn't get confirmation of which of the pipes had to go in the purge. Sorry man I hope you get it sorted. Would maybe still like to do a purge to help with the fuel economy but it's not awful at the moment.

[andrew76]

Thanks for the update. I'll keep you posted if I find out the fuel pipe information from other sources.

[frankie406]

Try and trace your return(should say fuel return) to tank and place that into the purge to circulate.

The pipe from tank to filter shouldn't need to blank.try to trace the pipe to fuel pump/rail.take that off and put into purge also.(mines is a different set up than yours).was all trail and error with mine.you will also need a small inline fuel filter to catch any stuff that might be cleaned off the rail/injectors.you will need to rev thru the range and watch the purge doesn't empty. Hope this helps 

 

[andrew76]

Hi Frankie, much obliged. I have an inline filter at the ready and am now pretty sure which two pipes to pull from the filter. Thanks for the assistance.

[frankie406]

Let's us know how you get on and if you can get pics for the others here👍

[andrew76]

Will do. Waiting for some 8mm to 6mm reducers for the fuel lines from eBay which should be here within the next couple of days then I will be good to go!

[andrew76]

Update:

Did the diesel purge today on my 2.2 D-4D T180 2005 Toyota Corolla Verso.

First, I made sure the engine was warmed up nicely and then switched off.

(Make sure you have all of the necessary equipment and wear suitable gloves!).

I removed the top of the air filter housing and set it to one side then removed the pipework to the turbo. (This allows easier access to the fuel filter and fuel pipes).

I then removed fuel pipes from A + B (see above) and linked these together with a small inline filter as I did not have an 8mm to 6mm reducer (this was a precaution in case a fuel pump in the fuel tank was present - as it turns out this step was not necessary as no fuel went through this filter at all).

I disconnected the fuel pipe from D (this line is the fuel return line from the engine back to the filter). To this pipe I attached another small inline filter (you can get a pack of 5 or 10 of these for just a few quid off eBay with universal 6mm->8mm connectors on each end) and to the other end of this inline filter I attached a short length of 8mm fuel hose. This will return the diesel purge back to the container when the engine is running (for a container, I used a jam jar that had been cleaned in a dishwasher!). This pipe does not have to reach the bottom of the jar.

I disconnected the car's fuel pipe from C and attached an 8mm connector (search eBay for 8mm barbed fuel pipe connector or get one from your local car parts store) with a short length of 8mm fuel hose to reach my diesel purge container. The end of this pipe MUST reach to the bottom of the jar.

So basically, the pipes that were on C and D were now extended with my own pieces of fuel pipe with an inline filter on the return line. The ends of these two pipes were placed in the jar with 500ml of diesel purge. (I actually sucked up a little bit of diesel purge from the jar before connecting the pipe and 8mm connector to the fuel pipe from position C to minimize the amount of air that would get into the HPFP but I am not sure if this was really necessary).

 

Note: make sure that your inline filter is attached correctly - they should have a small arrow on them showing fuel flow direction.

For convenience and for extra space, I then removed the car's fuel filter with housing.

This allowed me to rest the jar on top of the filter housing mount, which was later held in place and monitored by a helpful assistant as I did not want the jar to fall during the purge! I then re-fitted the car's air filter, air filter housing and turbo pipework.

The car started first time without an issue, and then I held the revs at different RPMs ranging from idle up to 3k.

Diesel purge liquid came back to the jar through the inline filter nice and steadily - this pipe can be held above the level of the liquid to check. The other pipe takes the diesel purge to the injectors so MUST stay submerged.

I guess it took between 5 and 10 minutes to use up most of the diesel purge.

I then turned off the engine.

Note: I did NOT let the engine use up ALL of the diesel purge as I did not want the car to stall, so when there was about 5mm depth of diesel purge left, I cut the engine, disconnected my little inline filters and additional black 8mm pipework, removed the jar, reconnected the car fuel filter so that everything was as it was before the purge. I pressed the manual pump/primer on top of the fuel filter (the black circle on my second pic between labels A and B) 10 times and felt good pressure.

The car started first time without a hiccup!

I have seen diesel purges done online (and previously done one myself in my trusty VW Bora) and online some of the small inline filters in the return line look filthy and the diesel purge gets filthier and filthier as the purge continues. After this Toyota diesel purge, considering the engine has done 124k miles, the filter and recycled diesel purge were as clean as a whistle! I therefore don't expect any huge change in performance or economy. Perhaps the previous owner ran the car on BP Ultimate so the injectors are in tip-top condition anyway! So, I suppose this process should be considered as a maintenance/precaution and may or may not have been useful or necessary in this particular case.

If I notice any change to the benefit or detriment of my Toyota, I will post back.

Hope this guide helps some people but please note: anything you choose to do, you do at your own risk!

[frankie406]

Well done mate brilliant write up!

[geoweb2k14]

On 2017-3-25 at 11:51 PM, frankie406 said:

I'm not sure which 1 on your filter as mine only had 2 pipes.it has to be the return line and delivery line.my return was off the back end of the engine. I will get a few pics and post up.

Hi Frankie,, I'm going to do a diesel purge at the weekend on my 2005 avensis... Any chance you could post a pic of the tubes connected for doing this or an explanation please? My fuel filter also only has 2 pipes on it.... Thank you in advance. 

George. 

[frankie406]

I will get a pic up in a day or two mate.it will look similar to the pics that's on by Andrew.76. But I will show you where your fuel return to tank is and the pipe to the hpfp 

[geoweb2k14]

10 hours ago, frankie406 said:

I will get a pic up in a day or two mate.it will look similar to the pics that's on by Andrew.76. But I will show you where your fuel return to tank is and the pipe to the hpfp 

Cheers, thanks! 

[frankie406]

George sorry I've been busy with work. I will get a few pics and a bit of a write up  on Friday. sorry again 

[geoweb2k14]

21 minutes ago, frankie406 said:

George sorry I've been busy with work. I will get a few pics and a bit of a write up  on Friday. sorry again 

Thats no bother Frankie. Looking forward to seeing it and getting mine done. I've 377k km on mine so I've no doubt I'll see a huge improvement in all aspects.. Thanks so much for taking the time out to do this.. 

[frankie406]

1st you need to take off the air filter &hose to turbo and breather pipe (top of engine going to air filter hose)