Avensis D4D coolant loss

[D4D56]

Hi,

I am fairly new to Toyota world and would really appreciate help please. 

I purchased 56 reg D4D couple of weeks ago from a local dealer. I noticed next day after purchase that coolant expansion reservoir was below the minimum level so I topped up. But noticed that coolant loss on the same evening after 10 mile round trip to work. I am having to do this exercise every day since then, the car never overheated in my ownership (max temp record was 196 Farenheit) and did not show any error codes as I am topping up 2 litre coolant twice a day. The dealer agreed for pressure test at their recommended garage. 

Please any ideas what is wrong with it and would it show up on pressure test?

Many thanks in advance.

D4d56 

[Duggerz]

Welcome to the forum, in this case is very likely to be head gasket failure ad it's a well known issue with ad engines although only a small percentage of units were affected. Luckily you bought from a dealer so you have recourse. This problem if it exists is cured only by a new short motor as it's caused by carbon deposits due to oil burning resulting in hammering of the piston against the head. Make sure the dealer doesn't fob you off with a head gasket replacement or walk away with a refund.

[D4D56]

Hi Dugggerz,

Thanks for your guidance.  

Please could you elaborate more on short motor? Do you mean just replacing the new head gasket would not resolve the problem.

The dealer taken advantage of my novice skills and forced me to purchase extended warranty with the car at additional £300 for a year.  The dealer is thinking of warranty to cover the repair, which I think is unfair to me as it will reduce my chances for another claim in future. 

Thanks again for being an angel in this stressful situation. 

D4d56 

[frankie406]

As duggerz says! Have you check the oil filler cap for a mayo like colour in it? Look around for leaks also if the pressure test is OK have them look at the egr cooler too.

[D4D56]

Hi frankie406,

I will check oil filer cap at lunch time and post back, I checked the oil level with dip stick last week but must admit that I did not open oil filer cap.

I will also ask garage to look at egr cooler.

In PDI inspection report (please see attached),  it did mention that coolant cap being damaged. Please forgive my novice, is it referring to radiator cap? Where is it located? I could only find expansion reservoir and topping up twice for last few days.

PDI also mentioned that coolant pressure up and very low, which was ignored by dealer before car delivery. Is the findings of PDI still lead to head gasket or something else.....

Many thanks.

D4d56 

 

[D4D56]

Hi,  I checked the oil cap as attached. I also noticed that oil level is higher than max. This was at correct level last week and I did not top up. Is it just me being paranoid or.... The car has been switched off last 5 hrs.

Cheers 

D4d56 

[Duggerz]

There is an inherent fault in a small percentage of the earlier ad engines that causes oil burning, that is oil leaks past the pistons. Clearly replacing the head gasket will be a temporary solution because the engine will continue to burn oil and will build up carbon again causing a repeat failure after some period of time. Also, one of the byproducts is that the block and head will be "stamped" and no longer flat. Yrs the dealer is attempting to take advantage of you, but depending on how much you like a fight, you have rights. I think one of which is that within a certain number of days of purchase you can demand a refund, I don't know how many though.

[Heidfirst]

which exact engine?

Re. the head/head gasket issue with AD series engines see http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=10987 There are also many threads on here, the RAV & Auris forums.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

The extended warranty will not cover it as it is a pre-existing condition. If the dealer sold you the warranty knowing that there was a problem that is insurance fraud. 

[Alan1234]

Hi I would recommend you booking your car in at a Toyota dealer and ask for them to do a full inspection and check all issues on the pdi form . Then if the car is faulty you have had it inspected by a Toyota expert and this will assist you in any problems if you need to take the garage to court to retrieve your money .i think you have about 30 days under the sales of goods act to demand your money back . The thing is not to be fobbed of by the garage keep all communications and follow up all conservations with can you put that in writing to me for future reference . But before you scream I've bought a knackered car .You could have a leak from from rad cap or a pipe or from the water pump / radiator etc it could also be a head gasket . Which should be found with the correct cooling system test kit which includes testing for exhaust gases in the coolant mixture. Good luck with your out come . 

[Duggerz]

If you have water in the oil, you will have a brownish white deposit under the filler cap, if so then head gasket failure is likely. As Frankie says there are other possibilities that should be examined.

[TAuris]

We had the same problem with the 2007 IS220d, the coolant would leak on the go but was ok at idle. Replacing the the radiator cap did not solve the problem. We realised it was the head gasket and from the forums learned that there was design fault with the piston crown. The manufacturer replaced the engine with a remanufactured unit (short block) under their 7 year scheme. The car had FSH, but not all with Lexus. DuggerZ is correct,

[D4D56]

Hi,  thanks to all for your guidance.

I was booked in for seller's (car dealer) preferred garage and had a call on the way that they had to cancel my appointment due to shortage of staff. This garage is next door to seller and it might be that seller is trying to delay so that 30 days time passes as he is refusing to refund.

Alan1234: I tried to book a service online with toyota dealership website but it does not give me full inspection option. There is a free General diagnosis and Visual safety report which I booked with local dealership and was cancelled via email to say they are very busy...well done Mr. T!! 

The Fuel system cleaner is other cheap option available online but not sure if they would do this service or just provide me a fuel cleaner bottle!

I will keep posted and thanks again to everyone with your input. 

D4d56 

 

[Duggerz]

If the dealer is being obstructive I suggest you mirror all your actions in writing and send mail with receipt and keep a copy of course. If you think they may deny receipt you'll have to send special delivery which is costly but may be worth it.

[andymcm]

My 56 2.0 diesel Avensis (1AD-FTV) has always had an 'issue' with low coolant level.  The level stays below min.  If I top it up, it quickly falls back to below min, but then stays there.  

It's been like this all the time I've had the car (over seven years now).   Never had an actual issue with the engine (on 97k miles now).

I can only assume that the coolant is overflowing somewhere and leaking out when I top it up.

So just saying, if the level is below min but stays static, maybe you don't really have a problem.

Andy

[D4D56]

Hi,  I am having to topup 2 litres after every 5 miles trip! 

D4d56 

[andymcm]

20 minutes ago, D4D56 said:

Hi,  I am having to topup 2 litres after every 5 miles trip! 

D4d56 

Ah ok, you definitely have a problem then.  I obviously didn't read the thread carefully enough.

Andy

[D4D56]

Hi,  I forgot to mention that my car heater really struggles to work. It works but after about 10 minutes. Also the is running water behind dashboard at engine start, acceleration and turning. Not sure if these are linked to coolant loss or separate issues!

D4d56 

[frankie406]

Look under the carpet to see ifor it's wet

[D4D56]

Hi,  I checked under carpets on few occasions and it seems dry.

D4d56 

[Duggerz]

2 litres after 5 miles is a torrent and a head gasket that bad would definitely affect performance. Do you see excessive steam from the exhaust, is the coolant pressurised when the engine is stone cold? If you had a leak that bad you'd see it! Check under the car for a waterfall when running!

[D4D56]

Hi,  I can not see steam from exhaust.  I will monitor leak although nothing at drive way for last few days.  Will do a quick run round the block and post back. Thank you to everyone for your help so far. 

D4d56

[D4D56]

Hi,  I took the car to seller's preferred workshop,  pressure test came positive and dealer agreed to return my money, But he claims to sent my p/x car (was valued far less than Expected) to auction already.  Not sure if something can be possible to get that valued better now as I was happy to take it back and sell private.

I still want to stick with Toyota manufacturer and would appreciate which model I should go next (saloon, estate or 4x4 between 7-11 year old models...the one that has less manufacturer design issues...any ideas please. 

D4d56

[alan333]

11 hours ago, D4D56 said:

Hi,  I took the car to seller's preferred workshop,  pressure test came positive and dealer agreed to return my money, But he claims to sent my p/x car (was valued far less than Expected) to auction already.  Not sure if something can be possible to get that valued better now as I was happy to take it back and sell private.

I still want to stick with Toyota manufacturer and would appreciate which model I should go next (saloon, estate or 4x4 between 7-11 year old models...the one that has less manufacturer design issues...any ideas please. 

D4d56

Surely getting all your money back is the best outcome?  Plus the car will now be sold at a low price at auction where someone can decide whether to take a punt on it or not.  Personally, I wouldn't be happy selling a car with a known knackered engine privately, I'd feel like I was ripping the buyer off.

The 1.8vvti petrol engine in the T25 Avensis is pretty bulletproof, but make sure you buy one after 06 plate (after the mild facelift) cos the engine problem was cured by then.

[Duggerz]

Refund sounds like a result to me. If your px car was sold at auction the dealer will have an invoice to show how much he received. Methinks he's lowballed you to keep profit from your deal. If you're in the mood, demand to see the invoice, that may get the px value up.

[D4D56]

Hi,  

 

Thanks to everyone for guidance.

I am looking at another avensis saloon 57 reg and petrol model from another car dealer. The car recently had MOT with advisory on both front suspension arms and rear exhaust deteriorated. But car dealer is not prepared to replace them at asking price. Should dealer sell a car with advisory items (not sure how much these will cost me in future)!

Cheers