Clutch replacement planned Avensis Mk3 T27 1.8 valvematic

[Konrad C]

I detected slight clutch slip when accelerating in 2nd gear above 3000 rpm. The pedal is biting point is high but in normal use the pedal and clutch is okay. I spoke to my mechanic who say i have plenty of time. I will have the clutch replaced sooner than later.

I will be getting the 3 piece kit (LuK), so not skimping on the concentric slave cylinder.

The only issue is to check the clutch places cost before committing, or let my mechanic who has work on my older car do the work? How much has others been charged?

He has done a clutch on a similar model plus may allow me to help/take photos. I look forward to this in a way, because then I know the clutch will never need changing again under my ownership, and I get to see the inner workings and how the car is put together. Plus I can remember and make sure every part is put back.

The problem with being a of secondhand car is you never know how the previous owner(s) drove it - hold the car on incline using biting point instead of parking brake, ride the clutch pedal, using lots revs whilst getting biting point (this engine stalls easily if not enough revs).

Hopefully the car will be better to drive once the clutch has been replaced. 

 

   

[Alan1234]

Hi Konrad look forward to your photos .

[JoeP]

I too would be interested. Are the clutches week on these

[Konrad C]

4 hours ago, JoeP said:

I too would be interested. Are the clutches week on these

That is a good question. There are a few of factors that can cause accelerated clutch wear. The most common is riding the clutch, heavy use of the clutch due to the lack of low down torque. High revs to keep the engine from stalling. Lack of feeling and/or vibration (compared to my previous Avensis), made stalling easy at first.

I had no issues with my old leanburn, as the 7A-FE has plenty of low down torque, under 1500 rpm compared to the MK3 2ZR engine. Once moving the Mk3 is fine and I can drive along at around 1500 rpm or lower. The engine has a stronger pull at around 2500 rpm. The clutch slips near 3000 rpm. Also the later car (estate) is heavier than the older hatchback).

My car has done 65288 miles. So it is luck of the draw. If I owned the car from new, the clutch had been recently installed or the driver was clutch friendly, I am sure the car would not be needing a replacement clutch under my ownership!    

[mickburkesnr]

I've had two cars that needed clutch replacements. A Peugeot 107 and a Peugeot 3008. 

The 107 - which is the same as the Aygo - used the thicker Yaris clutch. I took it to a back street garage near me to get it sorted out and it cost me £200. I've no idea what clutch they used, but I know it's done 8,000 miles since over 2 years and it's been fine. However I fully expect it to last until 20,000 miles before replacement. I'll be doing the lottery if it lasts 60,000 like the old one did - thats how confident I am about the type of clutch I have and the place that fitted it.

The 3008 was a different matter. It was a diesel, so used a dual mass flywheel. I asked Peugeot for a quote, and they told me £1,200 to sort it. I was recommended a place near my work at the time, they did it for £600. They used a LUK clutch kit for it, and I think they lost money on working on the car as the DMF needed replacing as well. The guy didn't know how I was driving it, it was that bad.

So, in my opinion, the replacement for a clutch should cost between £200 and £600 (flywheel dependent). The two cars are chalk and cheese, one's a tiny 1.0 petrol go kart while the other was a lumbering bag of spanners with a 1.6 diesel engine. I'd imagine if yours is petrol then it would cost something in the middle of what I've experienced. I will also say though that you are in London and you pay London prices, so maybe even expect to pay a little more.

But if your mechanic comes back and says it's £200 for labour, I wouldn't say that's a bad deal at all if you're supplying the clutch yourself.

[JoeP]

My last t25 2.2d never needed a new clutch and it had done 140,000 when I sold it. This one however has done less than 40k. Maybe its just had luck. I suspect from Toyota they are around £1k to replace. Mr clutch is about £700. There is probably little chance of the warranty covering it

[mickburkesnr]

Clutches and brake pads used to contain asbestos, and this was banned in 1999 (or 2004 if the car was built before 1973 - i think). So the material we have now in clutches doesn't resist wear as much as it did then. So it's quite common now for cars to need a new clutch after 50/60,000 miles.

[Konrad C]

My car is going to be done by the guy who did the transmission on my old Mk1 a few years ago. I wanted to be there, but I will see. The complete clutch kit is on order. I asked to have the old clutch unit back so I can see the condition. It will be done next week. 

The good thing is that the car does not have a DMF, being a low torque petrol car. Going back to when clutch man did the transmission, the car drove nicely, with the clutch feeling light and gear changes nice and positive. My current car's clutch is light, but the pedal is high. I don't have any problems with gear changes. My mechanic contact says that the clutch man hates Mercedes B Class and had a bit of hassle with a Rav4 he did a couple of days ago. My car should be no problem. 

When the car comes back I will give feedback.  

[Konrad C]

My car is with the mechanic and the clutch has been ordered. I was going to order it myself, but the mechanics have done it already.

The clutch is a Luk and I already research the part numbers: 621 3087 33 for full kit, 621 3087 09 for the kit without the slave bearing, and 510 0133 10 for the slave bearing.

I took a few photos of the new clutch before they go to the mechanic with my car to be installed -

Clutch plate from Luk. Notice the Valeo brand.

Pressure plate.

The concentric slave cylinder bearing from different angles.

Hopefully the next report is when I get the car back.

[JoeP]

My car is going for it annual service next week and I have asked Toyota to estimate on it. I would be interested to know the cost of doing it your way if you don't mind sharing. I will feedback the Toyota cost

[Konrad C]

I can share the cost of the clutch at roughly £200. Not sure about the labour yet. 

Here is a price if I had ordered it via eBay - 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FITS-TOYOTA-AVENSIS-1-6-1-8-08-OEM-OE-REPSET-PRO-CLUTCH-KIT-CONCENTRIC-CSC/172429427849?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Ddcbb7bb36c6949c4a6b2e2e579c46ca7%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D172429427849

The price is lower if the concentric slave bearing is not included. 

As far as I am aware, the Luk kit is the only main brand available for the 1.6/1.8 Valvematic where ever you go. That is why I took the photos. Since I have nearly mastered not stalling the engine, I hope this clutch will last far longer. I like to use low revs and not hold biting for long. I hate people holding cars on incline using biting point and not parking brake, riding the clutch, slipping the clutch when changing gears, and even slipping the clutch when just driving. I see people revving the engine high whilst parking. You know what happens if the foot slips off the pedal!

[Konrad C]

I got the car back and the cost was £450 all in. 

The car drives a lot better. The biting point is lower and sharper, the pedal is really light - the pedal was light before, but now there is hardly any resistance. Now here is something interesting, the auto handbrake operates differently and engages quicker. Before when I engage the EBP with the clutch pressed, when I took the car out of gear and released the pedal, the EBP operated further. Now it only operates further when switching off. The engine compensates quicker so it does not stall. It feels and drives more like my old car. The gear change was never a problem and is no different now.

The car feels like different car.

Yes I am very pleased. 

[Konrad C]

New problem. The "Check Parking Brake System" and 'Caution' sign has illuminated. I think the clutch calibration needs to be done. EPB is working fine except no auto release - only manual. I will try the jumper wire fix on the OBD socket. Searching for the post to try it later.

 

[JoeP]

Hopefully that's an easy one to fix. Was it £450 including clutch or 450 plus clutch. I would expect plus otherwise seems very good price.

[Konrad C]

2 hours ago, JoeP said:

Hopefully that's an easy one to fix. Was it £450 including clutch or 450 plus clutch. I would expect plus otherwise seems very good price.

The £450 was for everything. 

I caught the clutch just in time. I got the old parts and here are the photos: -

You will notice the Valeo mark as on the replacement clutch.

I wanted to be there when the clutch was being changed, but this will have to do. I saw the mechanic who did the job, when I had to retrieve my locking wheel not and he said it was not an easy job to do.

Now to find the jumper wire fix to reset the clutch/EPB. 

[Konrad C]

After trawling through pages of posts and found the one I was looking for.:-

Will give it a go later and let you know how I get on. 🤞🏾🤞🏽

 

 

[Konrad C]

I have reset the EPB and removed all the warning lights using the paper clip trick. The EPB now releases when the clutch pedal is raised to biting point and the throttle pressed. 

Here are the details -

Electronic Parking Brake fix.docx

In case there is no access -

Connect terminal 12 and 4 on obd port with piece of wire.

Turn ignition on

Within 5 seconds push park brake 3 times then pull 3 times

Red park brake light will flash rapidly for a few seconds, then the yellow warning brake light goes off.

The instructions came from a post made by jimmyfixit, so credit to him. 

 

So what I have learned - the clutch biting point changed when the clutch was replaced, causing the EPB error. The reset should calibrate everything. Hopefully this is all fixed.

 

[JoeP]

Well you saved a good amount of money. Toyota want in the region of £950 to fix. Thats apparently discounted as I have a service plan with them.

They can't replicate the problem but its definately slipping for me when I accelerate hard in 4th. Need to decide what to do with it.

[Konrad C]

The car is all fixed and drives well. In my other post, EPB problem was caused by the gear position sensor being disconnected. The guy who did the clutch, did not secure the plug on the sensor, and did not secure the cable bracket. I had diagnostic done that sourced actual problem. I was given the bolts and the sensor securely connected. The errors erased and EPB  working as before, with auto release. 

Glad it was a simple fix.

[Shavestick]

A bit of an old thread but I am about to replace the clutch on my identical car (T27 2010, Estate 1.8 Pertol).

As there is a country-wide shortage of Luk kits at the moment I can choose other brands like Aisin or Valeo, will it make much of a difference?

Also, do you need to drop the sub-frame when changing a clutch with this model?

The car is still on the original Toyota clutch at 140k but it starting to slip between 2/3rd.

[Konrad C]

I can't answer the subframe bit, but I think you may get away with removing the left hand support. Hopefully someone can give that answer. As for the other brands of clutch, it should not matter if they are of good quality. I also had the concentric slave cylinder replaced, as detailed in my original post.

You got a long use out of your clutch. This is credit to your good driving technique. When I got my car back in September 2015, I knew the clutch may need replacing. I held out until April 2017. 

[Shavestick]

Hello,

 

So the car went in for a clutch and starter motor replacement.

To answer my own question if the sub-frame needs removal?

Yes it does need a partial removal so you can drop the transmission. All went well until one stubborn rusty screw did not want to come out, this was one of the screws holding the left side of the sub-frame. Eventually the garage had to cut it out and do a touch of welding around the offending area. 

The clutch fitted was a German BluePrint branded one as my mechanic which I know well for many years, said he never get come backs with this brand. I would have chosen LUK if there was one available but supply chain issue ensures it is in short supply currently.

The original Toyota clutch was as smooth as the one showed earlier in the thread and was well down to the rivets.

What's doing my head is my legs muscle memory when releasing the new clutch, which is now very light, I keep stalling until my brain to foot adjustment will get the right position set in.

Al in all the cost was around £580 plus vat

Starter motor change was another £300 plus vat (Bosch starter was £190 alone).

 

[Konrad C]

I didn't do the clutch swap myself nor remember asking the guy who did it, if he removed the subframe or not? You may get away without touching the subframe, depending if the mounting gearbox having enough clearance!