The Future Of Our Diesels

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Good Morning...to all those Avensis diesel owners...with all thats being legislated and regarding new laws, rules, and changes about diesels...should we be concerned? 

I'm being made to feel that we should begin the process of trading in for a petrol equivalent soon...which is sad in a way. What would happen to our vehicles in the end...probably get exported to third world countries who dont give a damn about pollution. I dont see the point in all of this dirsel polava...its silly.

 

[Heidfirst]

I can't remember if your car has a DPF, Sam? If so it's Euro V compliant so should be OK for a good few years yet imo - I am certainly planning on keeping mine for another 2-4 years & I live in a city that is known to have poor air quality (fails Euro standards).

[frankie406]

What about the cars that has no dpf?

[saxo265]

http://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/diesel-cars/460/diesel-tax-proposed-charges-and-surcharges-for-uk-drivers

This makes a dismal read for most of us!

[Heidfirst]

6 hours ago, frankie406 said:

What about the cars that has no dpf?

depends what emissions level they do conform to & of course, where you are driving.

[Cyker]

Yeah, it is a bit !Removed! - Tempt us all to buy diesel cars with low taxes then when we do pull the switch.

It's particularly galling that now you could buy a 3 litre turbo polluting monster and pay the same tax as someone in an Aygo.

And as usual it's all stick and no carrot.

The fact of the matter is my car has better real world fuel economy than any other car I could realistically buy and the amount of CO2 it produces per mile vs petrol cars is still lower than the majority.

Even taking the bus costs 3 times what it costs me in fuel to do my daily job!

My plan was to hang onto it as long as I can until someone makes a decent electric car that is of a similar size and can do at least 300 miles on a charge, and that hasn't changed.

If it means I can't drive into central London or other city centres, then I just won't. Plenty of other places I can take my business. Heck, already the local areas are becoming increasingly car-unfriendly with CPZ's popping up all over the place and extortionate parking charges - It's actually cheaper for me to drive to Lakeside or Bluewater and back to do anything other than supermarket shopping as it currently stands - and all these 20 mph zones appearing are not doing the air quality any good I'm sure.


 

[FROSTYBALLS]

22 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The fact of the matter is my car has better real world fuel economy than any other car I could realistically buy and the amount of CO2 it produces per mile vs petrol cars is still lower than the majority.

The problem is that isn't just carbon dioxide, it is the levels of nitrogen dioxide that are produced.

[Cyker]

Well this is increasingly a problem in petrols too, as they make them more efficient, so are they going to start penalizing petrols too once the low hanging money fruit of diesel owners dries up? That's exactly the kind of crap I'd expect and why I'm not just going to buy a new and worse petrol car as some kind of knee-***** reaction.

 

[Heidfirst]

28 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The problem is that isn't just carbon dioxide, it is the levels of nitrogen dioxide that are produced.

& particulates

[frankie406]

Is this happening in any other country?  Or is it just the UK? 

[Berengaria]

All seems quite unreasonably OTT this talk of charges for diesels driving into major towns & cities and paying more for parking etc. The autumn budget is also rumoured to contain some anti-diesel measures. It's all over for diesel now.

For the Avensis, I foresee this facilitating a bit of a renaissance in its twilight years. The 1.8 valvematic petrol is arguably the most smooth, reliable and no-nonsense engine on the market in a car of this size; no competition really and petrols / hybrids are what Toyota does best. More importantly, it's almost as economical as the diesel, but without all the hassle that's emerging.

I say this as a petrol version owner. Still, think on the bright side - you'll still be paying the ridiculously low £30 a year in road tax, so you'll have some spare cash to pay your pollution taxes!

(Toyota saw this coming, which why they bought-in diesel units from BMW instead of wasting millions of yen developing their own from scratch that, as we're seeing, would only have had a very short production life)

 

 

[Alan1234]

well I drove the 1.8 petrol very unimpressed . I don't drive into city's so I'll keep the diesel nothing will change for me . Don't you just love the press putting out story's the excite the what the hell gang lol 

[Berengaria]

Quote

well I drove the 1.8 petrol very unimpressed

I think it's easy to get attached to the driving experience in diesels mainly as a result of the turbo kick and low revving nature of the engines (assuming they're suitably high-geared). But having said that, a turbo is just another thing to go wrong, which is why the V-Matic scores again, even against the newer crop of turbo petrols.

TBH, the Avensis doesn't really excite anyhow with its driving experience (as time goes on, I become more bored by the month with mine, but that's missing the point). The Avensis is a generally solid, heavy reliable motor with classically good saloon car looks - this is what is does best, and I'll settle for that any day over excitement with poor reliability.

I've driven countless diesels of all makes and models over the years and always been impressed with them, but I've always wondered in this day and age quite why they were sanctioned from an environmental health point of view - it doesn't matter what the technology in them has been, diesel has and always will be a dirty fuel.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Alan1234 said:

well I drove the 1.8 petrol very unimpressed . 

you have to drive the petrol differently to the diesel & use the power at high revs rather than the torque at low if you want to make rapid progress.

Interestingly I saw a review of the latest Skoda Octavia the other day which was very similar to what the Avensis has had over the years - efficient, unemotional/uninvolvig etc.  the Avensis is like an appliance but then modern roads/traffic/speed enforcement doesn't exactly make driving enjoyable any more.

 I also agree with Berengaria - there are dashed few competitors for the 1.8 petrol  that are naturally aspirated (so don't have potential issues down the line from the turbo). Possibly the Mazda 6 2.0.

2 hours ago, frankie406 said:

Is this happening in any other country?  Or is it just the UK? 

Other countries too.

[mickburkesnr]

I remember reading a story where a country - I think it was Singapore - basically bought all of the old diesel cars and trucks from the population and either gave them or sold them new vehicles at reduced prices to combat their pollution problem. It worked for them.

However, in the UK it's a different story. You'll see politicians now push the cash for electric cars and vehicles, but for most use cases they're not suitable. Sure there will be people who have diesel cars who could benefit from switching to petrol or, maybe, electric. But what about the delivery guys, builders, etc who use diesel vans? They can't use electric vehicles, or if they did they'd have to have 3 or 4 to use while the other is charging. If you see a carpenter, for example, they always carry two or three batteries for their drills and equipment because if they only had one they'd have to wait for a few hours for it to charge.

I can't help but wonder whether this threat would've occurred if VW weren't found to have cheated emissions?

[FROSTYBALLS]

The case against nitrogen dioxide and particulates has been building over the past four or five years or so. There were discussions on NO2 on these forums going back to around that time as well.

[Konrad C]

Practically everything I would have said about swing away from diesel has been said, especially by Berengaria and Heidfirst (Scott). Diesel engines have a lot of anti-pollution components, that can be very unreliable and expensive to repair. Add the point that Heidfirst said about road conditions, the only point of diesel wouldbe long journeys and pulling caravans and trailers. I have always said that the roads are becoming boring, with traffic calming, lower speed limits, speed cameras and average speed cameras.  

The London Mayor had originally set out plans to charge pre Euro IV petrols and pre Euro V diesels an extra pollution charge, but has changed the rules on diesel side a few times. First change was that diesel then had to be Euro 6 compliant and then the dates changed. Here is the latest planned rules - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

Then a blanket T-charge will start later this year - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge#on-this-page-2

Has anybody noticed that some of the latest petrol engines now have direct injection, turbos, and EGRs? All the same components as a diesel engine, and the NOX levels are higher on those too.

Europe was the main diesel car market, but a few countries are changing from diesel. 

When the VED were changed to match vehicle emissions based only on CO only! The new VED is all about more tax revenue since cars were getting cheaper.

Trump has reversed some anti-pollution laws in the US, and it could take somebody like him to take charge in the UK!

I am glad I made my choice of the Valvematic.   

[frankie406]

Yes the more these so called parts to help combat pollution is actually making it worse!  And the political idiots must be getting a big cut for pushing these cars.no back bone at all along with the reduced speed limits it can't help the diesels! 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Some petrol engines have had EGR's for years - eg. the IQ which came to the UK in late 2008. VAG have said they will be dropping their smaller diesel engines (including a newly designed 1.5 litre) and will be fitting gasoline particulate filters to some of their engines by the end of this year.

There are suggestions that Theresa May may intervene in the taxation schemes that diesels may face. This is partly in recognition of the fact that the advice the Labour government acted upon regarding taxation based on CO2 levels, was based on vehicle manufacturers' promises to fit effective emissions controls equipment. 

Whatever happens, something has to be done to clean up the air of the major cities in the UK, and unfortunately diesel engines, whether they are in cars, trucks or buses, are one of the main culprits of pollution (NO2 and particulates).

[Anthony Poli]

I can see a future charge for electric cars that aren't charged by renewables.

 

 

 

[Alan1234]

Regarding Battery tech for cars can these be recycled and what's the pollution just to produce the cars Battery . That will next when you all buy one or they will say it's putting the nation grid under to much pressure when you all arrive home and plug in then click your kettle on for a brew .its never ending .80% of pollution is caused by heavy industry not your car .while we are on about the ozone lets get rid of cows they are farting the climate to death .

[mickburkesnr]

16 minutes ago, Alan1234 said:

while we are on about the ozone lets get rid of cows they are farting the climate to death .

There's scientific data that suggests the depletion of the ozone layer helped cool the planet down. Since it's been growing back, the temperature has started to rise.

But this isn't about the environment or public health. If the government were that bothered about our health processed foods would be banned outright, along with diet drinks etc. This is a question of money.

[Anthony Poli]

5 hours ago, mickburkesnr said:

6 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

while we are on about the ozone lets get rid of cows they are farting the climate to death .

There's scientific data that suggests the depletion of the ozone layer helped cool the planet down. Since it's been growing back, the temperature has started to rise.

But this isn't about the environment or public health. If the government were that bothered about our health processed foods would be banned outright, along with diet drinks etc. This is a question of money.

Motorists are the easy targets for them.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[frankie406]

Of course it's about the money! That's all the government is interested in they couldn't give a toss about joe public's health! 

[Anthony Poli]

They might even start charging for the carbon diode we breathe out