Sluggish acceleration, then judder/jolt while in 2nd gear

[mickburkesnr]

While driving my E11 this morning on the way to work I noticed that once I've pulled off in 1st gear, then move in to 2nd, sometimes the car wouldn't accelerate. But then after a second it would sort of jolt and then return to normal.

Is this indicative of a clutch slip? I pulled the car up when I got to work, put it in 4th with the handbrake on and lifted my foot off the clutch and it stalled. Which, I thought, indicated the clutch was fine? Or is it more of an issue with the gearbox as the engine seems to have enough pull throughout the rest of the gears.

[oldcodger]

Clutch slip is usually when to accelerate hard , say in third, but watching the rev meter it goes up, but your speed does not increase, or only very slowly in comparison, but then slowly the plate grips and things become more  normal

To me it sounds more like a sticking clutch where you take you foot off the clutch but the plate in not re engaging fully, then suddenly going back down with a jump ?

Does it happen on any other gear changes, up or  down ?

 

[mickburkesnr]

I thought that, as I had it in two other cars going up the hill by my house. That's why I checked the 4th gear stationary.

I drove it home and it happened once again in 1st, but there was a momentary dip in the power, then a kick up the backside. I'll be driving it tomorrow so will see if it happens then too.

[mickburkesnr]

Ok it happened once this morning coming from a round about. Slipped it in to 3rd, and it's the weirdest thing. Foot was down, but the car didn't accelerate like it should've done. I felt a vibration, like it was trying to get traction on the road a bit like when you drive over a man hole cover and the wheels skid a bit. The engine revs, however, didn't rise. They stayed constant, but the car didn't correspond to what it was doing.

I took my foot off the accelerator, took the car out of gear, put it back in to 3rd and it took off like it should've done.

Starting to think it's a sticking clutch myself now.

[fordulike]

Maybe it's an engine revs thing. A sticky EGR valve can make the engine unresponsive below 2k rpm. When you change gear, the revs might drop below that level.

Just a theory!

[mickburkesnr]

Certainly a cheaper option to consider. I'll have a look as to where the EGR valve is. I have a list of things to do with the engine (changing speed sensor, service, new type of air filter) so I can add this on to the list and see if it makes a difference.

It's only happened three times, but thats three times more than it used to happen.

[oldcodger]

Cannot remember for sure, but is not yours an older petrol model, which don't have EGR valuves as far as I know.

[mickburkesnr]

Mine, as far as I know, is the last generation of the 4E-FE engines. It's not a VVTi or whatever fancy thing the newer ones have. Are the EGR's just for the VVTi's?

From a quick Google, the 4E-FE didn't have EGR valves.

[fordulike]

Apologies if I've led you down the wrong path. Didn't realise your car was an oldish model. 

Hope you get to the root of the problem.

[mickburkesnr]

1 hour ago, fordulike said:

Apologies if I've led you down the wrong path. Didn't realise your car was an oldish model. 

Hope you get to the root of the problem.

Ah no worries, all it cost me was 20 minutes of Googling when I should've been working. But who works on a Friday? :P

[mickburkesnr]

More info: happened twice again on the way home yesterday. Once going around a corner in 2nd gear, and another time when on the straight and I was in 5th.

Both times I had the window down (bit warm now!) and there was a squeal when it occured. A high pitched squeal.

[oldcodger]

1 hour ago, mickburkesnr said:

More info: happened twice again on the way home yesterday. Once going around a corner in 2nd gear, and another time when on the straight and I was in 5th.

Both times I had the window down (bit warm now!) and there was a squeal when it occured. A high pitched squeal.

Assume you mean like before, just after changing gear and trying to accellerate ...?

Gearbox oil all ok ?

How old is the clutch ?   Any signs of oil under the bottom of the bellhousing, eg oil seal failing and contaminating clutch.

Clutch slave cylinder working ok  , not sticking on release ?

Could be the gearbox, but from what I've read, its more a case of problems with specific gears or whining noises etc.

Your random gears does sound more like a sticking / worn clutch ... though typically first /reverse will be worse with no syncro.

How heavy is your clutch pedal and how high up is the biting point,  heavy and very high generally means well worn.

[mickburkesnr]

Yeah I meant like before.

I changed the Gearbox oil about this time last year, and it's done 16,000 miles since then (I think). I topped it up once after that, might try to top it up today.

I've no idea how old the clutch is. It's done about 108,000 miles, so it's either on it's second clutch or it could be due a new one. There is a perenial advisory on the MOT's for the last 10 years on the car of there being oil around the bottom of the gearbox. I think I mentioned this before in another post, and that's relating to a seal. But it's not losing loads of oil so whatever seal it is was going to be changed when the clutch is changed. Might be time now!

It pulls off fine in 1st and will always go in to reverse, so the gearbox itself seems to be fine.

I'm not sure about the weight of the clutch pedal. I know it's heavier than newer petrol cars, and it's a little heavier than my 107. But I wouldn't say it's any heavier than the diesels I've driven either. So I can't really compare it. The bite though is a little high. I have put the car in to 4th and let the clutch up and it's stalled though?

[oldcodger]

Speaking to the council MOT testers who do all the local taxis ( lots of toyotas) they say oil marks on the gearbox/bellhousing is a common problem of these older toyotas, but seems it just a constant very small amount, and that its just one of those things you have put right when fitting a new clutch.

Could be the crankshaft to flywheel oil seal and  / or the gearbox input shaft one , apparently not a expensive or difficult job, once the gearbox is out.

Had a similar minor leak on my old Avensis , still there at 150k +

Your problem does seem to sound like clutch related ,  perhaps just early days ?  though wonder if its anything electronic related re all the dashboard /speedo work you have done recently ??

About £300 at some local garages to replace the whole clutch, a very big diy job....

[mickburkesnr]

I'm not sure about the electrical issue, as it's only now happened and my speedo's been broken for a good 3 months now. I've the parts to sort that, which I'm adding to a list of things to do with the car before the summer (shocks, body work etc). The car will be off the road for a little bit, so it might be an idea to change the clutch while I'm at it. Which would mean most of the major components that could fail from wear will have been replaced then.

I drove it this morning, and there wasn't an issue. But then again there was hardly any stop start traffic. This afternoon there will be, so I'll see if it happens again and I'll start pricing up clutches. 

 

[mickburkesnr]

Right so it behaved itself yesterday, but this morning it was very bad. The girlfriend noticed it, coming off a roundabout got in to 3rd, and the car engine felt like it was snatching for some sort of grip. It lasted for a few seconds then all of a sudden it was fine again.

More or less certain that it's a clutch issue, so I'm going to price it up and add it to the list of things to get done. Except it'll be put right at the top!

[oldcodger]

Bet your girlfriend is getting worried about whos going to get the most love and attention  this summer, her or the Rolla !  

[mickburkesnr]

12 hours ago, oldcodger said:

Bet your girlfriend is getting worried about whos going to get the most love and attention  this summer, her or the Rolla !  

Haha quite right! I told her the MOT runs out on the day we get married, so I've got to sort it out before we go over otherwise we'll have no car for the honeymoon.

The funny thing is she recommended the car to me, as it belonged to her mom's friend. Now she regrets it because it's all I want to talk about is the work I want to do to the car, and she wants to talk about wedding stuff.

Another thing I meant to say, is that squeal/squeak I mentioned when the car was struggling. I get it, ever so slightly, when I push the clutch pedal down. I can only hear it when the windows are down. So yeah, new clutch!

[mickburkesnr]

I don't know who loves me more, the girlfriend or the Corolla, but on the way home tonight I hear a clunk and then suddenly it sounds like I'm driving a muscle car.

The exhaust of 19 years (it's the same original exhaust it came out the factory with) decides to partially detatch from the back box. Messaged Toyota on Facebook to see if I won a prize for having an exhaust last so long. I was told there's no prize. Pretty mean of them!

I'm just going to put the car up on bricks and change everything that needs changing. I'm intending on keeping the car long term, so it makes sense to do all the work.

[oldcodger]

19 years, not bad !   - mines just 11

Whats the condition of the bodywork / underside as thats whats going to be the key factor long term. 

With all the expense it needs , might be easier /cheaper to get a different car  ? possibly moth-balling your existing one as a resto project in the future ?

[mickburkesnr]

Every panel has a tiny bit of rust. Nothing major, nothing eating through the panels. The underside is sound, it's very solid for a car of its age. I had the car on a ramp 6 months ago and the guy looking under it was impressed with it, as it looked perfect considering the age. MOT wise the only things that have been constant advisories on it have been a leak in the exhaust and oil at the bottom of the gearbox. When I sort the clutch and fit a new exhaust system on to it, those two bits will be resolved.

I have thought about getting rid of this and getting another car, but I know the history with this vehicle as I know the previous owner and it was looked after. She just didn't throw money at it for new exhausts! Engine is fine, gearbox is fine (apart from that clutch), I've the bits to fix the speedo. It's just these things have all come at once when I was hoping it'd last another month before I could really start work on it.

[oldcodger]

Are you doing the clutch yourself ?

Sounds like it will be necessary to replace both of those oil seals at the same time.

Do wonder what the state of the flywheel will be at such an age /mileage ?   its face might be scored / need skimming or replacing and the starter  teeth could be in poor condition, anywhere local can skim it for you.

Believe places like Mr.Clutch  can reskim on site for a small additional cost if they do the whole clutch.

Replaced mine a couple of years ago, though the flywheel and oil seals were fine; might be some helpful info here if doing it yourself.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/167797-corolla-diy-clutch-replacement/?page=1

[mickburkesnr]

Probably to keep the cost down. I've plenty of space to do it and another car so I can take my time with it and get it sorted without being under pressure. I didn't consider the flywheel aspect, but it's one of those things I won't know until I go under neath the car and take it all apart to see what happens.

I have to replace the catalytic convertor on my 107 this weekend (for the third time!), and once that's sorted out I can make a start on the Corolla. Thanks for the link to what you did as well, I'll have a look over it and the Haynes manual.