Corolla E11 Long-Travel Brake Pedal

[Gerg]

Hi,

We have an E11 1.4vvti.

For some years it has suffered from a long-travel brake pedal. The brakes seem to work ok and MOTs are not a problem.

Bleeding the brakes (with a Gunson's Eezi Bleed) makes no difference. The rear drums have been checked and adjusted by me, but it made no difference. The front discs are fine. This is happening hot and cold, and the brakes don't pump-up as you might expect with a badly adjusted drum.

The handbrake works well, and when the handbrake is on the pedal is still the same.

Anyone else had this?

[mickburkesnr]

Is there any oil leak around the master cylinder?

[Gerg]

No, nothing to see. The brake fluid level doesn't move from one month to the next (only 4000 miles a year). The only part of the whole system that has ever been swapped out are the front pads, which are now the Optifit Toyota ones. Car is at 115,000 miles, owned from new.

[mickburkesnr]

I'd think that there is air in the system to be honest. I tried to bleed the brakes on a Honda once and I had the same problem, changing master cylinder everything and it didn't improve it. Took it to an old boy in Birmingham who specialised in brakes, and he had it sorted in an hour. 

I asked what he did and he said he bled the brakes, but he used a vaccuum system to suck the air etc out. It might be an idea to take it somewhere and get this done?

[oldcodger]

Hi,

What year is your car ?

Think I would initally agree with Mick about bleeding the brakes,  and thats the first point to try again.

Would ask, did you really bleed out all the old fluid ?

I usually use a least 1 ltr of brake fluid when doing the full system, perhaps a bit ott but it makes sure its all fresh.

Are you using a good quality, fresh, unopened/sealed  Dot 4 fluild like Comma or even Toyotas.

Have used the Gunson Easy Bleed many times on 3 cars over 20 years without any problem, so if following their instructions it should work fine.

 

Though an MOT test point, the rubber brake hoses by the calipers can weaken and expand when the pedal is pressed, giving a similar problem.

It should be obvious to a mot tester, but as the car is old and the metal ferrules around those pipes will be corroded, it might be a good thing to change if the problem persist. Did mine as a matter of course last year, 10 years old, bound to be well worn and looked corroded.

Not expensive parts, though they can sometimes be very difficult to undo, partic the rears where they connect to the metal brake pipes.

[Gerg]

Thanks for the suggestions.

It's one of the last E11s from 2001.

In the past I've used a vacuum bleed arrangement on this and other cars. This time I used an Eezi Bleed.

But I've used the suction pump on other cars - no problems at all, good if you don't have a EeziBleed cap for your master cylinder.

I last bled them yesterday, I used about 650 ml of fresh, unopened fluid (CarPlan, so Tetrosyl I guess). Perhaps I could put more through. I ran the fluid until it was a good, clear colour (into a jar, so you could tell) on each wheel, before moving on to the next one.

The brake pedal isn't really spongy, just goes a long way down.

I was wondering if it was a known problem on these (like the inlet manifold resonance, oil control etc).

Regards.

[oldcodger]

Sounds like you are well versed in brake bleeding.

Think I would try putting 4 brake pipe clamps on each of the flexibles as close to the feed pipe as possible, to elimatate as much of the flexible hose as possible, as see if the pedal travel is still long ?

Depending on what you find, try the same, but just doing 3 wheels or just the fronts or rears  instead to see if you can find any wheel / s causing the long travel.

 

[+Toyota Owners Club]

Another area to look at is the ABS modulator as this could still have old fluid and air lurking in it and the only way to successfully pass it through is to invoke the ABS by either using a scanner to manually switch the pump on (which is easier when bleeding brakes at the same time) or even taking it up a quiet track and slamming on the brakes.

Another way (albeit very messy) is if you have someone on the pedal pumping while you are under the bonnet....loosen the gland nuts going into the modulator block and allow fluid (and air) to bleed out through the threads. This will cause fluid to go everywhere under the bonnet which unless cleaned off with plenty of water can lift paintwork and is also a fire hazard so make sure you clean up thoroughly during and afterwards.

Agree with statement of hose clamps...very useful for diagnosing which circuit is faulty. 

Steel braided brake hoses can cure soft pedal as don't flex so much.

Finally, if you have a compensator valve fitted to bias braking effort to the rear when loaded....make sure that is free to move and also bleed through there as well.

[Gerg]

I like the idea of the clamps!

I've got a couple somewhere from some old kit I used to work on (IBM water-cooled computer!).

Thanks for the compliment, I haven't done that much brake bleeding, oldcodger, but my first try was on a car you'll know, an Anglia 105E, (I was barely in my teens at the time).

And a very good point about the ABS modulator; my Techstream cable only works with Canbus, strangely, so I'll have to consider where to go with that one.

Thanks!