Toyota Alphard LPG Conversion

[+Steve]

Hi Guys

I wanted to share my LPG conversion on my Toyota Alphard with you, in case anyone ever had any question regarding LPG and where to have it done properly.

I recently bought an Alphard for the family, and what an amazing day van it really is. Had so many well thought out features that i have ever seen in a car. From Lane Assist, TEMS suspension, AFS (Adaptive Front-lighting System) electric curtains power doors all round and rotating rear seats that really make it an amazing family friendly car.

My one is the 3ltr V6 with 220bhp 1MZ-FE lump as seen in the Lexus RX300 and the Camry. As you can imagine it is not the most economical car to run which averaged around 23-26mpg. (still miles better than a guzzling Elgrand)

I decided that LPG was the way to go and get the Alphard converted to LPG pretty quickly after buying.

I had seen a lot of good reviews on the Lexus Owners Club regarding Profess Autogas in South Wales. They seemed to have had really good reviews from members so decided that although they were some distance from me, it was all about good reputation and quality when it comes to doing a proper quality install on my car.

So, last week my Alphard went in for 2 days to have the installation by Andy at Profess Autogas

Picked her up 2 days later and I was amazed how they managed to very neatly tuck away all the LPG pump, filter, and flashlube bottle and even the ECU was tucked away out of view. The trunking used also matches the original factory trunking which made it even harder to spot that it has an LPG install.

The system installed was the Stag Q-MAX-6 Plus. With the stag system you do not need to make visits to the LPG installer for tweeks (unless there a hardware fault) This can all be done with a USB cable and laptop. This will analyze the LPG system and send the report to Profess who can then tweek your LPG ECU if necessary. The same goes with each 10k service. You replace the filter yourself and also link up the ECU system so it can be checked to ensure the LPG is operating as efficiently as possible. This saves trips and half day out from work :D

On the fuel filling point I have a reducer fitted (see pics below) within the fuel filler cap, so nice and neat with no gastly filling ports on the side of the car.

Have a look at some pics below of the install. 

I highly recommend Andy at Profess Autogas. His website is here: http://www.professautogas.co.uk/

More info on Alphard's can be found on the new Toyota Alphard Forum which will gradually start compiling technical guides on Alphards

 

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[RUToyota]

Sounds a good job all round, mate..

I have the same 1MZ-FE lump...great engine.!!...but I have no plans to go LPG as I simply don't do enough miles p.a. to justify it.

But they are amazing vehicles I agree.

 

Neil

 

[+Steve]

Cheers.. Well happy and now even cheaper fuel costs its makes it more easier to swallow. Now looking at £25 per 200 miles, which is really good for the size and amount of fun we have in it. I live near beach so great hang out van too.

[RUToyota]

Looks lovely.....and I agree they are a really good "day van" for picnics/days out etc...so comfortable and spacious...and even big enough for me and the Mrs. to overnight in should we want to.

I've actually managed mid-thirties mpg in mine..200 mile run with mixed motoring (Summer) but generally I'm well happy if I can get near 30. (not that I monitor it closely...if it needs fuel...it gets it)

But I do open it up on occasions to enjoy the full "benefit" of that lovely V6.....addictive.!!....and that's when I can easily see nearer 20 mpg..lol...but worth ever penny.!!

 

 

Neil

[+Steve]

Just had its first virtual service to check everything out.. all looks sweet.. nice not to have to drive miles to get it done. Instead sat at the office sipping a cuppa.

WP_20170516_12_40_51_Pro.mp4

[Lpgc]

Was the screenshot before or after the tweek? The screenshot with the graph shows it's calibrated too lean between 6ms and 11ms, there's no 'lead in ramp' for very low pulse duration (so will expect over-run fuelling to be too rich), gas pressure is too low, cylinder bank trim is out by about 10% which is kind of an issue in itself. 

Nobody should have to return to their LPG installer for a service, the reason some firms supply interface cables that they can use remotely (by using freely available / already built into Windows remote computer control software that allows them to take control of your computer over the internet, not just access the LPG system) is because they expect problems and have plenty. They fit systems like Qmax which are supposedly self calibrating but like all supposedly self calibrating systems Qmax does a poor job of calibration.  Any LPG system installer (of any brand LPG system) could supply a £20 interface cable with a new install and use free remote computer access software to check and adjust settings... But LPG systems don't go out of calibration unless some hardware issue occurs and in case of hardware problem the customer will have to return to the installer anyway. It's a better idea for an installer do a proper manual job of calibration and get calibration spot on (so the only time the customer ever has to visit the workshop is if something breaks which with decent components shouldn't be for many years)... Not to leave autocal enabled and chance that autocal will do a decent enough job of calibration (never as good as even half decent manual calibration) and claim remote access is a 'bonus' that they are in the minority of installers for providing. You don't have to look at it much differently to see that they prefer customers to have the interface cable and to set up the remote access software because they have plenty of problems after sales and mostly caused by their reliance on autocalibration type functions that are built into systems they fit because systems they fit are aimed at amateur installers. Above I said it seems your system runs too little pressure, this is just one aspect of the install that they cannot adjust remotely, it is necessary to be hands-on with the spanners to adjust physical system delta pressure. Another point about the remote access is that it still doesn't allow them to see what's happening at different combinations of rpm/load, the graph shown is only for a small rpm range... for an installer to do a good job of calibration he needs more info than the LPG ECU stores, it cannot even address open loop fuelling so the installer won't know if your engine goes too rich or too lean when you put your foot down... The only way an installer can properly check/adjust calibrate of your system is to be in your car while it's being driven regardless of any hype about remotely checking/adjusting your system calibration settings. Wouldn't have fitted the AC injectors on this engine because they're not linear enough/ don't open quickly enough for an engine that idles with 2.6ms pinj.. but some firms fit the same components regardless of what vehicle they're converting. Under your engine cover for best results straw type manifold nozzles need to be fitted on this model engine but I expect this will have generic manifold nozzles.  

[+Steve]

This was before the first service, was waiting for the connection in. Since then it has been tweeked again and due for another tweek if needed.

I have been to the installer on another matter, and had a service done in the workshop.

May i ask what is AC?

[Lpgc]

Hi Steve,

Some of my points above are about the fact that a well installed and calibrated LPG system shouldn't need any tweaks.. If it was setup and calibrated properly in the first place no tweeks would have been necessary. Given previous tweeks you mentioned it could beg the questions 'Why the previous tweeks?', 'Does it need any tweeks now?' , 'Why wasn't it just set properly in the first place?, 'Will it need any tweeks in future and if so why?'. In the old days when cars had carbs, points and spark distributors the occasional tune-up wasn't a bad idea but these days no garage remaps a fuel injected car when you take it in for service because the car manufacturer set a correct fuel map for the car at the factory and it doesn't go out of calibration unless a component breaks - The same should be the case with a properly setup and calibrated LPG injection system and it usually is the case... But when an installer prefers you to take an interface cable and set up 'remote access' to your laptop it's not difficult to look at it from the other angle, where instead of the remote access being a bonus, the need for repeated tweeks is a negative. Some firms don't contribute much to general LPG discussion forums because on general LPG discussions the negative would be highlighted and the supposed bonus shown for what it is.  

AC is a brand-name, according to one of your screen shots you have AC's W03 type injectors fitted. AC will probably be the brand of all your under-bonnet components, AC originally only produced ECU's (AC Stag), then went on to put AC Stag labels on injectors and pressure reducers produced by other LPG systems components manufacturers, then went on the produce their own injectors and reducers most of which very much resemble other manufacturers injectors (mostly Valtek) and reducers (mostly Tomasetto). 

Apologies for my tone in my first post above, I've been on some forums where a certain LPG installation firm sponsors the forum and gives discount on an LPG conversion to forum admin/moderators, the admin/mod then sings the praises of said firm and prevents anyone (particularly other installer firms) saying anything negative about said firm on pain of a ban. .I half expected a ban after posting above but can now tell by your reasonable reply that you won't be 'that' Steve. Not usually paranoid, honest lol! 

[+Steve]

I can assure you that profess have not paid me to give praises. The workmanship was impeccable compared to a lot of other installations i have recently seen. But hey what do I know??

In regards to tweeks, I have no idea what tweeks if any. The installation is looked over but I have no idea what is done. I make the connection with them, they look over stuff for a minute. Connection ends, see you next year.

Yes I am the same Steve, and if I am right you have a grudge against Profess or AC or both or any other LPG installer? Not sure why you are so negative against someone elses work? Doesn't bode well. You are much better being positive with your advice instead of slating others. Guess what, it doesn't work here.

Yes you were right to be paranoid.

[Lpgc]

The other forum's moderator won't be you Steve, I got his name wrong, his name begins with M..  

What happens on that forum doesn't happen here or you might have sent me a warning, censored my posts or banned me. 

On that other forum I referred to M does admit an LPG firm pays that forum money and that in return he: Suppresses negative comments about that firm. Suppresses positive comments about the firm's competitors. Doesn't allow the firm's competitors to post, not even to help someone with a question on the subject they are expert in, not even if firm names are not mentioned.  

On that forum the well known long term users who know the situation tiptoe around the subject of LPG for fear of being sanctioned, having their posts censored or ultimately getting banned. Users of that forum who don't know the situation will read posts and comments that are biased/censored (due to M) but won't be aware of the bias/censorship and will expect the forum to be unbiased and not censored..so those users are in some ways being misled by biased threads that give the impression of open discussion. Analogy - We see full page adverts in newspapers that read like a report from an unbiased reporter but in this case there is at least writing at the top of the page identifying the feature as an advert. In the case of that forum you don't get anything to identify the forum (as a whole) or individual posts as biased and other forum users are not allowed to tell you, not even in a private message on that forum.  

On top of this, the firm never seems to be around on that forum. So because other experts in the field are not allowed to post that forum is devoid of any experts who might otherwise have helped it's users by answering questions on the subject etc. Instead, M, who isn't an expert and seems to have a lot of misunderstandings and beliefs that fly in the face of general expert knowledge/opinion, sometimes gives his own advice on the subject and his advice is often wrong. If the forum were open, experts (plural) might comment, in which case the forum would be more useful and better match the expectations of members who expect a forum to allow free speech (obviously stopping short of abuse), unbiased, a place they can enjoy talking about their interest and give/receive help and advice.

Sorry again if my first few posts wound anyone up Steve... The way in which you received them goes a long way toward showing this forum is far more open than that forum. I don't have a grudge against any firms and know of some decent LPG installs that use AC electronics. I am an expert in LPG systems, very familiar with a wide range of LPG systems and often give help/tips on many forums. I replied to several users technical nature posts on the forum where M is a moderator which were appreciated by forum members but then M deleted those threads. 

[Lpgc]

Currently converting a 2.4 4 cylinder engine Alphard to LPG. 

Yesterday I fitted the 93 Litre tank (which fits easily with loads of ground clearance...maybe I'll fit a 105 litre tank on my next Alphard conversion) and hidden LPG filling point (fitted behind the petrol door so not visible on the vehicle), have run the fuel (LPG) pipe and the wiring from the tank underneath the vehicle to the engine bay. Today I've done most of the work in the engine bay. All that remains to be done is fitting the necessary engine valve protection system and spending a few hours in it on the road doing a properly thorough job of the system calibration so that it will never need any 'tweeks'. (Tweeks -= messing with calibration because it was never done right in the first place). Fitted the liquid phase and vapour phase filters in very easy to access locations in case the owner ever wants to do his own servicing (a service of course means changing serviceable items such as filters, in fact the filters change is all that will ever need to be done at service time. It is worthwhile checking LPG system calibration at service time but this should normally be done via the vehicle's OBD system and NOT via the LPG system interface. The 'tune' of LPG systems never changes, same as the 'tune' of your petrol fuel injection system never changes (e.g. you do NOT expect your MOT tester to need to re-map your petrol fuel system lol, that would never be the case! So you should NEVEr  need 'tweeks' on a properly component chosen, properly fitted and properly calibrated LPG system. But, just in case anyone feels the need...  I could, if there were ever the need (can't think of any reason) connect to your LPG system ECU via Windows free built-in remote computer access facility and adjust your LPG settings that way (just as I could use Windows free built in facility to do anything else on your computer just as though I were sitting in front of your computer), just that there would never be any point. It would be far more useful if could connect to your OBD point than connect to your LPG system software. I could connect to your vehicle's OBD port if I sold you a cheap interface and made use of Windows free remote computer access software. But, there should never be the need. The best idea is that your LPG system is setup and tuned properly before you collect the car and then it will never need any tweeks. 

The owner of this Alphard isn't picking it up until the weekend and I have a Nissan Elgrand here to convert before this is collected (another Elgrand, I've converted over 90 Elgrands over the last 2 years), plus the owner of a suped-up 600bhp Merc E55AMG Kompressor that I converted a few weeks ago is coming in tomorrow to have his filler point shifted tomorrow (from below rear bumper as he originally asked for to a hidden type).. So may be a few days before I get the Alphard all done but when done it will be perfect. 

Plenty pics of the install if anyone would like to see them?

[Corrour]

Would like to see the photos if possible please 

[zebila]

Hello, I am about to buy a Toyota Alphard and have to decide if a 4x4 and or a 2.4 4 Cylinder or a 3.0 6 Cylinder. I am planing to convert it to dual gasoline/LPG and add

a tow bar to pull a aerodynamic trailer (to put four bikes during the drive and sleep during the night)  We are a family of four and will use both the Toyota and the trailer to 

sleep in.  We will take the combo to the Alps as well...Any thoughts regarding which  Toyoto Alphard would be my best choice?

 

Greetings 

[RUToyota]

Welcome...doubt you can wrong with any Alphard...just get the seating configuration that suits your needs....7 seat/8 seat...often the difference is two separate seats in the middle...or a bench.

Engine-wise...I don't think there's much difference in economy between the 2.4 and the V6...I wanted the the sweet V6 when I got my Estima...the LPG conversion is personal choice..depends on the mileage you are gonna do and if you want to see your investment back in an acceptable time frame.

Mine also has 4wd..but of course it isn't a full blown 4x4 as in a RR/Disco/Shogun etc..mine has Toyota's active torque control...I didn't specifically want it but the Estima I wanted/bought  happened to have it...useful though I guess.

Check out the tow bar issue..make sure you can get one for your model...being an import.I know I can get one for my Estima so I guess the Alphard should be ok too

 

Good luck

[TP49]

Hi zebila welcome, also bear in mind the 3.0 v6 has a cam belt the 2.4 has a chain. It seems your going to the  a fair amount of mileage so you will probably benefit from having LPG conversion. Enjoy your Alphard.

[RUToyota]

Good point, Tony...some peeps do have "cam belt anxiety"..lol....and prefer chain.

Didn't much concern me personally and the cam belt was changed when I bought the vehicle..and that should be fine for a good 70/80k miles or so.

It's my understanding also that the 1MZ-FE V6 is non-interference so should the belt ever fail then the "damage" is minimal.

[TP49]

Hi Neil good if the belt goes it doesn't do much damage. It's always amazed me that a belt is used on an engine which is an expensive bit of kit to repair or replace.

[RUToyota]

2 hours ago, TP49 said:

Hi Neil good if the belt goes it doesn't do much damage. It's always amazed me that a belt is used on an engine which is an expensive bit of kit to repair or replace.

Very true, Tony...does seem illogical when in most cases a cam belt failure can do so much expensive damage.

[zebila]

Hello, and thanks for the warm welcome. So in regard of LPG, it is fine if a 2.4 or a 3.0 (same as V6?) I was told, there might be a space issue after converting the

V6 to LPG, like if a mechanic has to work on the engine it might be harder due to lack of space.

Also, if I take the 4x4 V6, how big of a tank I could use for the LPG? Looks like many sizes available... 60l. 90, 100 and more..

I make sure the belt will be changed before I take the car:)

 

[RUToyota]

No idea what space you'll need as I've never had an LPG conversion done...All I can say is that with the V6 the engine bay is full.!!!...which reminds me .....if you go for the V6 then have the spark plugs changed for long life ones (eg Denso Iridium)..as the rear three are very difficult to access.

The guys who did mine said that the three rear plugs took as long as doing the cam belt..!!

[zebila]

Hello Neil, 

thank you, yes will change cam belt and spark plugs! 

Zebila

[zebila]

Any one else out there, that has converted a 3.0 or V6 Toyota Alphard to LPG?

 

Greetings

 

 

[dezufo]

Hi all, I know this is an old thread but I have just arranged to get a MNH15 2003 in a lovely metallic silver just waiting for it to be registered.  I will be having a LPG system fitted at some point in the future more than likely by Lpgc as he knows his stuff.

[Didofido]

On 10/16/2018 at 11:50 PM, Lpgc said:

Currently converting a 2.4 4 cylinder engine Alphard to LPG. 

Yesterday I fitted the 93 Litre tank (which fits easily with loads of ground clearance...maybe I'll fit a 105 litre tank on my next Alphard conversion) and hidden LPG filling point (fitted behind the petrol door so not visible on the vehicle), have run the fuel (LPG) pipe and the wiring from the tank underneath the vehicle to the engine bay. Today I've done most of the work in the engine bay. All that remains to be done is fitting the necessary engine valve protection system and spending a few hours in it on the road doing a properly thorough job of the system calibration so that it will never need any 'tweeks'. (Tweeks -= messing with calibration because it was never done right in the first place). Fitted the liquid phase and vapour phase filters in very easy to access locations in case the owner ever wants to do his own servicing (a service of course means changing serviceable items such as filters, in fact the filters change is all that will ever need to be done at service time. It is worthwhile checking LPG system calibration at service time but this should normally be done via the vehicle's OBD system and NOT via the LPG system interface. The 'tune' of LPG systems never changes, same as the 'tune' of your petrol fuel injection system never changes (e.g. you do NOT expect your MOT tester to need to re-map your petrol fuel system lol, that would never be the case! So you should NEVEr  need 'tweeks' on a properly component chosen, properly fitted and properly calibrated LPG system. But, just in case anyone feels the need...  I could, if there were ever the need (can't think of any reason) connect to your LPG system ECU via Windows free built-in remote computer access facility and adjust your LPG settings that way (just as I could use Windows free built in facility to do anything else on your computer just as though I were sitting in front of your computer), just that there would never be any point. It would be far more useful if could connect to your OBD point than connect to your LPG system software. I could connect to your vehicle's OBD port if I sold you a cheap interface and made use of Windows free remote computer access software. But, there should never be the need. The best idea is that your LPG system is setup and tuned properly before you collect the car and then it will never need any tweeks. 

The owner of this Alphard isn't picking it up until the weekend and I have a Nissan Elgrand here to convert before this is collected (another Elgrand, I've converted over 90 Elgrands over the last 2 years), plus the owner of a suped-up 600bhp Merc E55AMG Kompressor that I converted a few weeks ago is coming in tomorrow to have his filler point shifted tomorrow (from below rear bumper as he originally asked for to a hidden type).. So may be a few days before I get the Alphard all done but when done it will be perfect. 

Plenty pics of the install if anyone would like to see them?

Hi I am currently looking at buying a 2.4L Alphard I want to convert to LPG as i do a lot of miles. Greece and back. 

I am in South East England. Looking at your replies you know a lot about conversions. Are you still converting as these messages are a few years old? I am clueless and didn’t realise how much is involved and don’t want a bad job done. 

[Lpgc]

I haven't checked this forum for a long time but I have converted a dozen or so Alphards since my last post... and 400+ Elgrands since my last post as anyone on ElgrandOC forum will attest. 

 

Only had minor problems on a couple of the 400 Elgrands I converted to LPG, one of those was in Bristol, another was in Truro (Cornwall). I'm in Yorkshire but on separate occasions I travelled to Bristol and Truro from Yorkshire and fixed the problems outside the customer's house. 

 

I am only reminded to re-visit this forum because I have a few more Alphards to convert to LPG before Xmas.