What Engine from the BMW is in the Verso diesel?

[LOVEJAP]

Hi all,

I've heard different views from people about the 2014 Auris, Verso and Avensis 1.6D has either the mini cooper one diesel, or the BMW 116d efficiency dynamics engine and one go as far as the 116d twin turbo engine lol Does anyone one what one it actually is? Any proof? Toyota confirmed today its the same engine being rolled out in all three models. 

Cheers

[AYGOSTU]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:22 PM, LOVEJAP said:

Hi all,

I've heard different views from people about the 2014 Auris, Verso and Avensis 1.6D has either the mini cooper one diesel, or the BMW 116d efficiency dynamics engine and one go as far as the 116d twin turbo engine lol Does anyone one what one it actually is? Any proof? Toyota confirmed today its the same engine being rolled out in all three models. 

Cheers

From what I know its the BMW 1.6d engine as used in the current mini and the 1 series. It uses a single 'twinscroll' turbo (not Twin Turbo (2 turbos), very different)

 

 

[Heidfirst]

N47 variant afaik

[Debbie McBay]

Just to let you know that I have a 1.6 Verso and the cam chain has jumped/ broken and I'm having issues getting it repaired under warranty.   So if you have this engine I would enquire about getting the chain replaced before this happens to you. 

[Heidfirst]

Hi Debbie, welcome to TOC 

Sorry to hear that, how many miles on it? Has it always been serviced to Toyota schedule/standards?

[Debbie McBay]

Hi it's got 92k on it.   It's not been serviced at Toyota after the first service was over £300 and they tried to tell me I needed 2 new tyres when I didn't.   It's been serviced before 10k each time at an independent garage. I have the receipts for the parts which have been given to Toyota. 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

As with any new car warranty, not just Toyota, where a vehicle has been serviced outside of the dealer network during the new car warranty period, in the event of a warranty claim the onus is on the owner to provide proof the vehicles has been serviced in accordance with the manufacturer schedules and requirements, and that parts used are of sufficient quality. 

So all Toyota are asking for is for you to prove that the servicing and parts used are thus.

If for any reason it hasn't been serviced according to the manufacturer's requirements, the parts used are of insufficient quality,  or the proof is insufficient, the claim could be refused. This applies to any manufacturer, not just Toyota.

[Debbie McBay]

I agree and i have no issue with that but this fault was known about before Toyota put these engines in the Verso.   If you look online the BMW N47 engine is renowned for this issue.  BMW must have been rubbing their hands when they offloaded them to Toyota. 

[AYGOSTU]

Sorry to hear about your issue. I have today taken out a 3 yr service plan on our 2016 Verso to keep everything main dealer. It was actually a really good price. In regards to the N47 motor, I had this in 2 other BMW 3 series that I did many miles in. They all performed faultlessly. I know there are reports of failure but I have not heard of anyone had a refusal on this if happens inside warranty. So I guess If your independent garage has stuck exactly to the service reigieme, with OEM parts you should be fine. 

[Heidfirst]

Supposedly BMW had resolved the chain issue in the N47 before they stopped using them themselves. Also, the Toyota version supposedly is a modified version of even the BMW.

Out of interest, did you allow the engine to idle for a while after a journey to allow the turbo to cool before switching off or just switch straight off all the time?

Toyota are probably the best of the major car manufacturers in terms of backing their products under warranty - you only have to look at the 1AD/2AD engine warranty replacements to see that. With your car being under 100k/5 years as long as they are happy about everything on the maintenance side hopefully you should be OK.

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards the timing chain issues, the affected engines were manufactured between 1st March 2007 and 1st March 2013, with the most seriously affected engines produced up to January 2009. The Toyota modified engine was fitted to the Verso on sale from January 2014.

[Debbie McBay]

I hadn't gone far on the day it happened, but I never just turn off the ignition after a run.   

I know of 2 other Verso drivers locally who have had to have their engine to bits because of this issue.   I have also spoken to engine reconditioners who are still getting these engines in on a weekly basis. 

I hope I've provided Toyota with everything they need, I should hear something tomorrow according to Listers. 

[Debbie McBay]

 there has been an email sent to Toyota technicians from head office advising them that there is an issue with the chains or tensioner. 

[Rash224]

Hi Debbie hope you’re car is working well now. Just join this forum recently I would love to know if you have managed to fix the timing chain problem. I am having the same problem. 

 

Thank you 

[Debbie McBay]

I've got the 1.6 diesel 64 plate.   Haven Tully had it serviced on time and by Toyota or a LARGE garage outlet? Mine was finally fixed at a local garage in the end it cost me £3000 but that is south a new clutch and dual mass flywheel as well.  Toyota were absolutely useless.  My car is my business so I couldn't carry oin fighting Toyota wanted £6800.  Good luck. 

[TheCarOnTowIsAToyota]

I have a similar issue, 15 plate Verso with 90k miles, serviced by toyota on a yearly basis with 3 intermediate services and 2 full services  It’s had the timing chain recall by the previous owner and it’s now been diagnosed with the timing chain issue again!  They won’t fix it under warranty even though the car is under 5 years and less than 100k.  Apparently it should have been serviced every 12.5k miles.  I’ve been quoted nearly £3k.  Toyota are absolutely pathetic, I’ve tried to log a complaint however they’ve told me that the franchised dealership have the final say. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The service interval for cars with the BMW diesel engine is every 12 months or 12,500 miles, whichever occurs first, or unless the service indicator displays that a service is required sooner than the 12 months/12,500 miles. Your service and warranty booklet will show the required service intervals for your car.

As your car is under 5 years old, and has done 90K miles, the average mileage between services must be around 18,000 to 22,000 miles. See 

Presumably as the car hasn't been serviced according to Toyota's service intervals, that is why the warranty claim has been refused.

For engines with timing chains, it is important to have regular oil changes to avoid issues occurring.

Any other manufacturer will refuse a warranty claim where their service intervals haven't been adhered to and the claim (as in this instance) is dependent on correct servicing being done.

[Heidfirst]

5 hours ago, TheCarOnTowIsAToyota said:

 Toyota are absolutely pathetic, I’ve tried to log a complaint however they’ve told me that the franchised dealership have the final say. 

Toyota usually are 1 of the best of the mass manufacturers at standing behind their warranty. Typically they allow you 1 month or 1,000 miles leeway for a service.

At 90k it should have had a minimum of 7 services yet has had only 5 ...

[threepot]

These 1.6 diesel engines are a bum deal. BMW laughed all the way to the bank off loading them onto Toyota while BMW moved to the B47 in all its cars.
There is a lot of hype about how Toyota totally reworked timing chain gear, but its all bull.
If you buy an aftermarket timing chain kit for one of these Toyota's like a Verso, Rav4 or Avensis, you will notice the timing chain kit is exactly the same as the BMW kit.
For example, look what this kit fits on the list:- 

 

Quote

MINI MINI (R56) Cooper D	06.10 - 11.13	82	112	1598	Hatchback
MINI MINI (R56) Cooper D	02.11 - 11.13	82	112	1995	Hatchback
MINI MINI (R56) Cooper SD	02.11 - 11.13	100	136	1995	Hatchback
MINI MINI (R56) Cooper SD	02.11 - 11.13	105	143	1995	Hatchback
MINI MINI (R56) One D	07.10 - 11.13	66	90	1598	Hatchback
MINI MINI CLUBMAN (R55) Cooper D	03.10 - 06.14	82	112	1598	Estate
MINI MINI CLUBMAN (R55) Cooper D	02.11 - 06.14	82	112	1995	Estate
MINI MINI CLUBMAN (R55) Cooper SD	02.11 - 06.14	105	143	1995	Estate
MINI MINI CLUBMAN (R55) Cooper SD	02.11 - 06.14	100	136	1995	Estate
MINI MINI CLUBMAN (R55) One D	03.10 - 06.14	66	90	1598	Estate
MINI MINI CLUBVAN (R55) Cooper D	12.12 - 06.14	82	112	1598	Box Body / Estate
MINI MINI Convertible (R57) Cooper D	05.09 - 11.13	82	112	1598	Convertible
MINI MINI Convertible (R57) Cooper D	02.11 - 05.15	82	112	1995	Convertible
MINI MINI Convertible (R57) Cooper SD	06.09 - 05.15	105	143	1995	Convertible
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper D	08.10 - 10.16	82	112	1598	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper D	01.10 - 10.16	82	112	1995	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper D ALL4	01.10 - 09.16	82	112	1598	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper D ALL4	03.11 - 10.16	82	112	1995	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper SD	03.11 - 10.16	105	143	1995	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper SD ALL4	01.10 - 09.16	100	136	1995	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) Cooper SD ALL4	01.10 - 09.16	105	143	1995	Estate
MINI MINI COUNTRYMAN (R60) One D	01.10 - 10.16	66	90	1598	Estate
MINI MINI Coupe (R58) Cooper SD	12.10 - 05.15	100	136	1995	Coupe
MINI MINI Coupe (R58) Cooper SD	12.10 - 05.15	105	143	1995	Coupe
MINI MINI PACEMAN (R61) Cooper D	04.12 - 09.16	82	112	1598	Coupe
MINI MINI PACEMAN (R61) Cooper D	07.12 - 09.16	82	112	1995	Coupe
MINI MINI PACEMAN (R61) Cooper D ALL4	04.12 - 09.16	82	112	1598	Coupe
MINI MINI PACEMAN (R61) Cooper D ALL4	03.12 - 09.16	82	112	1995	Coupe
MINI MINI PACEMAN (R61) Cooper SD	03.12 - 09.16	105	143	1995	Coupe
MINI MINI PACEMAN (R61) Cooper SD ALL4	04.12 - 09.16	105	143	1995	Coupe
MINI MINI Roadster (R59) Cooper SD	11.11 - 04.15	100	136	1995	Convertible
MINI MINI Roadster (R59) Cooper SD	11.11 - 04.15	105	143	1995	Convertible
TOYOTA AVENSIS Estate (_T27_) 2.0 D-4D (WWT271_)	04.15 -	105	143	1995	Estate
TOYOTA AVENSIS Saloon (_T27_) 2.0 D-4D (WWT271_)	04.15 -	105	143	1995	Saloon
TOYOTA RAV 4 IV (_A4_) 2.0 D (WWA42_)	10.15 -	105	143	1995	Closed Off-Road Vehicle
TOYOTA VERSO (_R2_) 1.6 D4-D (WAR20_)	11.13 -	82	112	1598	MPV

Included in the kit are the following items:

 

4 Guide Rails

86 Link Chain

70 Link Chain

48 Link Chain

1 Sprocket

1 Adjuster

1 Tensioner

1 Gear

 

Cross references: TCK133, 13528572504

 

The engine fitted to the Toyota is the BMW N47C16a, they can try to hide it behind the name 1WW all they like, but if you look closely at the block you will find that N47 stamp of shame.

Not only are the 3 timing chains really poorly made flimsy chains, but the guides and tensioner feel really cheap too, just like all modern post 2003 BWM engine parts, disposable cheap plastic over complicated garbage.

Even 10k mile oil changes are pushing it with these disposable engines. Maybe 6k engine oil changes would stop the chain tensioner from clogging up. Longer journeys help, short trips are a killer.

These engines are a typical example of the disposable society we live in - a cam chain made on the cheap, fitted on the flywheel end of the engine so the whole engine or gearbox has to come out to replace a "consumable" item. Back in the old days, we put cam chains on engines that ran for 400k miles like HGV's. We used to put belts on road cars so they could be easily changed cheaply. These modern engines with their cheap little chains in non serviceable location make a laughing stock of the consumer.

I too have a 52k 64 plate verso with the chain hanging off it slack and jumped, and muggins here is stripping it down to resolve it.

I work in the garage industry, and it's rare to turn upto a garage that doesn't have a mini or a bmw 1.6 / 2.0 diesel with engine in bits doing a chain job on them.

I have a driveway covered in Toyota's, maybe a bit of a fanboy you could say, but Toyota are really letting down their name outsourcing poorly designed engines that will give them bed rep. If they can't develop a worthy diesel, don't sell one.

[Catlover]

5 hours ago, threepot said:

I have a driveway covered in Toyota's, maybe a bit of a fanboy you could say, but Toyota are really letting down their name outsourcing poorly designed engines that will give them bed rep. If they can't develop a worthy diesel, don't sell one.

And as I understand, apart from commercial vehicles and Hi-Lux they are stopping selling diesel engined vehicles by end of this year, but for different reasons then cam chain failures.

[threepot]

Painfully the Toyota Proace van is a Sevel Nord Peugeot Citroen that is a complete !Removed! too. A rebranded Citreon Dispatch / Fiat Scudo / Peugoet Expert / Vauxhall Vivaro. It's not doing good things for the Toyota brand, and Toyota are selling less of this size van than ever before.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think the main reason Toyota partnered with another manufacturer such as PSA for LCV's is that they were unable to compete with European-manufactured vehicles which were heavily discounted. Sales volumes probably didn't justify Toyota producing LCV's in Europe. Same reason the Previa was discontinued in Europe. 

Now back to the topic subject.

[threepot]

This is the main culprit on my Verso 1.6 diesel, it's the top cam chain pulley.

It has no teeth left!

And the tensioner is extended to its maximum.

When I take the gearbox out over the next few days I will post more pictures.

[threepot]

New verses old.....

[threepot]

I read on a post somewhere about "why is my oil always dirty straight after a service" regarding these BMW engines. Well that is because when you drain the oil out the drain bung, the sump still catches about 1 litre of dirty oil!! The drain bung is not at the bottom, it is a very poor design. So after you change the oil with fresh oil, your still running about about 20% dirty grim oil 🤐

 

Approximately 25 man hours into doing this job and its not fully put back together!

All 3 chains, guides and tensioners are on, flywheel, clutch, gearbox is back in, driveshafts, mounts and heavy stuff is back together.

Just need to build up all the small stuff up top, like EGR, EGR cooler, throttle body, injectors, vac pipes, wiring harness, covers etc etc. Then fill with engine oil and gearbox oil.

I'd say about another 5 hours to go into yet before the first start up.

And for the record, I would never do this job again, even for a ridiculous amount of money.