Is the Prius good for motorway bashing

[Whitton Race]

Hi all, it is time to get on with changing my car and I am wondering whether the Prius would be a good move over a Mondeo diesel for 35K motorway miles each year?  Really around the engine size in real-world overtaking and fuel economy in this fashion.  

There is all the uncertainty over how diesels will be treated going forwards and, living on the edge or London suburbia and at only 70 CO2, when I took a Prius out for a test this morning and I found it rather mixed.  The dealer was very accommodating and allowed me to do a motorway run but, to be fair, when there is so much different between a diesel mile-cruncher and the hybrid that any short test drive is always going to leave questions.

There was a lot a liked about the car, particularly the technology and safety features, but I never found that it really settled down into its stride and with the 'novel' dash / console arrangement it never felt as cosseting as many of the similar motorway diesel vehicles that are available - some of that is personal 'fit' (I found the door armrest a bit low) but the absence of the 'flowing' centre console like you find in a 3-series or A4 makes a big difference.  I know this is not needed on a hybrid as the drive train does not need the tunnel like a more conventional car, but the C-HR and Auris hybrids both had a more driver-focused interior.  Some things did seem to have been done 'oddly' either just for the sake of making a statement (foot handbrake) or through just being poor design (inaccessible minor switches and a reach to the gear selector) - again these seemed all better placed in the C-HR and Auris.  Some aspects are personal choice as well, but the glossy plastics are un-common in the market-place and if what was there was lifted up with a sliding cover like many cars have it would give more flexibility and security as no need to leave things on open display.  Price-wise this car is competing directly with the main-stream company cars, so the experience has to be there too.

On the short run it was hard to tell if the power was there for proper motorway driving and manoeuvres, even our roads are empty enough not to need a great deal of overtaking early on a Saturday morning.  The Prius is a small engine (100 BHP or 120 BHP including electric motor) compared to the 150 BHP that is more typical in the car I would choose (I know the super-eco diesels are around 100-110ish but that is not what I would choose).  I was also really concerned to understand what fuel consumption I would actually end up with - whether it would compare to a Diesel under similar motorway mileage, or whether it would be like having a normal petrol saloon car in terms of visiting the petrol station.

There was a lot I liked about the Prius and a lot I wanted to like, but I am hoping contributors here can give real-world insight into what this will be like on the motorway for power delivery and fuel.  If I still doubt the Prius after that (but not the Hybrid) I may look further at the C-HR or Lexus options.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Whitton Race said:

 Some things did seem to have been done 'oddly' either just for the sake of making a statement (foot handbrake) or through just being poor design (inaccessible minor switches and a reach to the gear selector) - again these seemed all better placed in the C-HR and Auris.  

I think what you are seeing is the difference between a car aimed mainly at the American market (foot parking brake is common there) whereas the Auris & C-HR are European designs.

As for economy, if you are going to do the majority of your mileage at 70-80mph you are going to get mpg like a petrol as the car is going to be running on ICE the majority of the time. What you won't have is a DPF to go wrong (again shouldn't really be an issue on a diesel used mostly for motorway work), no AdBlue & a drivetrain that is good for hundreds of thousands of miles. I would think that BIK probably favours the Prius over a diesel?

[BhxTrev]

Hi Nigel,

After reading your posting I thought to myself, this person shouldn't bother with a Prius.

It's your choice but I love my Prius, which is great for what I expect out of it. I only ever bought a diesel once. That was a top of the range, Ford Escort turbo diesel. Nothing but trouble with problem after problem. What a bag of nails. It spent more time in the garage than driving it. Nothing would ever make me buy diesel ever again & believe me if you want to be critical of the Prius, which by the way unlike what you quoted, has a BHP of 136 combining the petrol & electric engine, I would certainly forget the Prius & suggest you go & buy something else!

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards Lexus, the CT200h is based on the Auris, and is now quite an old design from 2011. The replacement Lexus has said, will be a crossover - so presumably C-HR based.

If you want to consider a hybrid with more power than either the Auris, C-HR or Prius (they use similar drivetrains), there is the 2.5 litre, 197bhp Rav4 hybrid.

Of course the Mondeo is over-sized for the European D market sector - one of Ford's 'world cars (the American version is the Fusion) - so probably needs 150bhp to provide reasonable performance.

[drives]

I do 20k solely motorway miles a year in my prius. It's quiet, refined, comfortable and economical. Now the weather has warmed up I'm getting 60-65mpg which easily matches the ecodiesels I drive at work and i generally drive between 70-80, normally maintaining mid 70s. It was high 50s mpg-wise in winter. For me it came down to whether I preferred diesel or petrols, and I hate diesels for various reasons. To suggest it's no better than any other petrol in terms of fuel economy at motorway speeds, as one of the replies suggests, is not correct at all. The ice is engaged most of the time and how it works out so economical at these speeds, I dont really know. But it does.

[Whitton Race]

Thanks for the comments.  I do like the Prius, and it certainly remains in my contention, which is why I put the post (sorry if I gave the impression that I did not like it).  If the Prius had an interior a bit more C-HR like then it would be right up there.  With all the technology fitted it really was an easy drive, but it does need to be the right car for my motoring also.

It does look as though there is some variance of opinion on motorway fuel economy, from Heidfirst "mpg like a petrol" (which is what I feared) to Drives saying I could well be up in the 60+ mpg, which would be great.  

[BhxTrev]

If it's miles to the gallon you're concerned with, I've just driven 120 miles in my Gen 4 Prius, half of it motorway the other half A roads mainly & I've clocked a very respectable 72.8 MPG! I drove down the motorway at around 70 & wherever I could drove at 60 otherwise. I certainly easily get well into the 50s just tootling around at home. Be warned, like all cars if the weather is cold or inclement your MPG will drop especially in the winter when it's really cold but I reckon the Prius is still giving better MPG than comparative regular petrol cars & diesels! 

[PeteB]

To state the obvious, lots of different elements go into what makes one person like one car and another hate it.

I'm on my 7th Prius since 2002, having done almost 300,000 miles in them in all four generations.  Before I bought my latest 4th Generation, I looked at many options including a £75,000 Tesla, the BMW i3 with range extender, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and Lexus NX.

At least Nigel can justify a diesel for the type of journeys he does; too many people I know have bought them because the VED favoured them, but their short journey motoring made them uneconomical for them.  A couple I worked out their true mpg and and they were gutted - including a guy who bought his first diesel last year and gets worse mpg than his previous petrol version.

Much as I hate people who park their diesels near me at the beach when I'm relaxing listening to the waves and leave them running (which is actually illegal! but zero chance of getting fined) there are some types of use for which they are essential, especially for heavy vehicles and towing.

However, after just 6 months, my first Prius was written off in a crash and I had so grown to love the smooth and relaxing way it drove I didn't want anything else (there were hardy any other Hybrids at the time).

Getting back to the current Prius, a lot depends on the way it is driven.  I have a relaxed driving style that favours mpg to a degree, but don't practice the extreme measures of some to get super good figures.  Also bear in mind the computer reported mpg is about 5% optimistic on average.  Personally, I love the interior, especially as I could choose a pleasant colour inside that wasn't all black, and I hate old fashioned dials.  I borrowed a C-HR recently and quite liked it, but nowhere near as much as my Prius.

I do a lot of shorter journeys with a few long ones each month, and my current overall true calculated pump to pump figure is 64½ mpg after almost 14,000 miles in 11 months.  At the end of the summer, the true average was 68 mpg.

On many of my longer journeys I cruise at the indicated speed limit up to 60 mph (trues 57), using the radar cruise control in ECO mode much of the time.  My best long journey mpg in great weather was 84 indicated (so take off 5%).

Some examples of longer motorway type trips where I went up to 70 on the clock as much as possible (all indicated so about 5% optimistic):

• October    224 miles    74.6 mpg    15°C
• October    226 miles    75.8 mpg    14°C
• March    100 miles    67.5 mpg    8°C
• March    103 miles    66.0 mpg    8°C

I've had some diesel hire cars and some of them have been surprisingly refined, even when started from cold, but some really expensive and quite new metal that's been parked near me at the beach have sounded like 1950s Massey Ferguson tractors even though warmed up!

At least diesels made in the last couple of years (EURO 6 compliant) are fairly clean when used in ideal conditions, but when used for lots of short journeys they're still bad news (NOx emission wise) as most of the devices that clean them up only work when warmed up.  Low mileage users can also look forward to some very expensive maintenance issues if they're not careful.

Regardless, I think diesel drivers are in for some challenging image issues especially as the government is finally starting to feel the sharp end of legislation they've been neglecting for too many years.  Note that London has already started charging 50% extra for parking for non EURO 6 diesels.

 

[PeteB]

15 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

...i you want to consider a hybrid with more power than either the Auris, C-HR or Prius (they use similar drivetrains), there is the 2.5 litre, 197bhp Rav4 hybrid...

I test drove the Lexus NX Hybrid a while back and I believe it's the same platform and engine as the RAV4.  The RAV4 may or may not be slightly lighter and/or quicker, but the performance of the NX was very similar to the Prius - same top speed and I think one second quicker to 62.  It didn't feel any faster on the road.  I don't think it's fuel consumption will appeal to Nigel either.

If it's of any interested, I wrote up my test drive here:

http://www.biwel.com/pmb01/PeteBs Lexus NX Test Drive.pdf

[BhxTrev]

Hi Pete,

The MPG I'm getting seems similar to what you are getting though I have the 17inch wheels which therefore knocks a few MPG off but nevertheless still a good MPG return as far as I'm concerned. If I decide to replace my Prius in the future it will be the Prius with 15 inch wheels! Something I've noticed with both my Prius cars, when you dip the oil it's always a nice golden colour & unlike other cars I've had in the past, the oil shows very little if any sooty black deposits. 

[PeteB]

2 minutes ago, BhxTrev said:

...when you dip the oil it's always a nice golden colour & unlike other cars I've had in the past, the oil shows very little if any sooty black deposits. 

Yes, even when I sold my 2nd Gen 1 Prius, 9 years old over 163,000 on the clock, the oil stayed completely clean from one service to the next (as did the spark plugs).  After 100k, it did start to use a little oil though, in the end after about 7,000 miles I'd put 1 Litre in and it would stay above MIN until the next service.

[drives]

3 hours ago, Whitton Race said:

Thanks for the comments.  I do like the Prius, and it certainly remains in my contention, which is why I put the post (sorry if I gave the impression that I did not like it).  If the Prius had an interior a bit more C-HR like then it would be right up there.  With all the technology fitted it really was an easy drive, but it does need to be the right car for my motoring also.

It does look as though there is some variance of opinion on motorway fuel economy, from Heidfirst "mpg like a petrol" (which is what I feared) to Drives saying I could well be up in the 60+ mpg, which would be great.  

 

I can only assume Heidfirst either doesn't do much if any motorway driving, or doesn't own a prius. It's one of the common misconceptions around hybrids when I was researching before buying. Mines a gen 3 by the way, with 17" alloys. I found the mpg to be around 3-4 out calculated at pump vs display. 

[PeteB]

19 hours ago, Whitton Race said:

...in terms of visiting the petrol station...

Reading again prompts me to another observation:  If I run the Prius until it says there's less than 20 miles worth left in the tank, at the current prices I can squeeze about £42 worth of ordinary unleaded in to brim it. On a reasonable mix of longer runs I get over 600 miles out of it. Very happy with that.

I'm very happy even doing a 300 mule journey on mostly motorways in it (as I was in less powerful Gen 1 & 2 Prius), but if I was a more aggressive driver I'd maybe be less happy.

Is yours a company car? If so maybe your fleet manager could arrange a 2-3 day test.  Otherwise, see the service manager at your local dealer, point out how many services you'd need with your mileage and see if he can nobble one.

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, drives said:

I can only assume Heidfirst either doesn't do much if any motorway driving, or doesn't own a prius. It's one of the common misconceptions around hybrids when I was researching before buying.  

I don't own a Prius but I have often driven them & I do & have done a lot of motorway driving  (over 1 million miles) - if you do a true 70-80mph it runs exclusively as an ICE hence returns fuel economy at that speed like the petrol that it then is (albeit a very efficient one at 40% thermal efficiency) .... Now, if you are doing slower speeds, (either constantly or lots of stop/start congested motorways etc.) that allow it to work in combination then you will return higher mpg.

Where they really score over a diesel of course is in a more urban environment.

[Whitton Race]

Maybe they work on the motorway through the combination of 70 mph for a bit followed by stuck in a jam for a bit?

It was so easy to drive when I tested it that it does put me really thinking about moving away from diesels (as I didn't think there were any real contenders but concerned as the diesel driver looks like facing punishment ahead).  If not the Prius, then maybe the C-HR or a Lexus (I think they also have the same safety equipment) - the C-HR is expensive as they are not getting through to the used market yet so that would mean a bit of a wait for me.  I could probably find a nice Prius or Lexus in the same price range as each other.

[PeteB]

I get my best mpg in two main types of driving (if traffic and weather are favourable):

1. when driving for at least half an hour in local urban environments doing 20-30 mph
2. on motorways or fast dual carriageways even at 70 for extended periods.

On the journeys I mentioned above, the longest two the computer showed (and I recorded in my database) the average journey speed and % of time in EV (engine off):

• October    224 miles    74.6 mpg    15°C    average 49 mph    16% EV

• October    226 miles    75.8 mpg    14°C    average 50 mph    20% EV

True the engine is running much more of the time, but it's very efficient.  At town speeds I often log EV% of 50+.  On the Gen 4 the car may go into EV operation up to 60 mph (on the speedo).  [This is not the same as using the EV Mode button, which only works up to 25-35 mph when HV State of Charge, Battery and engine temperatures permit].

[johalareewi]

Is WR looking at a new Prius (gen4) or a used Prius (gen1 / gen2 / gen3)?

"f you are going to do the majority of your mileage at 70-80mph you are going to get mpg like a petrol as the car is going to be running on ICE the majority of the time"

Not true. MPGs will be better with the Prius than a normal petrol car. You can use something like Hybrid Assistant to see how often the ICE is used. It is surprising how much the ICE is not used when doing 70-80 over long distances.

[YarisHybrid2016]

I haven't been scientific in my methodology (I don't do long distance regularly) but when I do hit the motorway, I can expect 55-60 MPG using cruise (which I have found increases fuel consumption significantly), however when I'm manually holding speed, I can easily get 60+ out of it, so the Prius will only be better than this (I have a Yaris Hybrid). I drive at 70 MPH on the motorway, but I do have a fairly relaxed driving style.

How many miles did the car you test drive have on it? Hybrids are very sensitive regarding fuel consumption, so if it had even just a few thousand miles on it, it will still be loosening up. Mine is at 15k now, and it is still improving. Yesterday I achieved a computer reported 80 MPG on a typical 15 mile journey, and I wasn't even trying (that included about 1 mile driving in city conditions so EV mode most of the time). 14 miles of that was at 57 MPH (the sweet spot for economy). Conditions were +12 C, overcast, dry, calm winds.

You asked about overtaking - generally you will not find this to be a problem. Even my Yaris is more than adequate for passing other vehicles, up hill no less. In fact if I'm feeling sporty, I find it goes better than many cars of similar size in a "drag race" situation.

In fact, I have never had a situation where I thought the car lacked performance. You should ask to test drive for 24/48 hours (I had the option to do this - not sure if it is dealer dependent) and take it out for for a good drive down the motorway and see what you think. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Heidfirst]

5 hours ago, johalareewi said:

"f you are going to do the majority of your mileage at 70-80mph you are going to get mpg like a petrol as the car is going to be running on ICE the majority of the time"

Not true. MPGs will be better with the Prius than a normal petrol car. You can use something like Hybrid Assistant to see how often the ICE is used. It is surprising how much the ICE is not used when doing 70-80 over long distances.

At a true 70-80mph afaik even the gen 4 Prius runs as a pure ICE (the new Prius Plug-in however, apparently can use EV up to 84mph). 

There is no reason why it should be more efficient then than a normal petrol car of equivalent drag, weight & thermal efficiency.

[YarisHybrid2016]

I disagree - the electric motor is still present and doing useful work. The ICE at high speed is augmenting it as the electric motor lacks power, so the ICE helps out, but the ICE isn't taking the full load of the vehicle (it would require the electric motor to cease operation).

This is why at 70 MPH we can get 60+ MPG and not the more typical 35-40 MPG.

[Anthony Poli]

2 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I disagree - the electric motor is still present and doing useful work. The ICE at high speed is augmenting it as the electric motors lacks power, so the ICE helps out, but the ICE isn't taking the full load of the vehicle (it would require the electric motor to cease operation).

This is why at 70 MPH we can get 60+ MPG and not the more typical 35-40 MPG.

The OBD data confirms both electric motor and ICE are in use on the motorway. Since motorway speeds would be generating plenty of electricity and the batteries have a fixed capacity.

 

[drives]

On 5/7/2017 at 4:33 PM, Heidfirst said:

I don't own a Prius but I have often driven them & I do & have done a lot of motorway driving  (over 1 million miles) - if you do a true 70-80mph it runs exclusively as an ICE hence returns fuel economy at that speed like the petrol that it then is (albeit a very efficient one at 40% thermal efficiency) .... Now, if you are doing slower speeds, (either constantly or lots of stop/start congested motorways etc.) that allow it to work in combination then you will return higher mpg.

Where they really score over a diesel of course is in a more urban environment.

This just isn't correct and is misleading the initial poster. The prius is excellent on motorways economy wise. I am hardly ever stuck in traffic. I literally just blat down the motorway at 70 odd, 20 days a month for the last 18 months in a gen 3 prius. Everyone else replying is saying they get excellent economy on the motorway (who actually owns a prius, or other similar toyota hybrid).

 

[Whitton Race]

Thank you for the comments everyone - it seems as though mpg will be very reasonable on the motorway even if how this works is a bit less clear (and not so important as the outcome), so that is a good thing.  I did fear that the mpg on the motorway would be just like a regular petrol car.

With regards to the performance on the motorway - my local dealer runs a fleet or Prii (is that the correct plural for more than one Prius?) on daily rental so I think I will arrange one for a few days.  I am happy to pay for that as it seems more honest.  This will also allow me to properly set the car up for personal 'fit' and get the best comfort that I can as when I did the test drive some aspects did seem a bit 'wrong' - arm rest / reach to the gear selector.  If I can't get the 'fit' right it would be the biggest thing as we can all learn to make adjustments for performance - I'd rather have a suit that fits than a Versace that I trip over.

I have to ignore the person I saw this evening on my drive home up the M3 - sitting blissfully unaware and no doubt overly smug in his hybrid (Auris touring) at 56 mph on an otherwise clear road with everyone else doing 70 or thereabouts.  That was causing chaos for everyone behind him and is just as dangerous as the more common driving too fast and too close.  This driver certainly did not do the image of hybrid any favours.

Because of other commitments, and this is the early stages of looking at the next vehicle, I will be happy if it is not until next month that I can arrange the longer access ot a car from the hire fleet to get the right one.

[Anthony Poli]

That's the best way, hybrids aren't for everyone and if you can avoid taking a gamble even better.

Like others have said, driving style will influence your results.

Just let us know how it goes.

[YarisHybrid2016]

56 MPH on a motorway (limit 70 MPH) isn't dangerous - the other drivers should be looking ahead and planning better! He was probably driving to maximize fuel economy at that speed - I found around 57 MPH to be the sweet spot in the Yaris.

What irks me more is being in the outside lane of a dual-carriageway doing 70 MPH, and being flashed to move over by the car behind - I can't legally go any faster, and neither can they. I ignore them (no - I don't sit in the outside lane - I'm definitely overtaking other traffic or moved over because of a road junction - some of them are lethal and so I move into the outside lane regardless while driving past them).