Yaris Plugin?

[Peter S]

My wife just saw the new advert for the Yaris which showed it in the city next to a plugin point. Have they produced a plugin version or is the advert misleading?

[FROSTYBALLS]

The only Toyota hybrid plug-in is the Prius Plug-in.

The advert actually states "Hybrid technology. No plug-in", so it isn't misleading

[Peter S]

Yes watched to add myself and as you said No Plugin. BUT for goodness sake Toyota, get on the train before it's too late. The add seemed to say that not plugging in was a virtue. The Yaris has virtually no electric range that would be useful in a city, it can't be used on electric all the time with out seriously holding up traffic. Don't get me wrong I love the Yaris it drives well and is fairly economical BUT my replacement car will not be a Toyota as all electric cars are much cheaper to run and the new Zoe and Leaf now have a 150 + miles range which stopped me getting a Leaf in the first place. Also the day WILL come when ICE cars, not just diesel cars are banned from entering cities, in fact my local city Lancaster has plans to have a Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle zone in the city. Back in Oct 2016 the final version of the Highways and Transport Master Plan for Lancashire was published with a pathway to a future where ULEV zones were required to reduce air pollution.

[YarisHybrid2016]

I think the current marketing is because people aren't ready yet for pure electric cars, whilst at the same time thinking hybrids also need plugging in, so they're trying to make it clear that isn't the case.

Twice now I have needed to explain to my friend that the car is petrol/electric like a train, and doesn't need plugging in. I think it is a common misconception.

When I first looked at hybrids, the sales guy had a poor understanding of how it really worked, too. I spent a week researching it. When I established how it really worked, I went back with wallet in hand! 

[FROSTYBALLS]

There was speculation in 2016 that Toyota may replace their current petrol/electric hybrid drivetrains with plug in hybrid drivetrains.

As far as I'm aware Clean Air Zones will be introduced in Birmingham, Derby, Leeds, London, Nottingham and Southampton by 2020, and an ULEV zone only for London.

[Peter S]

12 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I think the current marketing is because people aren't ready yet for pure electric cars, whilst at the same time thinking hybrids also need plugging in, so they're trying to make it clear that isn't the case.

Twice now I have needed to explain to my friend that the car is petrol/electric like a train, and doesn't need plugging in. I think it is a common misconception.

When I first looked at hybrids, the sales guy had a poor understanding of how it really worked, too. I spent a week researching it. When I established how it really worked, I went back with wallet in hand! 

If we waited til people were "ready" for all electric cars then they would never happen. At present there is only one major car manufacturer that advertises an all electric car and that is Nisan, and you don't see many of their adverts on the box. I wish my Yaris DID need plugging in so it had a real usable all electric range instead of the excuse for a traction Battery that it has. Trying to use all electric on get away from a standing start is painful and only useful in a car park. Trying to pull away from traffic lights using just the Battery is so slow as to be annoying at best and dangerous at worst.

[YarisHybrid2016]

I've got used to it being slow from lights if trying to use Battery only. I use heavy town traffic as an excuse to do it. It doesn't bother me that much to be honest. When you look at it, it isn't even that slow, really. I can comfortably catch up the car ahead on electric only in 30 limits.

As long as people keep buying huge diesel cars because they think they're F1 drivers, then pure electric cars will have an image problem ("slow", and range limited).

Tesla solved the two big "problems" - range and performance. Shame about the price tag.

I definitely think the Toyota hybrids could have larger batteries with little negative consequences. I understand they are concerned with space, but the benefits of a larger Battery outweigh it (that is not to say they are not adequate as they are).

I agree that the market needs to produce pure EVs ("build it and they will come"), but for now people are too attached to performance.

I'd buy a pure EV Yaris if they can get 250 miles out of it in normal driving.

[Mike J.]

On 13/05/2017 at 0:01 PM, Peter S said:

Trying to use all electric on get away from a standing start is painful and only useful in a car park. Trying to pull away from traffic lights using just the battery is so slow as to be annoying at best and dangerous at worst.

I find EV mode is just about OK in traffic, as you can go beyond the midpoint of the ECO sector before the engine cuts in.

[Mike J.]

On 12/05/2017 at 10:51 AM, Peter S said:

Yes watched to add myself and as you said No Plugin. BUT for goodness sake Toyota, get on the train before it's too late. The add seemed to say that not plugging in was a virtue. The Yaris has virtually no electric range that would be useful in a city, it can't be used on electric all the time with out seriously holding up traffic. Don't get me wrong I love the Yaris it drives well and is fairly economical BUT my replacement car will not be a Toyota as all electric cars are much cheaper to run and the new Zoe and Leaf now have a 150 + miles range which stopped me getting a Leaf in the first place.

The 41kWh Zoe can easily do 120 miles (in winter), but it may not be as cheap as you think. Most of them are bought with a leased Battery at a cost of around 8p/mile !!!! As my Yaris Hybrid costs about 10p/mile, the Zoe's electricity cost must be less than 8p/kWh - assuming 4miles/kWh. Note that I only got 2.8miles/kWh when I test drove a Zoe!!

The only upside for the Zoe (over the Yaris Hybrid) that I can see is the ability to pre-heat (or cool) the interior before starting off.

[Anthony Poli]

22 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

I find EV mode is just about OK in traffic, as you can go beyond the midpoint of the ECO sector before the engine cuts in.

On a fairly flat road with a 40 mph limit, with the engine only used to set off from the lights to 40. I have managed to travel for about 5 miles before the Battery was fully discharged . 

[Mike J.]

17 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

On a fairly flat road with a 40 mph limit, with the engine only used to set off from the lights to 40. I have managed to travel for about 5 miles before the battery was fully discharged . 

Hi, both the Yaris and Auris Hybrid manuals say:

"In EV drive mode, it is possible to drive up to about 2 km (1.3 miles) if driving
at a speed of about 45 km/h (28 mph) or less."

This is about what I get (1 mile for ease of maths) - cruise control at 30 mph.

[Anthony Poli]

One of my regular journey's of 14 miles, unto 35% of that is done in EV ( data gathered using hybrid assistant). This is another way to show how much of a difference  the EV part can make.

[YarisHybrid2016]

1 hour ago, Anthony Poli said:

On a fairly flat road with a 40 mph limit, with the engine only used to set off from the lights to 40. I have managed to travel for about 5 miles before the battery was fully discharged . 

I just checked a map here - I have been able to achieve Battery only operation at 40 MPH for 1.7 miles. By the end of the segment though the Battery is close to being flat and the ICE starting. That includes Battery only acceleration from ~30 MPH up to 40 (the junction is such it is possible to time it and not need to stop).

The battery charge state at the beginning is 6 or 7 bars.

[Anthony Poli]

1 minute ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I just checked a map here - I have been able to achieve battery only operation at 40 MPH for 1.7 miles. By the end of the segment though the battery is close to being flat and the ICE starting.

The battery charge state at the beginning is 6 or 7 bars.

Maybe I should clarify things, I was using the ICE to build up to 40 and then running on EV. Also recovering as much energy from coasting and regain braking. 

So some might call that cheating, but I don't, as the obd data can't lie. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

40 MPH is an interesting speed - it's possible to drive at 40 with the ICE running and get 80+ MPG (instantaneous). If you can drive long enough on a flat road, eventually it enters EV mode without even lifting off (the point this occurs at actually "rises" as the HV Battery charge increases).

I've found the instantaneous reading to be a good indicator of HV Battery state without having the MFD on.

[Anthony Poli]

I have seen the same with the instantaneous figure while traveling at 50 (46-47 OBD). but not managed to maintain it for long. I love a challenge 

[YarisHybrid2016]

41 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

I have seen the same with the instantaneous figure while traveling at 50 (46-47 OBD). but not managed to maintain it for long. I love a challenge 

It depends very much on the road, and wind! Sheesh!! It's the only way I can tell it is windy - the fuel consumption is worse.

[Anthony Poli]

4 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

It depends very much on the road, and wind! Sheesh!! It's the only way I can tell it is windy - the fuel consumption is worse.

Also depends on the drivers in front you, if they can't keep a constant speed you have no chance 

[YarisHybrid2016]

Ugh - so annoying!!!

[Anthony Poli]

Especially when you have got to 80mpg and then it starts falling.

[Peter S]

On 12/05/2017 at 11:22 PM, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I think the current marketing is because people aren't ready yet for pure electric cars, whilst at the same time thinking hybrids also need plugging in, so they're trying to make it clear that isn't the case.

People weren't ready for the first petrol cars, when asked abut them they probably said they just wanted a faster horse! With the announcement from Volvo that from 2020 they will no longer be developing diesel engines but concentrating on hybrid and all electric propulsion, the day of the ICE is coming to an end. Volvo's first EV is due out in 2019.

[Peter S]

16 hours ago, Anthony Poli said:

One of my regular journey's of 14 miles, unto 35% of that is done in EV ( data gathered using hybrid assistant). This is another way to show how much of a difference  the EV part can make.

What is "hybrid assistant"?

[Anthony Poli]

Hybrid assistant and hybrid reporter are apps for android devices, you also need a OBD link (wifi, bluetooth or usb). It will collect data from the car, that you can email or send it to your computer.

[Mike J.]

I have just been doing some maths and using Hybrid Assistant to work out what is happening in the Yaris.

 

The Yaris has 20 NIMH packs, each pack is 7.2V 6.5Ah. Thus we have 144V (20 x 7.2) in the 0.936kWh pack (6.5 x 144). If this was all available, the Yaris could easily do 5 miles at 30 mph in EV mode - but it doesn't (as mentioned by Toyota in the manual)!

Using the Hybrid Assistant Battery check it shows that the targeted maximum charge seems to be 60% full and the lowest charge allowed is 40%. Thus only 1/5th of 0.936kWh is available in EV mode - giving around 1 mile at 30mph.

BTW, my Battery test showed only 6.2Ah and not 6.5 - what is yours .... ?

What is interesting is that you could probably fit a 2kWh Lithium Ion Battery in the same place as the NIMH (approx twice the energy density). This should give around 10 miles of gentle EV driving. With the ability to home charge (from empty to full in an hour!) we could also get pre-conditioning for those winter mornings - the only real bonus of a full EV (Renault Zoe) over the Yaris.

[Peter S]

The trouble with LiOn batteries is that you will also need a Battery management system to balance the individual cells or an imbalance will lead to failure of the whole Battery pack by one group of paralleled cells falling below 3 volts or going over 4.2 volts. A Battery swap is not impossible but a whole load of other components will be required also.