Check Hybrid System

[Beekeeper D]

On 12/28/2019 at 10:22 PM, Swerve74 said:

I had this dreaded message about 3 days ago hybrid system fault. I took the back seat out removed the plastic cover and hoovered the fan interior. I also  put a screwdriver in and-pulled lots and lots of black hairy dust etc. We also cleaned the fan blades. I done 200 miles before the fault appeared again I have cleared it again with my universal OBD2 box. I've also this time sprayed the fan with some WD-40 I'm hoping that this will help a little bit lubrication I'll keep you posted. 

Doesn’t the fault code that you cleared indicate whether the problem is with the inverter, Battery, cabling or whatever?

[Devon Aygo]

What is the code ?

[Swerve74]

Well here's an update. Drove the car for 590 miles before the dreaded message came back. Rest using OBD2 universal tool. This tool will not give me any fault codes on the hybrid system. Managed 55 miles before it gave same message. 

I reset it again and took for a drive today. 10 miles only before fault came back. It seems that it happened when the fan kicked in on the hybrid cooling circuit. Had back seat out so could see when the fan kicked in. I've left the fault on the dashboard and will reluctantly ring Toyota dealer tomorrow to see what they have to say. I'm thinking it's the fan that could be faulty but reluctant to spend on another without knowing if this is at fault. Any ideas would be appreciated. 

[Gerg]

The Battery fan has four wires connecting to it, so it is probably speed sensed.  

Did you try re-seating the connector to the fan?  I imagine you did.  

The secondhand fans seem a reasonable price on eBay when I just looked. 

But without the error code this is just too much guesswork.

If a club member with Toyota Techstream lived nearby then he could pull off the error codes and you might save on the dealer charge for this, although on a Sunday night this is a 'big ask'! 

It does sound like a trip to the dealer is the next step, unless you've got the time to buy an eBay Techstream cable (£15?) and get it working on a windows laptop (that you already have).

[Swerve74]

1 hour ago, Gerg said:

The battery fan has four wires connecting to it, so it is probably speed sensed.  

Did you try re-seating the connector to the fan?  I imagine you did.  

The secondhand fans seem a reasonable price on eBay when I just looked. 

But without the error code this is just too much guesswork.

If a club member with Toyota Techstream lived nearby then he could pull off the error codes and you might save on the dealer charge for this, although on a Sunday night this is a 'big ask'! 

It does sound like a trip to the dealer is the next step, unless you've got the time to buy an eBay Techstream cable (£15?) and get it working on a windows laptop (that you already have).

Thanks Greg. Something for future reference. Does the software come with the cable. Thanks again for your reply. Also can you recommend a cable on eBay as there's a lot to choose from. I would be using it with windows 10. If possible. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Swerve74
Added a question.

[Gerg]

12 hours ago, Swerve74 said:

Does the software come with the cable

Yes, it does.

I have no familiarity with what's on the market at the moment as there are so many sellers and so many copies of copies, but here's one I've randomly chosen as an example:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16pin-Mini-VCI-Toyota-Lexus-TechStream-OBD2-Diagnostic-Interface-Scanner-v14/112063076459?epid=714481939&hash=item1a177ad86b:g:Vw0AAOSwqfNXj555

Although I notice that the seller above is from the UK.

The Techstream software that is supplied will have been nobbled so that a password/sign-on is no longer required.  This Techstream would normally run on a dealer-owned, Panasonic ruggedized PC, so some additional (supplied) software also needs to be loaded onto your regular PC. This is to emulate the dealer hardware setup from the Techstream's perspective.

It was originally designed to run on Windows XP, but later versions don't seem to have this requirement at all.  Initial installation can be a bit of a pain (but maybe this is no longer the case) but once it's done, that's it, you have an extensive range of diagnostic options.  I have not had to install it on a Windows 10 PC yet - I've put it on an ancient, small, XP laptop that I had spare, but others can probably advise with Win 10 suggestions, hopefully.

Just being able to turn off the continuous reverse-warning beep and the seat belt alarms (e.g. for when you have a heavy bag on the passenger seat) is arguably almost worth the cost alone.

Every time you start your installed Techstream package up, you then select your car model from a list - later versions for sale will have a more up-to-date list of cars available, but this will not be a problem with a car from 2013.

HTH.

[Saxmaniac]

Look at Prius Chat forum it's packed full of posts from US owners who diagnose and repair their own. Auris is similar to 3rd Gen Prius, you can post questions and there's very knowledgeable people over there to help. I've haunted it for some time before buying as I wanted to understand how it works 

[Swerve74]

Just been reading on a Prius forum regarding the hybrid system cooling fan. I'm wondering if there could be a blocked air pipe. My fan when it's running is blowing air back into the cabin.is there an air outlet under the rear wheel shroud. Any help appreciated.  

[Gerg]

I have never seen a detailed description or picture of where the hybrid Battery exhaust leaves the car, if I had I would have saved it or remembered it, but there are currently two or three posters on this forum who work for Toyota dealerships or have access to plenty of Toyota documentation.  Hopefully they might reply to this post?  But I would think that you are right about the exit being under a wheel shroud or similar.

It does sound like your close to getting to the bottom of this problem.  Out of interest, how are you judging if the air is going in to the vent or out of it?  If I had to do this I would probably use a piece of paper if the air flow was very light.

In case you hadn't already seen it, there is an android phone/tablet app-based monitoring tool that would likely help with this problem, but you need a OBD2  ELM327 adaptor similar to this one to get it to work:-  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Torque-Pro-Elm-327-Bluetooth/dp/B01AC7I7BO/ref=pd_sbs_107_img_0/258-4330738-9698635?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01AC7I7BO&pd_rd_r=172fa0da-c909-448d-8f00-0fcf4852f8ed&pd_rd_w=TRq2o&pd_rd_wg=78GTh&pf_rd_p=e44592b5-e56d-44c2-a4f9-dbdc09b29395&pf_rd_r=6RK5XCTRXJCH1ZPBQR3V&psc=1&refRID=6RK5XCTRXJCH1ZPBQR3V 

 You can then download/use Hybrid Assistant app, which is free.  It is excellent and dead easy to operate!

http://hybridassistant.blogspot.com/p/about.html

Two features it has that are of relevance to this problem: it shows you the current hybrid Battery temperature, and it allows you to ramp up and down the cooling fan that you've had problems with.  All done from your phone.  On it's fastest speed the Battery fan is quite obvious when the car is stationary, by the way, so if the battery was overheating then I would expect the car to have put the fan on full to try to deal with this.

There are loads and loads of OBD2 dongles for sale on Amazon and eBay, some of them work better than others with Hybrid Assistant, but for the purposes of this problem that's not such an issue, the differences are often about speed of updating.  If you happen to know someone who's got one of these dongles (they work on all modern cars not just hybrid Toyotas - they are becoming quite common), then there is a reasonable chance that with the Hybrid Assistant it will do the above - making the fault finding a bit easier, and little or no money spent.

HTH.

[Gerg]

Just in case someone with an Auris gen2 was looking to remove their rear seat to get access to the Battery cooling fan, here are some pictures that show what is underneath the seat.  There don't seem to be many photos available of this.  Later gen 2 Aurises have a simple filter built in the fan ducting, so cleaning the filter may be possible with the seat trims left in place, I don't know!  The seat base is held with just two, wire, 'U' shaped clips that sit in plastic 'receivers'.

The seat base rigidity is largely due to its internal wire/steel framework set inside the seat foam.  To lift this off, I found it easiest to get your fingers as close as possible to one of the wire clips shown in the first picture, by sliding them under the seat from the front edge - the clips align with the centre of where your bum goes on the l/h and r/h cushions.  That way, when you give the seat a sharp upward tug, your efforts aren't absorbed by the seat frame flexing, which can otherwise be a little disturbing to witness, especially when the seat defies your efforts to lift it.

The 'receiver for the seat clip is in the second picture.

 

There are some other small clips (5 pence coin size) at the bottom of the vertical trim pieces, these just 'snap' out without much effort.

The last picture is simply to show the Battery and Battery isolator switch (orange, r/h side of picture) at the opposite side of the car to the fan.  There is no need to remove all these covers to just access the battery fan.

 

[MuntazR]

P0A80 I have this code on my car Toyota auris.

[Nielsvillum]

Hey ..

I have an Auris 2011 .  Like Yahweh We had after a smal crash 😞 , caused by my daughter 
A software Update by the local Toyta Dealer .. Wish We had not ..

After this the check hybrid system lights up , and i Have heard this from my dealer .

1. It was the main switch that caused it .

After this We had No problem for some days ...

Then 

2 . The fan to inverter was filled with dirt .

After this No problem for 2 hours ..

3 .  Back at the dealer No explaining ! 
 

After this No problem for 1 Day 

4 . This time they say it is the Hybrid Battery ... Price 20.000 Dkr 

After this No problem 

Then a few days later again problem ..

 

Try a New dealer .. They never heard of any problems with hybrid batteri ..

They check the car and again " it is the main switch " 

Again No problems for a week or so ..

Then We are back ..

Two mechanics and Consulting Toyta Dk .. it is the hybrid batteri . 
 

Fault was resetted and now after more than 2 months it appears again ..

What do you guys Think ...

I allready changed the 12V batteri because some Said it could be the cause ..

I asked the dealer if We change the hybrid batteri ( 20.000) and the fault returns , What Then .. 

Then it is a New error and not the Battery . WTF 😞 

I

 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Nielsvillum said:

Hey ..

I have an Auris 2011 .  Like Yahweh We had after a smal crash 😞 , caused by my daughter 
A software Update by the local Toyta Dealer .. Wish We had not ..

After this the check hybrid system lights up , and i Have heard this from my dealer .

1. It was the main switch that caused it .

After this We had No problem for some days ...

Then 

2 . The fan to inverter was filled with dirt .

After this No problem for 2 hours ..

3 .  Back at the dealer No explaining ! 
 

After this No problem for 1 Day 

4 . This time they say it is the Hybrid battery ... Price 20.000 Dkr 

After this No problem 

Then a few days later again problem ..

 

Try a New dealer .. They never heard of any problems with hybrid batteri ..

They check the car and again " it is the main switch " 

Again No problems for a week or so ..

Then We are back ..

Two mechanics and Consulting Toyta Dk .. it is the hybrid batteri . 
 

Fault was resetted and now after more than 2 months it appears again ..

What do you guys Think ...

I allready changed the 12V batteri because some Said it could be the cause ..

I asked the dealer if We change the hybrid batteri ( 20.000) and the fault returns , What Then .. 

Then it is a New error and not the battery . WTF 😞 

I

 

Well it seems like no one actually has found the reason why the main switch is going bad. Because it happens after a crash it might be something wrong with inverter or high voltage cables not the Battery itself.. My suggestion only is to change the dealer (garage) not parts before they are sure 100% what causes it. If not then insurance to pay get it scrapped and buy another car. 

[Derek.w]

I wood expect the electrics High voltage and 12 volts to automatially disconnect in a crash.

Its to stop motor catching fire!!.

[Saxmaniac]

When the say the "main switch" what are they referring to? Main Battery relays?  The dealers appear to be clueless regards diagnostics and just resetting codes without attempting to find the fault. You need the actual codes to narrow down the area of the fault. If the accident was more than just cosmetic, did damage come near any electrical components? HV will open main relays for a load of reasons, eg insulation fault to ground if something was damaged. Code could indicate this so technician would know what area to start looking 

[Will GX13]

Hiya,

Also posted this on another thread before i found this one, sorry.

Just happened to me on a local road, about 30mph, slightly up hill, loss of power was not noticeable, steering was fine, breaks definitely felt odd, as after 10 years with this car i got used to regenerative breaking assisting. Felt safe enough to continue to my destination, so took it easy and carried on for another 10miles. Parked, turned the car off, left it for few minutes, tried, all warnings asa per photo back on, except for traction control.

Car was always serviced at the main dealer, last service three months ago and hybrid health check done and passed. Waiting for main dealer to open the shop and will see if they can either advise what to do or take a look. 

Bit worried that main dealer may refuse to honour the 10 year warranty ( as car is over 100k now) and this is going to turn out v expensive. 

Anyone any ideas? I've skimmed through this forum, would be happy if this was something to do with 12v Battery. car is used daily, about 300 miles a week.

PS.

The only thing I've noticed recently, say few weeks, the transition between Battery traction and engine kicking in became noticeable- until that point it has always been silky smooth.

[TonyHSD]

38 minutes ago, Will GX13 said:

Hiya,

Also posted this on another thread before i found this one, sorry.

Just happened to me on a local road, about 30mph, slightly up hill, loss of power was not noticeable, steering was fine, breaks definitely felt odd, as after 10 years with this car i got used to regenerative breaking assisting. Felt safe enough to continue to my destination, so took it easy and carried on for another 10miles. Parked, turned the car off, left it for few minutes, tried, all warnings asa per photo back on, except for traction control.

Car was always serviced at the main dealer, last service three months ago and hybrid health check done and passed. Waiting for main dealer to open the shop and will see if they can either advise what to do or take a look. 

Bit worried that main dealer may refuse to honour the 10 year warranty ( as car is over 100k now) and this is going to turn out v expensive. 

Anyone any ideas? I've skimmed through this forum, would be happy if this was something to do with 12v battery. car is used daily, about 300 miles a week.

PS.

The only thing I've noticed recently, say few weeks, the transition between battery traction and engine kicking in became noticeable- until that point it has always been silky smooth.

Hi, 

If the brakes feel odd and no regenerative braking it’s likely to be from faulty speed sensor. If brakes are ok and you have hybrid system check can also be a water pump 1 for the inverter or Battery cooling fan malfunction. Diagnostic it’s the first thing to do and take it from there. For the smooth transition between electric and petrol very much depends on fuel quality and types. With high quality petrol top tier or less ethanol e5 99 the engine will be smoother and quieter, also more responsive and efficient. Check the codes and see what’s the reason for the system check 

Good luck 

[Will GX13]

Thanks Tony. Trying to book it in with my local Toyota garage, we'll see. 

[Will GX13]

Out of curiosity, as not much to lose anyway, I've disconnected the 12V Battery in the boot and left it for 5 minutes and reconnected. turned the car on, all faults cleared, back to normal. Not had a chance to drive yet, maybe later, but so far looks fine. 

 

[TonyHSD]

21 minutes ago, Will GX13 said:

Out of curiosity, as not much to lose anyway, I've disconnected the 12V battery in the boot and left it for 5 minutes and reconnected. turned the car on, all faults cleared, back to normal. Not had a chance to drive yet, maybe later, but so far looks fine. 

 

If you have an issue with speed sensor as I am suspicious  the problem won’t happen again until you start driving, and even so it may need some more time or higher speed to reappear again.
This with disconnecting the Battery wasn’t a good idea as some fault codes might not be stored into the ecu and  in case it’s something on the hybrid Battery or inverter the garage who will check the car for you will run a diagnostic or Battery health check again and the car will fail and they will make you drive for another 4-500miles before they can run another health check. If you are about diy and would like to run diagnostic yourself you can buy a obd 2 adapter like Carista for example and run your own checks with app on your phone . You can also check hybrid battery too. Carista requires a subscription but they offer one month free for new customers. 
CARISTA OBD2 bluetooth Scanner and App for your VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda, Nissan, Infiniti, Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Mini https://amzn.eu/d/4xfUYzG

And meanwhile you can have look in these posts they might have some interesting information to you. 

If not a speed sensor in your case and if turns to be the water pump in the inverter then it’s not recommended to drive the car at all as the inverter can fry itself and then will be expensive. Better run a diagnostic before start driving or immediately after the warning come up again, just to be on the safe side. 👍

[Will GX13]

Thanks Tony.

I have a short drive home today, about 15 miles and bit of motorway maybe so we'll see.

Car was always serviced by toyota dealer and had everything it needed done, including yearly hybrid system checks, so if it throws another tantrum i'll book it in, and hopefully it will be covered under the extended warranty. 

Cheers 

[AisinW]

Inverter issues is actually on going problems in all gen 3 hybrid with 1.8L engines in Prius, Auris, etc.  USA have very strick costumer protection system and Toyota was forced to do recall on inverter problems. However, it is also VIN specific batch. Not all are in recalls list.   

 https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RCMN-18V684-8352.pdf 

Unfortunately, European only have option by getting relax warranty, 10 years/100k miles coverage which is the time that the inverter most likely still fine.  The recalls is only on 2009-2014 production time. post September 2014 cars are not included on the recalls.  Either it has updated software and hardware revision or toyota has not found any urgency to do recalls on newer model.  There are many changes on post Sept 2014 hgen 3 ybrid with 2ZR-FXE engines including revised piston and piston rings to reduced blowby and oil consumption,. 

[Will GX13]

Hi,

Been a while, thought I'll update my case. Check Hybrid System appeared again, so booked the car for a check-up at local Toyota garage and been informed that the car needs new traction Battery...

After few days of waiting i was informed that it will be replaced under warranty, so a huge relief. Seems servicing with main dealer pays off sometimes. Battery is on order, should arrive within two weeks, so that's when it will be installed. 

 

Happy days, could have been much worse or/ and costly..

 

cheers,

 

[Catlover]

 

8 minutes ago, Will GX13 said:

Hi,

Been a while, thought I'll update my case. Check Hybrid System appeared again, so booked the car for a check-up at local Toyota garage and been informed that the car needs new traction battery...         After few days of waiting i was informed that it will be replaced under warranty, so a huge relief. Seems servicing with main dealer pays off sometimes. Battery is on order, should arrive within two weeks, so that's when it will be installed.

 

10 year old car getting a new hybrid Battery foc, great news. A good dealer working for you - nice one.

[Will GX13]

Yeah, car is getting  a nice present for its tenth birthday, very happy planets aligned in my favour...