Toyota TownAce Noah MOT failure advice

[CamperMannAdventures]

So I have an issue here. I am not a Car guy in anyway so a lot of this is all new to me and I can only go with what I am being told.

Jap Import
Toyota 
TownAce Noah (LiteAce Noah)
1997

I have failed my 2nd MOT test now. after the first failure I was told by the garage (who I have given up all faith in now) to have my CAT (Catalytic Converter) replaced, so after some tooing and frowing I got a new CAT and got it fitted (its a JAP import). so I take it back to the garage for a new MOT and the readings have come back higher than they were with test, even tho the van has 2 CAT's on it now (WTF). 

Here are the test readings from the second MOT. when they did the MOT test the van would have been sitting in the car park for 4 days without being moved so everything was very netural and not warm

First Test
CO - Max 0.30% = 0.50% ---FAIL
HC - Max 200ppm = 26ppm ---PASS
Lambda - 0.97-1.03 = 1.06 ---FAIL

Second Test
CO - Max 0.30% = 0.44% ---FAIL
HC - Max 200ppm = 28ppm ---PASS
Lambda - 0.97-1.03 = 1.07 ---FAIL

Natural Idle Test
CO - Max 0.50% = 0.20% ---PASS

So I am looking for some advice as I dont know where to go now, I have had some mixed things said as follows

It needs a long drive (long Rev) to heat the CAT up
It needs to have diagnostics done to see where the problem is
Could be a leak in the exhaust

So Im looking for a bit of insight as to which route I should follow, now I dont have MOT so I cannot do a long drive to heat up the CAT.

Please can someone shed some light on what they would do.

[mickburkesnr]

Was it just the emissions that it failed on?

Thing is with emissions there are a number of things that could be wrong. You're quite right in saying there might be a leak in the exhaust. However I'd have thought that this would be picked up in a visual inspection.

Has the van been serviced recently? An oil/air filter change could do it the world of good, maybe even some Redex to clean the injectors. That said, 4,000 rpm on a dual carriageway would also do this - known as an "Italian Tune". 

Do you have an engine warning light at all? Might be possible that you do, and that you haven't noticed because the light bulb isn't there or blown. Highly unlikely but it's been known to happen. It might lead you to consider that the O2/Lambda sensor is kaput and needs to be replaced.

I would go to another MOT centre (don't go for KwikFit or places like that). Don't say anything about what the van failed on before. Let them do their thing and see what they say.

That's all I can really think of, other than having the van tested when the engine is warm and up to temperature, not when cold.

[CamperMannAdventures]

Hi

Yea just emissions (and a few light bulbs)

The new CAT was put on by someone I trust who is a mechanic and I would have assumed if he saw an issue he would have raised it with me to get it replaces (he is good like that)

I have not got any engine lights on or anything like that and it drives really well. I believe it had a service about 6 months back but I will check again, I know it could do with some oil as it is supposed to be topped up every 1000 miles and it has done just a little over that now.

I might just have to bite the bullet and find someone who can do the MOT quickish (like you say not a big super brand)

Cheers tho, I might have to book it in for Sat morning and give it a good REVing while I drive there.

[RUToyota]

I agree with Mick's general comments...you could get a code read done...it may just give you an indication of what might be amiss.

Sadly, it might turn out that the Cat replacement was a little premature and unnecessary...but time will tell.

What mileage has the vehicle done.?

 

 

Neil

[CamperMannAdventures]

The van has done about 252000 KM

I think im going to get another MOT by someone else, someone more independent. There is a few local places that are performance testers but they seem to know there stuff

[mickburkesnr]

Was the first MOT a "high street" test station? Like KwikFit?

If it's only the emissions, and it doesn't sound like you're that sure of when the last service was done, I'd get all of that done first. New oil, new oil filter, new air filter, new spark plugs (if it's petrol, I'm assuming it is). Then give it some redex, drive it around for a good bit using high revs on dual carriageways. You're hoping to clean the engine and injectors that way.

And 100% get the engine codes read. I think you'll find if you go to a local Toyota dealership they'll do the test for you free of charge. I've never needed to do it, but when I had issues with my old Honda the Honda people did it for free for me. 

I know generally MOT's are subject to opinion, but I don't know whether this is the same with emissions. My Corolla nearly failed the emissions last time because the car was sat cold for a while. Once it warmed up it was fine. But the tester gave the car a chance. I wonder whether your tester - on both occasions - didn't give it a chance to warm up?

[CamperMannAdventures]

Hi Yea it was a high street one (Concord Auto Centre)

I spoke with someone at a performance garage yesterday and he said the CAT needs to get HOT for it to be effective and by the looks of the test the car was just moved from the car park to the ramps so it hardly even had a chance to get warm.

It is a petrol automatic which is a little harder to get the revs up in my opinion.

Im going to have a look at the mileage when the last service was done but I think it was only about 6 months back (we haven't had the van long as we bought it second hand from Wicked Campers)

[mickburkesnr]

Yeah that makes complete sense.

As for the revs, slip it in to 3 and drive it. It won't go up in to 4th then.

[CamperMannAdventures]

Sooo the SAGA continues

I have taken it to a more specialist place and they have failed the MOT "AGAIN" but with a lot more outcome and insight.

Emissions

 - Exhaust Leaks (Looks like the exhaust  has a leak on one of the connections, so they are going to look and sort this.)

But they have also failed it with the following

 - Reg plate is damaged (this was an advisory at the other idiots)

 - Brake hose is corroded (this was not even mentioned at the other idiots) - This is proving hard to find as its a JAP import

 - Couple of lights bulbs and a light fitting (needs a fog light installing don't know how it passed the last MOT without one)

 But thanx to everyone's suggestions and comments above. I did put a REDEX bottle in the tank and gave it a 20 mile run and I think this broke in the new CAT as well as there was quite a bit of white smoke at some points when rev-ing really high.

FYI the last service was done about 3000 km ago so everything should have been on board for that

 

[mickburkesnr]

MOT's are down to the opinion of a tester. With emissions it's more or less a case of "Computer says no", whereas brake hose corrosion is subjective. A friend took his Hyundai Accent to KwikFit, they failed it on 10 things (and wanted £550 to fix it all - one being "can't open passenger door from outside, when the car was locked and wasn't equipped with central locking), took it to another garage I knew and they just pointed out a nail in the tyre as an advisory.

There are Japanese import specialists about that you can get the parts from. Something like a brake hose is usually an off the shelf part but you could also get them made up. I know with braided steel brake hoses you can get them made up especially. 

[oldcodger]

Re the MOT testers,  why not use your local councils MOT test center ; they test all your local taxis etc and also accept the general publics.

They can only do the MOT test , they cannot do any repairs or suggest which garage could fix any fault, so you get a totally unbiased test.

On the emissions test, from what I have seen of their machines,  they can run at least two types of test, an auto or a more in depth manual routine and normally ensure the whole system is up to temperature.

It does cost the full whack of £55 , but at least you know , imho, its a fair outcome.

 

[Hybrid-Harry]

Well me I also have a problem I guess this is a little bit same with you. But it goes when I turned on the aircon.