Yaris Hybrid Fuel Economy

[yammie]

 I have to eat humble pie folks regarding my remarks on fuel economy. Most of my trips are under a mile or just over. If I go to my best friends place its all up hill.

 around town its not great as the engine just never gets warm (no gauge to say what temp is). Over the weekend I went up to Durham for a double birthday meal with friends.

The run was just over 100mls and 60% and at legal posted speeds,and A roads and 40% on A1 and sat at an indicated 80 mph. I was amazed at the fuel consumption, it worked out at aprox 68/69 mpg on the way up. Coming back it slightly less as I was into a head wind all the way back.

Onto another slight problem was with the USB, my ipod plays perfectly but every time I come to use it the Battery is flat. So I put all my music on a memory stick (14gb) but it wont play random only on a CD file? Car went into the dealer and they checked out the software and was ok. They advised me to convert all my music to MP3 so that the what the computer is doing now.

[Anthony Poli]

7 hours ago, yammie said:

 I have to eat humble pie folks regarding my remarks on fuel economy. Most of my trips are under a mile or just over. If I go to my best friends place its all up hill.

 around town its not great as the engine just never gets warm (no gauge to say what temp is). Over the weekend I went up to Durham for a double birthday meal with friends.

The run was just over 100mls and 60% and at legal posted speeds,and A roads and 40% on A1 and sat at an indicated 80 mph. I was amazed at the fuel consumption, it worked out at aprox 68/69 mpg on the way up. Coming back it slightly less as I was into a head wind all the way back.

Onto another slight problem was with the USB, my ipod plays perfectly but every time I come to use it the battery is flat. So I put all my music on a memory stick (14gb) but it wont play random only on a CD file? Car went into the dealer and they checked out the software and was ok. They advised me to convert all my music to MP3 so that the what the computer is doing now.

We had a problem with using a iPod, but in our case we had to restart the iPod at random. In the end we resorted to a usb stick.

Short journeys for any car that isn’t all electric are going to give you bad economy, if they aren’t a plugin.

On my run into work it’s 3.5 miles, with 30 & 40 limits and the best I can get is 55+. On the way back I can sometimes get over 70mpg. The only difference is a different route due to traffic.

The engine must get warm enough on the return and also the car hasn’t sat as long as it does overnight.

 

 

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[YarisHybrid2016]

I've found it is time rather than distance that is the killer for economy.

If the car considers itself "cold" and does the warm-up, I can't get better than around 35 MPG until it exits; this seems to take about 5 minutes with OAT around +18 C, and around 3 minutes if OAT above +20 C.

Sometimes it will run on electric during warm-up and MPG will be excellent, showing 70+ (NOT 99.9!), but I have no idea why it is only *sometimes* during warm-up when this happens.

I need to do more testing, but it would *seem* that if I take the slightly longer route out the village, through 30/40 limits to the main road, I get wildly better fuel economy despite it being up-hill than taking the more direct route at 50 MPH (also slightly up-hill, but very slightly more so). In both cases, it's running the ICE. The only thing I can think of is the short down-hill segments of the longer route are actually more than compensating for the fuel burn of going up-hill, even though the overall route is longer. I see 99.9 before I even get to the main road, vs. the shorter distance where I never see 99.9 before the main road, unless it drops into EV mode on the corners.

I need to get scientific and do some more testing. Very interesting result though.

In summary:

* Short route is 50 MPH from the driveway to the main road 2 miles later
* Longer route is 30/40 MPH through the village and around to the main road 2.5 miles later

Uhhh....

[YarisHybrid2016]

It was my imagination! 36 MPG (computer reported) during the warm-up taking the slower road. So, basically it makes no difference if you're doing 30 MPH or 50 MPH - it is pretty consistent during warm-up.

Filled up to full this evening (14.8 L uplifted after 212 miles - 65.2 MPG actual). Computer reported a range available of 424 miles after filling (or 55.1 MPG for a tank of 7.7 gallons or 35 L). At an actual MPG of 65.2, this gives an estimated range of 502 miles.

The 65 MPG value was over short journeys of around 12 miles, with some start/stop town driving and heavy-footed acceleration at places. Also includes extended full-throttle acceleration while hill-climbing for around 1 mile up to 60 MPH (MPG during the hill-climb is somewhere between 30-45 MPG at fairly constant speed of ~62 MPH, keeping it between the last tick mark in ECO and the first white tick mark of POWER).

Regarding hill-climbing - I have found it to be beneficial to get speed on the flat, and climb around 62-63 MPH. If you try and climb at 50 MPH it needs more power to maintain speed (pushing it into the POWER band) thus increasing fuel consumption. On short hills, or where there is an equivalent down-slope to balance things out, it isn't nearly as critical - just use enough power to maintain speed, or letting it decay slightly as you climb, then make the speed up on the down-slope - this seems to be good (the saving on the down-hill can more than offset the additional fuel burn holding speed).

If I wasn't such a "boy racer" , I'm sure this figure can be improved quite significantly. I'll find out after the weekend!

EDIT:

Taking the computer computed range of 424 miles, this equates to the computer working on 6.5 gallons of fuel if the range is computed at 65.2 MPG, or the value actually achieved. This means the computer is NOT counting 1 gallon (or 4.545 L) in its range computation.

Computer reported range of 424 miles is the highest I've seen yet.

[Anthony Poli]

I haven’t managed to break 500 miles on 30 litres yet. 494 is my best so far.

One way to help less the effect of the warm up phase is to leave the Battery almost full from the last drive.

Never did pay attention to my previous non hybrids before, the figures must have been so bad.

 

 

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[YarisHybrid2016]

My previous car was dire!! On short journeys it would only get around 25 MPG.

[Anthony Poli]

By fluke, as I was going into work yesterday morning, I managed 65mpg. Which is the same as the way home in the afternoon.

 

This morning I managed 62 going and 82 on the return journey.

I think I am improving :-)

 

 

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[Anthony Poli]

By fluke, as I was going into work yesterday morning, I managed 65mpg. Which is the same as the way home in the afternoon.

 

This morning I managed 62 going and 82 on the return journey.

I think I am improving :-)

 

 

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I forgot to add each leg of the journey was 3.5-4 miles

 

 

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[bob-the-builder22]

So far after 1k miles in my face-lift hybrid I have got an average of 58mpg displayed which has worked out at 52mpg when using the fill ups. On my journey to work of 22 miles going the slow flow of traffic (50-70mph)  and driving consciously economically I am getting a displayed 62-68mpg for the journey. Whereas the journey home where I am driving quicker (cruise control normally on 77mph and heavier acceleration) I normally get a displayed 50-55mpg. 

On a longish run of 60 miles I achieved 55mpg on the way there and 56mpg on  the way back with  cruise control set to 72mph for 90% of the journey and driving 'normal' the rest of it.

Overall I am not a slow driver and haven't just picked the best or worst journey so hopefully gives people a good feel for the real world mpg!

[Madasafish]

You will achieve worse fuel consumption in hilly country than on the flat as recharging on downhills is limited by Battery capacity so much energy is wasted.

 

When I drove a hybrid round us(150 meters above sea level), it was clear consumption would be dire. If we turn left out of our drive, we climb a one mile long hill rising 70 meters in height in a narrow and twisty road where the top speed is under 30mph. I see 14mpg when cold in a Honda Jazz....

[haelewyn]

In your case, you could try to run it in B gear when going downhill. That should give you a bit more power back. B mode is only useful on bit steep downhill and not on very soft decline cause then it will reduce your speed too much.
But in the end, you will never recover as much on the downhill as what you spend on going uphill. You are right about that;

[Anthony Poli]

You will achieve worse fuel consumption in hilly country than on the flat as recharging on downhills is limited by battery capacity so much energy is wasted.

 

When I drove a hybrid round us(150 meters above sea level), it was clear consumption would be dire. If we turn left out of our drive, we climb a one mile long hill rising 70 meters in height in a narrow and twisty road where the top speed is under 30mph. I see 14mpg when cold in a Honda Jazz....

 

 

Sadly a Honda jazz, is a different type of hybrid to Toyota’s range. From what I have learned about the jazz, the ice never switches off and the electric motor only assists.

Where Toyota’s system can drive on pure electric, pure ice or both together.

So in theory the Toyota would do much better.

 

 

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[YarisHybrid2016]

WOW. Last weekend I did 320 miles (160 miles each way, non-stop motorway/dual-carriageway at 50-60 MPH), having filled up before I left. The fuel gauge was sat at half a tank.

I uplifted 19 L of fuel. Estimated range: 606 miles.

Is this for real???   Based on the fuel gauge, I could have driven 640 miles (though I doubt it).

It definitely likes to cruise long-distance. The fuel economy is good on my typical 12-15 mile trips (better on 30 mile trips), but it seems to like sitting at 50 MPH for a while (maybe 10-15 minutes) then the instantaneous MPG hits 90+ for long periods. Of course, in more typical local type driving where you're slowing for speed limits, roundabouts etc.. it is not possible to do.

[YarisHybrid2016]

On 7/12/2017 at 7:49 AM, haelewyn said:

In your case, you could try to run it in B gear when going downhill. That should give you a bit more power back. B mode is only useful on bit steep downhill and not on very soft decline cause then it will reduce your speed too much.
But in the end, you will never recover as much on the downhill as what you spend on going uphill. You are right about that;

I wouldn't use B mode as it spins the engine to waste energy. You'd be better keeping it in D and regulating the foot brake for max regen (unless of course, the hill is too steep to hold speed like this).

[Mike J.]

7 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I wouldn't use B mode as it spins the engine to waste energy. You'd be better keeping it in D and regulating the foot brake for max regen (unless of course, the hill is too steep to hold speed like this).

Indeed, you only go into B mode during extended downhill drives, specifically when the Battery is full and regen is no longer available to aid the brakes (which might then start to overheat) - this is probably only needed in mountainous areas. B mode is there to deliberately waste energy!

If I am on a longish descent, I slap in cruise control and let the car use regen to limit the speed, rather than the brakes. Note that once the Battery is full, regen stops and the car's speed will increase

 

Given that regen via cruise control can become fierce, does anyone know if the brake lights come on - they do with cars like the electric BMW i3.

[Mike J.]

7 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

It definitely likes to cruise long-distance. The fuel economy is good on my typical 12-15 mile trips (better on 30 mile trips), but it seems to like sitting at 50 MPH for a while (maybe 10-15 minutes) then the instantaneous MPG hits 90+ for long periods.

I noticed this on my long trips, 90+ mpg at speeds of 60 mph (and above) on the straight. Probably had the electric motor assisting with the petrol motor ticking over at it's optimum speed (1300rpm?). Note that the hybrid gearing can allow over 60mph per 1000 rpm, so the engine can be ticking over at 70 mph! That is the beauty of the Toyota Hybrid system and nothing can beat it.

[bob-the-builder22]

While the economy is certainly good at 50-60mph unfortunately it is quite poor at higher speed. I only get 50-55mpg displayed at a 70-75mph steady cruise. It's a shame really. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

13 hours ago, bob-the-builder22 said:

I only get 50-55mpg displayed at a 70-75mph steady cruise. It's a shame really. 

I see similar.

[CPN]

Just did my 6th fill-up (since new in March) and my neck to neck figure this time was my best so far at 54.7 mpg calculated bringing my overall fuelly average to what you see below. This was with a reasonable mix of driving conditions which I've decided was roughly 50/50 (city/motorway) so I would argue is typical for the Yaris Hybrid apart from the fact that our car can hardly be called "run-in" at a total of only 1480 miles so far... This is very similar to what we were getting with our previous Yaris Hybrid also. Which only goes to show that the lab test figures quoted for the Yaris Hybrid in the brochure are completely unachievable in real world conditions.

I also took the opportunity this time to run the tank down as far as I dared until the fuel guage actually indicated "R" on the dot (which was well after the fuel light coming on...) and I only managed to squeeze 31.17 litres into the 36 litre tank which means that roughly 5 litres was still there or roughly 55 miles on "reserve" left; given my overall current average figures (all calculated from neck to neck fill-ups).

Edited July 28, 2017 by CPN
Problem with fuelly: Can't seem to get fuelly to display correctly so sig should be 50.4 mpg UK average

[YarisHybrid2016]

@CPN What kind of speeds were you driving at?

[CPN]

I prefer to drive our hybrid more like a normal car rather than obsessing with fuel consumption too much by using some of the weirder driving techniques associated with hybrids . That being said, the Yaris does tend to engender a more relaxed kind of driving so I'm not out to scream along from one traffic jam to the next either! I also use the cruise control a lot when it is safe to do so. So, on a motorway, I'm usually locked in at an indicated 70 (really more close to 65) and poodling about town and on urban roads, it's normal speeds within whatever speed limit is prevailing but not being a slouch either so that I'm not unnecessarily holding up following drivers in the process. In a word "normal" really! Certainly not slowly... 

[YarisHybrid2016]

I was just curious! :)

I don't do any of the hyper-miling type driving, but I do avoid hard acceleration, drive at 50 MPH rather than 60 MPH on single-carriage A roads (this is the single biggest saving right here), and decelerate a little earlier than normal.

In town is where I'm "slow", accelerating at the maximum while remaining in auto-EV mode (SoC affects whether this is possible, with it being obviously more sluggish if it is low in which case I accelerate just enough to trigger the ICE - it can actually be more economic this way by using the Battery to sustain speed on long stretches at 30-40 MPH and ICE to accelerate).

I also try and use the terrain, too.

I don't think I'm *that* obsessive about it!   When climbing longer hills (especially the long hill on a dual-carriage way) I sometimes drive it like I stole it.  

Overall the length of the journey has a large impact, with local type driving meaning it is harder to get the best economy from it. I'm also finding that over time it takes less power (especially in EV mode) to sustain speed and climb shallow inclines than it did even 5000 miles ago (it has nearly 20k on it now). This all adds to the ability to increase fuel economy.

On two separate journeys this last week I managed probably the best economy I'll get (computer reported 83 MPG over 12 miles), then it rained on the 3rd outing which clearly showed the effect the rain/weather has (I only used the wipers - computer reported 62 MPG).

As always, the only metric that really matters is tank-to-tank, but I don't do that very often.

Trivia: over 12 miles, driving at 50 MPH vs. 60 MPH adds only 2.4 minutes to the journey time. The fuel saving at 50 MPH is worth it (I use around 25% less fuel!), and traffic is inevitably slower than 60 MPH anyway, so it is nearly not worth driving any faster anyway as you'd only catch it up (in fact I usually catch up some 8 miles down the road, and laugh at those who nearly killed themselves to overtake me earlier - I usually end up behind them at the roundabout)!

[bob-the-builder22]

I just completed a 400 mile round trip up north and got a tank to tank average of 59mpg. This was massively helped by the 50mph roadworks on the m1, but when not limited by average speed cameras I was going 72mph cruise control. Overall average speed was around 55mph. Not too bad! 

[CPN]

8 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I was just curious! :)

Aren't we all! 

I don't do any of the hyper-miling type driving, but I do avoid hard acceleration, drive at 50 MPH rather than 60 MPH on single-carriage A roads (this is the single biggest saving right here), and decelerate a little earlier than normal.

Actually, that is something that I've been doing of late also...

I don't think I'm *that* obsessive about it!   When climbing longer hills (especially the long hill on a dual-carriage way) I sometimes drive it like I stole it.  

Me also! 

I'm also finding that over time it takes less power (especially in EV mode) to sustain speed and climb shallow inclines than it did even 5000 miles ago (it has nearly 20k on it now). This all adds to the ability to increase fuel economy.

I think this is our biggest enemy in that our car is probably never going to be well run-in as such because we simply don't do the mileage we used to do these days. The last car was only at 8000 after 2 years...(when we part-ex'd) 

As always, the only metric that really matters is tank-to-tank, but I don't do that very often.

It's just become a habit with me...

Trivia: over 12 miles, driving at 50 MPH vs. 60 MPH adds only 2.4 minutes to the journey time. The fuel saving at 50 MPH is worth it (I use around 25% less fuel!), and traffic is inevitably slower than 60 MPH anyway, so it is nearly not worth driving any faster anyway as you'd only catch it up (in fact I usually catch up some 8 miles down the road, and laugh at those who nearly killed themselves to overtake me earlier - I usually end up behind them at the roundabout)!

ditto! 

 

[Mike J.]

I have just done a 211 mile journey with around 30% at 70 mph and the rest at 60 mph max (dual and single carriageways). Computer showed around 65mpg and brim to brim, with journey mileage via google maps, showed 62 mpg.

Note, car bought secondhand and so it is almost run in at 59000 miles

Also, anecdotal evidence points to the yearly mpg for these cars as 55 - which is what I seem to tend towards over the year.

Something else to consider is that if you buy a car like the Zoe with a leased Battery you pay around 8p a mile for said lease and 2p electricity (cheap rate). My run cost around 8.4p per mile with no range anxiety!