Yaris Hybrid Fuel Economy

[YarisHybrid2016]

Winter/rain definitely adversely affect economy.

Whether it is sunny or not seems to have an effect, too, but might be due to not needing the heater during the day (the glass roof makes the car a greenhouse, even in winter).

In summer, the sun still has an effect, though I wonder if it is because the engine is sat in a heated metal box so doesn't run as much to keep warm as it does at night.

[Mike J.]

On 02/08/2017 at 3:53 PM, Mike J. said:

I have just done a 211 mile journey with around 30% at 70 mph and the rest at 60 mph max (dual and single carriageways). Computer showed around 65mpg and brim to brim, with journey mileage via google maps, showed 62 mpg.

Did a modified re-run of the trip without so much 70mph driving and computer said 68.5 mpg which is probably 65mpg true.

[dcweather]

I would be annoyed if I were Toyota to read What Car magazine's article on best and worst cars for "true" mpg on their "special" rolling road lab tests. They claimed the Yaris Hybrid was 37.3% down on quoted at 49.3mpg. Now I don't manage to get some of the figures quoted on here but I do a lot of short journeys (which I defy any small non electric automatic car to beat!) but I have never managed to get figures that low under any circumstances. My range seems to be about 53 mpg minimum in winter in non-ideal conditions to about 68 mpg on longer mixed journeys. The only time I ever get over 70mpg if i try really hard to. I mean has anyone actually managed to achieve as low as 49 mpg?

https://www.whatcar.com/news/real-mpg-city-cars-and-small-cars/?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=Enews bulletins&utm_content=WCAR Enews Bulletin (01.08.2017)::image1&utm_source=20170801

Dave

[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, dcweather said:

I would be annoyed if I were Toyota to read What Car magazine's article on best and worst cars for "true" mpg on their "special" rolling road lab tests. They claimed the Yaris Hybrid was 37.3% down on quoted at 49.3mpg. Now I don't manage to get some of the figures quoted on here but I do a lot of short journeys (which I defy any small non electric automatic car to beat!) but I have never managed to get figures that low under any circumstances. My range seems to be about 53 mpg minimum in winter in non-ideal conditions to about 68 mpg on longer mixed journeys. The only time I ever get over 70mpg if i try really hard to. I mean has anyone actually managed to achieve as low as 49 mpg?

It seems to me that no-one can test the Toyota hybrids correctly.

WhatCar test on a dyno, and we all know what VW do with dyno testing, strip 4 of them out and the Yaris comes 6th rather than 10th! Note that a true city car is an automatic, so I would imagine that in that case the Yaris comes top! It would also come top in the 0-30mph stakes.

The figures for Which have a 2012 version giving around 120mpg on an urban run, but only 52mpg for a 2014 version.

Autocar had the Yaris Hybrid failing to do a consistant 90mph and complaining  - the engine only has 74hp and needs the electric motor to help out.

Basically, they are ignoring the Battery charge levels when testing, which gives inconsistent results - amateurs!

[YarisHybrid2016]

I'm surprised their reporting is tolerated and they aren't challenged in court over it.

I tried very hard to get very poor MPG a month or two ago when we had strong winds and heavy rain (I drove like a looney - that's all I'm saying) and when I'd finished - 45 MPG average over 12 miles. Things were starting to smell hot, which I didn't like... It's also very hard to drive constantly with a low SoC -- it always finds energy from somewhere to charge the HV Battery (though instantaneous MPG was low 30s much of the time).

I did 30 miles at the weekend - max of 50 MPH but slowing for 30/40 MPH limits. When I reached my destination the computer reported 80 MPG average.

These fools doing these reviews clearly don't drive them. Static test on a workbench isn't a real test by any standard. How they are even getting these very low figures is making my brain hurt - they don't even have air resistance to deal with.

[Mike J.]

Well ..... there seems to be at least one magazine (writer) that understands (and likes) the Toyota Hybrid system. Car magazine has a Prius on long term test and it is getting a good write-up. The guy got over 90mpg on a 120 mile run going at HGV speeds. The new version of the hybrid seems to be a big improvement on our cars - or is it, can we get 90+ mpg on a long journey with our Yaris Hybrids?

[CPN]

From my own experience, not a hope in hell of getting anywhere near 90+ with the Yaris Hybrid. There's a massive difference between the Yaris Hybrid and a Prius. The Yaris is a standard Yaris with a Hybrid power train and Battery thrown into it and not much else by way of thought. The Prius is designed and built from the ground up as a Hybrid and the "world of difference" that that makes to the finished product is glaringly obvious when you compare the Prius to the Yaris Hybrid. Personally, I feel that there is a LOT they could improve by way of the software and Battery in the Yaris but Toyota don't seem to want to bother. After all, the Prius is their flagship hybrid product really... Great shame that the Yaris Hybrid (and Auris Hybrid) doesn't really get the TLC it deserves from its maker...

[Anthony Poli]

They need to up their game as more hybrids from other manufacturers are coming. Being the first won’t keep you in front.

Personally I think they should take a leaf out of Tesla’s book and put the batteries in the floor, that way you can squeeze more batteries in and shorten the length of the high voltage cables.

 

 

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[Mike J.]

I have just completed a 20 mile journey at 50mph max. and got my all time best figure of 83mpg! It is not 90mpg though!

[YarisHybrid2016]

If you want Prius efficiency, it'll have to be a Prius...

I agree though - it could be even better.

It's certainly not dire though, and definitely out of the reach of conventional diesels and petrols for economy, so I'm happy! That of course, ignores the whole way it drives and works.

I've deliberately avoided looking at the new Prius because I think my wallet could bleed to death if I did... I could buy a lot of petrol for what it would cost to change.   The road tax change is definitely working against it, too. "NIL" is hard to beat.

 

[Anthony Poli]

I would like the new plugin but I wouldn’t see the saving for a long time.

I know one thing they where the Yaris lacking, the regen braking is less than my Auris. I drive both and the Yaris has a noticeable amount of brake dust

 

If the regen was s bit more aggressive I’m sure that would improve the mpg a little.

 

 

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[CPN]

Exactly my thoughts too... (about the Yaris Regen) There are a lot of quick software fixes to the Yaris that they could achieve some quick wins with but they don't seem to want to bother. The Yaris Hybrid I purchased this year behaves exactly the same as the one I purchased in 2014 and that shouldn't be the case with today's "computerised" cars. There should be constant improvement going on all the time in the ICU softwares (there is 11 in a Yaris) but the car industry doesn't work like the computer industry (which it should now...).

Edited August 9, 2017 by CPN
ICU = Integrated Control Unit (similar to ECU but less complex)

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, CPN said:

Exactly my thoughts too... (about the Yaris Regen) There are a lot of quick software fixes to the Yaris that they could achieve some quick wins with but they don't seem to want to bother. The Yaris Hybrid I purchased this year behaves exactly the same as the one I purchased in 2014 and that shouldn't be the case with today's "computerised" cars. There should be constant improvement going on all the time in the ICU softwares (there is 11 in a Yaris) but the car industry doesn't work like the computer industry (which it should now...).

I am not sure that there is a regen issue - if I go downhill in cruise control mode, the car is regenerating to the max as the brakes are not in use.

Regarding the software, it is possible that any mods. have to be EU approved (type approval?) as they could change the mpg, etc. - probably very expensive. Then again, how does Tesla get away with these upgrades?

[CPN]

I'm not sure that that was the kind of regen that Anthony was alluding to. I think he was meaning during normal braking, be it gentle or aggressive.

On the Yaris, if you watch the gauges in an app like Hybrid Assistant (which I now use regularly) or even Torque (which I still have but don't use as much) you will see that even in aggressive braking, the mechanical brakes come in far earlier than maybe they should and only ever regenerate a maximum of about 20ish Amps back charging into the HV Battery.

If you consider that it is possible, during aggressive acceleration from a standstill and with the system fully warmed up, to draw power from the main Battery to the tune of in excess of 120 Amps along with the ICE to achieve fairly "quick of the mark" kind of acceleration then the reverse ought to be possible when braking (which would make for much more aggressive regen braking) but that is going to depend on a lot of other factors such as motor/generator cooling, winding strength, Battery charge rate limits, inverter capacity etc etc... Maybe that's the problem? The Yaris Hybrid has been built down to a price that the market will accept for that sector (and therefore some corners have been cut) whereas the Prius has been built up to a spec and the price is secondary because it's meant to be a flagship product? One "Prius factor" above all others stands above the Yaris & Auris Hybrids and that is the HV battery itself. You can pump "juice" back into the Prius's battery far quicker than you can the other two cars I'll bet... (and that, right there, is probably ANY hybrid's potential strength/weakness)

[YarisHybrid2016]

Tesla probably gets away with it because it is an electric vehicle. No emissions*, and no fuel consumption, so all that doesn't apply to it.

* from the "tail pipe", though emissions from electricity generation could be debated all day long.

[YarisHybrid2016]

5 minutes ago, CPN said:

...that is going to depend on a lot of other factors such as motor/generator cooling, winding strength, battery charge rate limits, inverter capacity etc etc... Maybe that's the problem?

I suspect it is the charge rate that is probably the limiting factor, though I don't see why as I thought the Auris/Prius had the same chemistry Battery - just more cells.

I try and get around the mechanical brakes by lifting off and braking earlier.

[CPN]

That's what I thought too but I also suspect a lot of software tweaking has been going on with the new Gen4 Prius. After all, with hybrids, there are two extremes. Toyota's Le Mans winning TS040 is at the "balls out" power end and the Prius is at the "drink less using as little power" frugal end. I'd be interested to see comparable figures between the Gen4 and Gen3 Priuses since the newer model is much quicker of the mark in a number of areas and I'll bet real world consumption is not as good as a result (but the car feels like a more "normal" car as a result...).

[Anthony Poli]

CPN was with me on the amount of regen when braking. I was comparing the Yaris to my 2010 Auris. The Auris wheels stay cleaner for longer (less brake dust). Using hybrid assistant you can see the brake icon change from green to red as your braking changes between regen and mechanical brakes.

The end result is less power is recovered in the Yaris, compared to the Auris.

For an example on a 40 mph a road where you have used most of the Battery and I have slow down for a roundabout, in the Auris you can brake harder for longer before and put a noticeable amount of power back into the Battery.

The needle can go 3/4 of the way into the regen zone in the Auris, the Yaris it is more like 1/2 before the mechanical brakes come into play.

 

I did wonder why Toyota used the ice to provide heat and not the cooling system from the electric side. Since the temperature from inverter is always above 30+ c.

 

 

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[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, CPN said:

On the Yaris, if you watch the gauges in an app like Hybrid Assistant ......

I had noticed this, but thought it was an error, as it didn't seem to match the Yaris display - I am not convinced that the Yaris software suddenly changes the regen display info depending on whether it is brake or cruise control derived.

[YarisHybrid2016]

If you start manual braking when cruise is braking, and brake to the same point, it feels the same.

[YarisHybrid2016]

Double post (after several hours.. LOL). My last post didn't show.

[Mike J.]

On 09/08/2017 at 7:32 AM, Anthony Poli said:

I know one thing they where the Yaris lacking, the regen braking is less than my Auris. I drive both and the Yaris has a noticeable amount of brake dust

Unless you know that the brake linings are the same, I doubt you can use brake dust as a comparison. For example, my Yaris Hybrid's rear wheels are covered in brake dust, but the fronts only have a light dusting, which is the opposite of all the other cars I have had.

[Cyker]

Yeah... the brake dust can be quite variable based purely on the pad material alone!

I got into a right argument with my local Toyota place over this as I (Apparently naively) expected them to use the blue-backed genuine toyota brake pads for my Yaris; These have been really good in the past for producing very little visible brake dust - braking isn't as sharp but they exhibit good resistance to fade.
Instead the garage used 'optifit' pads, which are basically the same generic textar pads I could have bought from Halfords or any other motor factors for half the cost and produced loads more brake dust, as much as any other pad. (Including the EBC greenstuff pads I had before which, while they do provide a nice braking feel, are definitely not low-dust like their marketing spiel said!)

[CPN]

I find that quite shocking that a Toyota Dealer is not using genuine Toyota specified replacement parts and consumables!!  My next phone call would be to report them to Toyota GB if I was treated like that by my dealer!

[CPN]

On 8/9/2017 at 7:19 PM, Mike J. said:

I had noticed this, but thought it was an error, as it didn't seem to match the Yaris display - I am not convinced that the Yaris software suddenly changes the regen display info depending on whether it is brake or cruise control derived.

After extensive testing and experience with Torque, Techstream software and latterly, Hybrid Assistant, I am more inclined to believe the PIDs coming directly via bluetooth from the ECU to my phone monitor than a rather vague meter on the dashboard which doesn't "tell you" very much frankly...