DPF issues 2012 D-4D Yaris

[Pearl**]

Hi all, 

I bought my 2012 Yaris just over a year and now encountering major dpf issues which Toyota and independent garage seem unable to resolve. 

It started with spanner light coming on only a couple of weeks after being serviced, took it to Toyota who simply plugged it in and switched it off. Then when driving home the power suddenly dropped, but only slightly. I can still get it above 3000rpm. The engine malfunction light also came on so went back to Toyota the next day and asked them to check it out. 

Next thing I had a dreadful call saying the dpf needed either a forced regen or replaced entirely, this he reckoned could be up to £950 for a regen and £1800 for a replacement! Needless to say I was shocked as I bought as new a car as possible to avoid hefty repair bills. I also got stung with a £106 diagnostic bill saying the dpf was 152% full, had a fault code for loss of power and high oil level. The Toyota salesman was quick to say it was my driving style  and that I don't rev it hard enough, but I travel on the motorway every day and the light that should come on to say the dpf needs to regen has never come on. Note: in this model it also tells you when to shift up and down in gear?? Is this not right then Toyota?

I could not afford to have Toyota work on the car so took it to an independent. They then took the dpf out and cleaned it in a solution, popped it back in and took it for a hard 20 min run as advised by a Toyota mechanic. They also changed the oil to a low ash oil.

Went to pick it up and it still had the malfunction light on. They have promised the light would go off after a long drive but after 5 hours driving yesterday, no such luck and it is still lacking power. 

I was also told by the independent garage that Toyota know the design is terrible but obviously don't want to draw attention to their lacking willingness to recall and refit.

i will take the car back to the independent garage tomorrow although I'm not overly confident they fully understand the problem. 

Any help from you guys'll would be most appreciated.

P.S does my car have a turbo? Toyota salesman reckoned that NO Toyota diesel has a turbo??

[Cyker]

Huh... statements like that would make me look for a different Toyota garage... pretty much *all* Toyota diesel engines *HAVE* turbochargers so that salesman doesn't know what he's talking about.

Any diesel engine this small would be undriveable without a turbocharger!

Assuming the blockage has been thoroughly cleaned, I'm hoping the lack of power is just the ECU running in limp home mode because the fault still needs to be cleared - Some faults, esp. more serious ones, don't automatically clear. Your garage should be able to do that with their computer; I don't think you need the special Toyota one for that.

In Toyota's defence, this is a problem with any DPF-equipped car (Partly why I'm holding onto my Mk1!!!), but you are right about the shift up/down indicator - If you obey that religiously the car will probably never get super hot enough to burn out the DPF properly - The rule of thumb here is to drive at motorway speeds a gear lower than you'd normally (e.g. 70mph in 4th), esp. if you can get some steep hills involved, but this isn't always practical.

I'm curious - Do you know what your garage did to purge the DPF? Most of the ways I've heard basically involve compressed air and fire - I'd not seen a way of doing it in a solution (Unless they just cut the actual filter out and dumped it in carb-cleaner for a couple hours! ) 
 

[Pearl**]

Thanks for confirming about the Turbo Cyker, not quite sure why the salesman was quite so adamant that they don't?

i'm not sure on the exact method of cleaning they used but I know they didn't take it out on the motorway and make it perform a forced regen. I can ask them tomorrow when I take it back. They said something about it coming up like new again after the clean but I could have misheard them when they spoke of a "solution"

i will also be asking them about the ECU and see if that will solve the problem. 

Will let you know the outcome, hopefully it will be back up to full power soon as driving up hills at the moment is pretty embarrassing 🙄

Many Thanks,

[FROSTYBALLS]

The gear shift indicator (lights on the dashboard) became an EU requirement for new cars first registered from November 2012 - many manufacturers adopted these earlier in preparation for the change (for example my 2009 Auris had these).

There have been people who have cleaned the dpf in a variety of solutions - few years ago a TOC member supposedly cleaned theirs in a heated bath of citric acid solution for a number of hours. As far as I'm aware Toyota diesels with a dpf should use C2 low ash oil - if it has had something else in, this could be a contributory factor. Copied from an earlier thread - "Diesel engines with DPF/DPNR including optimal drive 0w30 or 5w30 meeting C2 low ash"

As regards the independents comment about the dpf design being terrible, the same engine is used in the Auris, Urban Cruiser, etc and dpf issues are no greater or worse than any other dpf equipped engine from other manufacturers.

There have been non-turbo diesels of this size in the past (eg the 1.4 fitted to the Polo up to 2008). In my experience salespeople are generally not very savvy as regards mechanicals.

[Pearl**]

@Cyker Can I just add that I don't know whether the car is in limp mode or whether it's something with the turbo?? 

The reason I say this is because I can get the car up to 75mph and up to 3000rpm plus, it just takes much longer than it used to getting there.

I might mention to the garage that it is perhaps more than simply a blocked dpf and hopefully they will dig a bit deeper.

 Thanks,

[Pearl**]

So after being cleaned a 2nd time still no further forward with the issue on the dpf.

The malfunction light is still on and still struggling getting up hills and on overtaking.

The independent said they were "flushing" the system. I asked more about it and they said something about boiling water??? 

The independent also paid Toyota to clear the light but said they were unable to force it to go out and that the light may go out of its own accord without "any rhyme or reason" Hmm great design Toyota 🙄

I feel absolutely clueless as to what to do next and never felt so helpless seeing as a garage is unable to fix my, just over 5yr old, car.

The main problem now is, it's sh*t to drive and I can't get rid of the car with a malfunction light on.

Again any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The following AA article provides some information on the pros and cons of dpf's, which highlights some of the issues any diesel fitted with a dpf may face - http://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/fuels-environment/diesel-particulate-filters

Unfortunately flushing a dpf or even deep cleaning the dpf isn't guaranteed to work in every instance. Halfords offer a deep clean service - http://www.halfordsautocentres.com/advice/car-care-advice/dpf-cleaning-at-halfords-autocentres - or you could try using a dpf cleaner additive, but again, there is no guarantee as to how effective either of these may be.

I know you've had the car on a motorway and on  a 5 hour run, but have either of these involved driving the car at high revs, which may force a regen.

 

[Pearl**]

@FROSTYBALLS thanks for the articles.

My issue is that I drive on the motorway for half an hour every day as part of a hour commute there and another hour back. The pre warning light to indicate the DPF was getting near full never came on. It has also always had regular servicing with the correct oil.

so my point of view the state the car has got in seems unfairly placed at my door. 

And regular replacements of a part that costs £1000 seems ridiculous for a car of this age. 

I am aware DPFs can be problematic but the time I have had it, the car has had plenty of time to regen or at least warn me it was getting full.

Thanks again for your input,

 

[Heidfirst]

38 minutes ago, Pearl** said:

 It has also always had regular servicing with the correct oil.

yet earlier you said that the garage changed it to a low ash oil - this suggests that it wasn't before ...

so my point of view the state the car has got in seems unfairly placed at my door. 

you bought a 4 year old car, who knows how it was treated by the previous owner(s).

Out of interest, how many miles on it?

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Pearl** said:

So my point of view the state the car has got in seems unfairly placed at my door. 

No-one on the forum has said that the fault is yours.

As Heidfirst said in the above post, you bought it as a used car and no-one knows how the car was used by the previous owner/s. If it was used by a previous owner for short runs, that could have been a contributory factor. Who knows?

Driving it on a motorway doesn't necessarily mean that the revs will be high enough to force a regen, especially as you implied you were being guided by the gear change indicators, which are designed to help the driver achieve good economy.

 

 

[Pearl**]

It has always been serviced by Toyota so hoping they have been putting the correct oil in.

it has mileage of 50,000

@FROSTYBALLS although gear shift indicators alight for lower gears they do not tell you to shift into 6th gear so revs of approx 2500rpm are regularly maintained on the Motorway in 5th gear.

when I say unfair, I refer to the fact the pre-warning light has never come on to say it requires hard driving yet Toyota have diagnosed no fault with this part? I am aware that a 4yr old car will not be 100% trouble free but is a repair estimated by Toyota at £1800 normal??

[FROSTYBALLS]

The gear change indicators on my previous two six speed Auris and my current cars (Aygo and a six speed i20) operate across all forward gears. 

As Cyker suggested in his first post, try getting up to a high speed in 4th, and maintain that for a while.

Any dpf equipped car can give problems, especially where the previous driving regime isn't known, and if the dpf is blocked, cleaning or replacement can be expensive.

[Cyker]

The thing with clearing the DPF isn't trying to find some magical RPM to trigger a regen - In fact, ideally, you don't want to trigger a regen as this just makes the system squirt diesel into the DPF which, if it keeps doing it to a blocked DPF, will just flood the sump and risk oil getting to places it shouldn't.

The goal is getting the exhaust so ridiculously hot that the soot catches fire and burns off - This means floor-hard accelerations and steep up-hill hauls and long >3000rpm drags. This also means the car needs to be kept in good condition - Correct oil and coolant levels for instance - as this will put strain on the engine!

We're probably beyond that point now, but it got me wondering if the problem is the DPF still...

If they really have cleaned it and can guarantee that there is a good unrestricted air flow through it - Proper specialists have machines to measure this sort of thing - it may be some sensor somewhere that is causing the problem; Maybe an O2 sensor has been fouled and isn't reporting airflow correctly for instance?

May also be some part of the turbo or throttle body has been sooted up; When I got this Yaris it developed a very uneven idle and randomly wouldn't accelerate properly - This was traced to a teeny tiny air channel going from the EGR valve to the turbo throttle-body, which had been so blocked up with soot I didn't even know there was a hole there until my mechanic flushed the crap out of it with carb cleaner, where it appeared like a hidden secret tunnel in the pipe!


Also, does anyone reading this have a specialist/experienced garage in Gloucestershire they've used who they could recommend to the OP? Toyota are great for servicing but useless for this sort of diagnostic work; They are too expensive, rarely have enough experience, and will happily waste days trying and charging for this and that, only looking at the error codes without looking at what else could trigger those codes. It's definitely worth hunting down a garage who are experienced at sorting out these sorts of problems.

I'm don't know how the garage you're using are but I'm a bit dubious in where boiling water would help unless they are talking about steam-cleaning it; Boiling water does sod-all to baked in soot - The only thing that'll shift that easily is stuff like carb cleaner, which is almost magical in its ability to dissolve soot... and almost anything else as it is a powerful solvent (Keep it away from rubber, clothes and paint!)

[nibs]

Hi

I've exactly the same problem  2013 50k miles - being milked of cash by main dealer for negligable result.

How did this end for you ?.

 

ib

[Pearl**]

Basically local Toyota dealership wanted to charge ridiculous price so I went to another garage. Unfortunately they took the job of regenning it with little to no experience of my Toyota (not that they told me that beforehand)

I then went to a specialist diagnostic garage who were able to give it a hard regen in a couple of hours for under £200 with a 6month guarantee so am holding onto the car for now and trying to ensure I drive it hard enough so it goes into regen mode frequently. I also only use BP fuels now. Fingers crossed it'll be ok for a while. 

Toyota have really disappointed me in this. they keep saying their hands are tied and essentially the car wasn't really designed to have the dpf but due to regulations have had to be fitted. I still think they should own up to this issue, or at least not charge silly prices to fix the issue.

Finding a good diagnostic garage who has proven experience in dpf regen is your best bet. 

Hope you get it resolved soon.

Pearl.

[Dannyboy007Y]

Hi!

 I have the same issues, I have had it through an independent garage and the car put through a Regeneration, with the Yaris this must be done by setting up and driving it, the comments I have seen regarding driving it hard  i’ll park true, driving between 2 1/2 and 3000 revs is enough to bring on a regeneration, the heat within the DPF  needs to get to above 600°, the lights that come on on the dash are the engine management, and then you will see the car light with the squiggly lines meaning that limp mode has come in ,  I have had the car pressure tested and some level/content checked and it’s below 8% but these lights still continually come on, I’ve also noted that this is also aggravated if you try and start the car without the full heater cycle going through meaning you’re turning it on or trying to start it too quickly ,  I do note that this is an old post and wondered if anybody else has had these issues and has got any new ideas of how to sort this out? 

[Gerg]

This doesn't answer your question and I'm probably telling you things you already know, but just in case you don't:- 

The car going into a 'limp mode' for certain errors is mandated by government. This is in order to prevent the driver ignoring failing emission-control function and driving on, regardless, allowing the car to pollute excessively.  You'd think the car loses power directly because of the fault, but this isn't necessarily so, it is written into ECU code to 'strangle' the car to highlight that there is an error.

The DPF collects exhaust soot, the regeneration function burns the soot into ash.  The ash has a much, much reduced volume compared to the soot, but the ash has nowhere to go; the DPF is an 'overshoot' filter with deliberate 'dead ends'. So the ash stays in the DPF after a regen.

In normal day to day use the DPF has two exhaust pressure sensors, one on the input and one on the output,. an excessive pressure drop across the sensors will indicate that the filter is loaded with soot beyond a preset level (50%?) and trigger a regeneration.  On some cars, if the regen. is not allowed to happen (car going too slow etc.) within a certain number of miles then an error light is lit on the dash as a warning that the DPF is getting more full.  But, when a certain threshold is exceeded (about 90 - 95%) the DPF can only be regen'd at a dealers via their diagnostics.  I don't know that the Yaris follows this escalation pattern.  Perhaps someone knows if it does?

As I understand it,  ECU will calculate (via an algorithm) the current weight of ash in the filter (perhaps your 8% full figure?), and when the DPF has eventually exceeded the design limit of ash collection (usually at say ~150,000 miles, depends on driving style, etc., etc.) the DPF will need replacing (or maybe just cleaning using specialist chemicals or equipment).

The DPFs are not designed by the manufacturer to be cleaned/emptied of ash, but many independent companies claim they can clean them out, but the exhaust system needs dismantling to do so, if I understand this job properly. 

Happy to be corrected on any of this, of course.

[Dannyboy007Y]

Hi Greg

I was under the impression that once the ash is burnt off with the regeneration that it’s deposited out of the exhaust, Do you not think this is the case?

I have also seen posts mentioning a fuel cap Seal issue what do you think that’s about? 

Regards 

Daniel

[Gerg]

Hi,

Unfortunately, the ash doesn't get to leave the filter.  If it did the whole system would present less of a potential problem for owners.  Indeed, the reason for the 'special' low SAPS oils requirement for cars fitted with a DPF is to prevent the DPF coming to the end of its life (i.e. getting full up) any faster than it should when the engine inevitably burns some of its own engine oil.

The metals salts (i.e. ash) produced by the 'old' oils were often from very useful 'friction modifier' or 'anti-scuff agent' additives etc.  These have now been replaced with different additives in the newer oils.  I am not sure that these replacement oil additives are better from an engine longevity viewpoint, just that they are better from a DPF longevity viewpoint.  

I don't know anything about the fuel cap seal issue that you mention, I'd have to google it....

[bearcub24]

Don’t know if this is relevant but on Saturday morning my 2016 Yaris d4d was idling at slightly higher revs than normal when I pulled into Tesco for my weekly shop, I thought it might be something to do with the dpf so I sat and left if running, maybe a good 20 minutes later (and some strange looks from passers by) it began to idle normally again. When I came out after shopping the exhaust was still ticking as it cooled, must get incredibly hot. 

[Heidfirst]

18 hours ago, bearcub24 said:

 I thought it might be something to do with the dpf so I sat and left if running, maybe a good 20 minutes later (and some strange looks from passers by) it began to idle normally again. When I came out after shopping the exhaust was still ticking as it cooled, must get incredibly hot. 

A DPF regen can be 600C

[DT TEACHERS ROCK]

Just to say having exact same problems. 2012 Yaris 84000 miles. Independent garage tested pressure and said fine so suspected sensor problem. Ordered new sensor and no change. Checked pressure and all good but engine light still on. Due for MOT and will fail so now wondering where to go. Thinks he’s going to put me in touch with DPF doctor as they might have the correct software. Independent garage have tried running 3 pieces software to reset and get engine light off. 

[DT TEACHERS ROCK]

Can anyone recommend an independent Toyota specialist near Leicester that may he able to help with the DPF issue? 

[Bigfatcat]

• Hi, one check is to make sure that when serviced they don't fill the oil above the halfway mark. Oil level rises with a dpf and if already filled to the top mark the oil level will get too high quite quickly and cause the car EMS to turn off regen, and hey, blocked filter and a circus of lights and power loss
•  

[792]

I have a 2013 Yaris, and my DPF has had a forced regen three times since May 2021, and all Toyota say is that there is nothing they can do about it, but are happy to take £100 - £150 for each regen.  It has been mentioned that as I am a female therefore, I only use my car for short trips, when in fact I have an hour journey to work and back each day.  I have tried driving it at high speed and low gear, as advised by Toyota, and by an independent garage.  

I have my Yaris in with Toyota, at the moment.  I have just finished a phone call with them saying that giving it a full service may help, but not guarantee it will help.