Mk2 2.0 D4 grinding/scraping noise

[xzirri]

I'm from Norway 

[Mike169]

Hi Johan, yes I know I am going off the main subject but I have been  through Norway. I live close to London in the UK and I went to meet someone in Sweden. To cut a long story short I went by train to Dover, caught the ferry to France. Then by train went to Paris where I changed trains and went north for 23 hours passing through various countries. When we were as north as land would allow the train stopped at the waters edge, a big ship lowered it's stern 'drawbridge', the train aligned up with the rail tracks on the ship to the ones on the waters edge, the train, about 8 carriages long, then drove onto the ship, closed it's now rear 'drawbridge' and we crossed the water to Norway where the front 'drawbridge' was lowered, the railway tracks aligned from the ship and your country and the train went into and through Norway. When I told some friends here in the UK and this was many, many years ago they thought I was joking with them saying that trains don't go on ships, fascinating journey! Mike.

[xzirri]

Haha I didn't know we had train ferries in Norway  I guess you learn something new every day 

[xzirri]

Update: Turns out my local auto parts store doesn't have a serpentine tool. Got myself a regular 19mm wrench but it turns out I don't have the strength required to pull the tensioner back far enough. I managed to get the serpentine belt slack but not slack enough to get the belt up  Gave up after a few tries, think I'll ask a garage if I could borrow a serpentine tool for a few minutes or take the car to Mr T.

However, I looked around on the internet and found a few videos with failing/bad water pumps, sounds pretty similar to the noise I'm having. All other videos I could find on timing chain slap, broken timing chain guide, bad timing chain tensioner and so on sounded quite different. Any thoughts?

I'll keep you guys in the loop, will post something once I've done something more. Hopefully, this thread will be helpful to others in the future!

[Mike169]

Hi Johan, this is bad and good news to read but may I say I admire the way you are mentally attending this job. Mike.

[xzirri]

Will be able to update you guys on Wednesday  As long as it isn't the timing chain, I'll be able to replace the parts myself, thanks to Peter Finn on YouTube. Worth checking out if you haven't already!

[xzirri]

Got the answer today, and just like I suspected, it's the water pump. Toyota quoted £ 1400 for the job. However, I can get the parts for £ 100. Anyone who knows whether or not I'll be able to change the pump with the engine still in the car?

[Mike169]

Hi Johan.

I am just checking I am reading your post correctly and also to make sure you didn't put an extra '0' on the prices you quoted.

Are you saying the water pump costs £100.00 and Toyota want £1,400.00 to do the job for you?

If all this is correct I am just staggered at the price they quoted to do the work.

Can you tell us exactly what your car is (Again), what engine is fitted and so on as I want to do what Peter Finn has done already and look for the job on You Tube.

Regards, Mike.

[xzirri]

The £ 100 part is not the original Toyota part but should be about the same quality. I think I'll be able to get the original part off eBay for a cheap cost if original parts are that much better though. I'll post the dealership price for the original part once I've picked up the car from the garage but fourteen hundred pounds is what they asked for the part and job. The first non-Toyota garage I called gave me a price of £ 400 so I guess the stealership is just hideously expensive in Norway. That's a £ 1000 difference right there! Keep in mind, though, that cars are really expensive here in Norway. I bought this one for about £ 4800 and the new car price was about £ 40 000 in 2004.

The car is a 2004 Avensis 2.0 D4 with the 1AZ-FSE engine. I haven't found the video for this exact engine but it should be the same as for the other VVTi engines. It's just a matter of getting the serpentine belt off, place a catch pan under the car, loosen some bolts and replace the pump, then reverse the process and fill up with coolant, isn't it?

If it's easy enough for me to do it, I guess some shady unlicenced garage would be willing to do it for £ 100 or so 

[xzirri]

Update: Just picked up the car. Apparently, the price of £ 1400 was including a new alternator. The mechanic said he wasn't sure if the alternator needed to be replaced or not but he included that job as well in the pricing. Cost for a new water pump is £ 240, the job is another £ 240, coolant £ 60, approx £ 550. The rest was for the alternator. They told me they never repair the alternators and just replace them instead. I think I'll do this job myself and fix the alternator myself in the process, it's basically £ 20 in parts, compared to the £ 800 Toyota wanted for a new one.

[Mike169]

Hi Johan.

Once you have taken the serpentine belt off all you need to do is spin the front pulley of the alternator and if it spins quietly then nothing needs doing to it, if it makes a growling noise then a bearing has probably gone and will need a new bearing fitted. Toyota are really going over the top if all your car needs is a water pump and them changing the alternator 'just in case' and from what you have said sounds like they are taking you for an idiot or similar words but stronger.........I think they are just trying to get as much money from you as possible.

Mike.

[xzirri]

Not that I'm an idiot but I think I'll replace the brushes myself while the serpentine belt is off anyways, as the price for new ones is a 10er   Thanks for your time, you've been really helpful!

[dew66]

Seems that my diagnosis based on a "scientific" approach using spectrum analysis of the engine sound was rather a red herring.

If possible I would still like to have another sound recording of the engine, running without the serpentine belt.

[xzirri]

I'll see what I can do but it may be a while before I will be able to do a recording. I appreciate the help I've received so far!

[xzirri]

It’s been a while since I had this issue but today on my way home the red Battery light lit up. I guess the alternator has given up on me  Is there any easy way to fix the alternator? I’ve checked out the prices for a new one and it’s more than 500 pounds!

[Mike169]

Hi again Johan.

Good to hear from you again but it is bad news really since it means it is going to cost you money.

My local car spares shop here in the UK, well they know places that recondition alternators so I am suggesting you have a phone around of your local 'motor factors' as they are called here (Cars spares shops) and find one where you can take your own alternator in to and get it mended for a fraction of the price from one from Toyota, for the sake of a few phone calls and your car off the road for a few days whilst the alternator is being repaired you could save yourself a small fortune!

Incidentally it appears you mended the original noise, what was the fault and did you repair it yourself?

Regards, Mike.

[xzirri]

Hi Mike! Good to see you!

The noise was the water pump. It had started leaking through the weep hole, which in turn killed the bearing. Didn't cost me too much (around 120 quid) and I'm glad it wasn't the timing chain or something serious.

Since the Toyota dealer mentioned that the alternator might need changing back then, I had already checked out my local alternator repair shop. I asked them if they had a voltage regulator for my alternator but they told me the voltage regulator alone couldn't be replaced. Apparently, the voltage regulator is part of a larger electronic unit in this particular alternator. They told me that the part would set me back 85 quid and they couldn't guarantee that it was the part I needed before they'd had a look at it. Since this would cost me even more, I didn't worry any more about the alternator at the time.

I could buy the electronic unit containing the voltage regulator and replace it myself but in that case I'd like to make sure that would remedy the problem. No use in spending 85 quid on a part I can't easily sell without being sure it will do the trick. Is there any way to determine what's wrong without having a PhD in electronics?

Getting the alternator fixed at the specialist shop would probably cost me around 150-200 quid (troubleshooting, parts and labour).

Buying a new/refurbished one would cost me around 4-500 quid. I know I can get an alternator at the breaker for 50-80 quid but the 100 A Bosch alternator is not exactly readily available here. The 2.0 isn't that common in Norway so most of the alternators here are the 90 A Denso ones. Will the 90 A alternator fit/work?

[Mike169]

Hi Johan.

I can not answer all your questions with 100% accuracy, electronics is my 'weak point' if you like. I am going to send you a private message about a man that is simply the best and I highly suggest you chat to him. I am not trying to push you onto someone else, it's just that I know personally how good this man is.

Mike.

 

[xzirri]

Btw, just wondering, could I be experiencing the same issues if there's a blown fuse? Everything works, except for the charging system. Would a blown alternator fuse only prevent charging, or would it also prevent other things from working?

[Mike169]

Hi Johan....I think it highly unlikely it is a blown fuse.

Do you have a multimeter and if yes do you know how to use it?

You only need  one that costs about £20 if you are thinking of buying one. Mike

[xzirri]

I know how to use a multimeter but I don't have one  I guess you want me to check the voltage at the Battery, at the alternator and between the Battery and the alternator, right? 

[Mike169]

Hi Johan, yes you are thinking correctly. I want to check the output of the alternator if you can get to the back of it, it should read about 14.6 volts so at the Battery terminals it will be a fraction less due to voltage drop but say 14.3 volts is about normal. Obviously if you have the multimeter connected to the Battery terminals the voltage should go up slightly as you rev. the car up. Don't forget you have to have the multimeter set to the first setting above say 15 volts so as not to blow the multimeter up.

[xzirri]

Will need to buy a multimeter I guess, tried replacing the 7.5A fuse and no luck.

There has been quite a few issues with this car ever since I bought it. I’ve had to replace headlamps, water pump, gearbox filter, 4 new rims and 8 new tyres... and now the alternator. Nothing too expensive but all of the issues had to be dealt with if I wanted to keep the car on the road. Kinda regretting letting the T22 go 

[Mike169]

Hi Johan. I have had communications with my electronics friend about your problem. I will explain much more tomorrow and tell you what's happening. Have a good evening, Mike.

[xzirri]

Thank you! I really appreciate both of you taking time to help me