petrol or diesel??

[scotchglen]

looking for a new car, looked at various models estates and suv's, currently own 2005 1.8 avensis estate and thinking about getting another. cant make mind up over another 1.8 petrol which there seem to be very few or go for 2.0 diesel which are more common. looking to get 2012-2015 model with minimal miles for around 10 grand if possible. looking for pros and cons future problems for both petrol and diesel models. advise please many thanks

[FROSTYBALLS]

Might be useful to know anticipated annual mileage.

Going up to a 2015 model could include an early BMW engined diesel.

The one unknown with diesels is what the changes to the VED system (car tax) for diesels will be that are due to be announced in the Autumn statement.

[Heidfirst]

how many miles per year will you do & what kind of mix (urban/extra-urban)?

How long do you plan to keep it?

If you do go diesel make sure that it is at least Euro V.

 

[scotchglen]

to be honest only really do 6-7000 miles a year mainly around town only really big runs maybe twice a year for hols. how long to keep it depends weather to have it on hp or pcp had current model for around 7 years and its starting to cost and wondering how long to keep throwing money at it last 24 months new clutch, starter motor, rear coil springs, tyres all round and rear pads. keeps throwing up warning lights - engine management, vsc and no trc lights . been told possible catalitic converter and sensor fault possible £800 bill and thinking of cutting my losses

[Heidfirst]

For that mileage/mix definitely buy a petrol, the 1.8 Valvematic is also very reliable with no DMF/DPF/turbo to potentially cause issues. Only problem is that, as you say, there are very few good 1.8 Tourers for sale ... (possibly also consider Mazda 6 petrols, they seem a bit more numerous)

Some things to consider: 1st facelift versions (MY2012) started building late 2011 for Dcember 11/Jan 12 registration. An even more extensive rejig mid 2015.

Subject to mileage & service history 2013> cars will still be in 5 year warranty plus this can be extended for a fee should you so wish.

[Mr Wolf]

Given your circumstances I agree that you might be better off with a petrol, rather than a diesel. I bought mine in January but had been looking for a suitable 2015 one for months previously. They were hard to find back then, but are even more difficult to source now.

 

Prior to my current car I had a 2010 1.8 petrol Avensis Tourer. There was nothing wrong with it (as far as I was aware) when I traded it in but I fancied something newer and bought another Avensis because I was very happy with my previous one. What I can tell you is that my 2015 Avensis is better in most respects compared to my 2010 version.

 

I got my Avensis for a little less than £11,000 with 23,000 on clock and in very good condition. I doubt you'll find a 2015 petrol Tourer but there are some 2014 ones around within your price range although you might need to travel to get one. I bought mine from a garage 120 miles away but was pretty sure from what they told me that I wouldn't be wasting my time.

Good Luck!

[Heidfirst]

Need to change the post code & mileage to suit you http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-desc&radius=1500&postcode=g775tn&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&make=TOYOTA&model=AVENSIS&price-from=5000&year-from=2010&maximum-mileage=50000&body-type=Estate&fuel-type=Petrol

[Konrad C]

I have a few (lots) points to make the OP reason for changing the car and some observations using Auto Trader on whats being offered. 

The faults regarding the VSC/TRC lights and diagnosis, the sensors can be tested for resistance, which will tell if they are working within spec. Plus what are the emissions - this will confirm if the catalytic converter is working or not. The sensors are the cheaper option. I thought a good diagnostic would confirm the actual faulty sensor - bank 1 or 2 and the sensor. Was the OP's car the pre face lift and did it consume oil? Mid 2005 was when the 1ZZ engine was updated to fix the oil consumption problem.

I looked on Auto Trader and there are less petrol estate versions than diesel, with a ratio of 1 in 5. I covered from 2009.

Can I add the Auris Touring Sports. I would go for the 1.6 Vmatic or if really lucky a Hybrid. I am not keen on the 1.33 engine in the estate body, but an owner may prove me wrong about the engine working hard to pull the estate.  

I have compared the T25 to the T27 estate (both 1.8) and I would go for the newer car because there are more and better features - 6 speed, cruise control, lower VED, etc. I am enjoying my Tourer and did change the wear and tear parts - brakes, clutch and tyres. If you get a young good example, you should not need to do this! 

  

[Willss]

Spent 6 months plus looking for a less than 3 yr old avensis petrol tourer with manual gearbox.  Could find NOTHING.........(ANYWHERE) with fewer than 30k miles on it.  Several with more miles (ex hire cars) or older but didn't want to go down that route so ended up buying new.  Very good deals available atm but I appreciate initial outlay and depreciation associated may not be for everyone (planning to keep for 8-10yrs so not as much of a worry for me).

I will write up a 'review' at some point but I can say it is a lovely car to drive.  Very pleased with it.  Also still own a 1.6 auris tourer.  these can be got a lot more easily.  Would recommend a 1.6 over a 1.33 or 1.2.  Tested a 1.2 a few times but didn't like as much as my older 1.6 so decided not to get a new auris hence the avensis.  1.6 is very economical running at low 50s in the summer on commute with sensible driving.

Avensis is a far nicer car to be in.  Better specced and more space but strangely I probably prefer driving the auris anywhere other than on the motorway. Different levels of quality internally and Avensis suits our family needs much better.  However, auris 1.6 is a great car, been very reliable so far.  Won't go wrong with either tbh.

Don't get a diesel with your milage!!!

For info 1.8 petrol Avensis gets 45mpg on same journey 1.6 petrol auris gets 52mpg on.

 

[Countrylad]

38 minutes ago, Konrad C said:

Can I add the Auris Touring Sports. I would go for the 1.6 Vmatic or if really lucky a Hybrid. I am not keen on the 1.33 engine in the estate body, but an owner may prove me wrong about the engine working hard to pull the estate.  

Seconded. The Auris Touring is worth a look, especially with the 1.6 petrol engine. The back seat space is smaller than the Avensis, but otherwise it's really very capacious - mine has almost the same boot capacity as my old VW Passat estate - and, being a turbo-less engine, it's much less complicated than a diesel. I bought my 64 reg model for £10,500, 18 months old, from a main Toyota dealer, with a high-mileage 30K on the clock - which was why it was cheap even though it had all the Excel Plus toys.

Am I bothered about that mileage? Hardly - I only do 8,000-9,000 a year, so it's not going to stack up into anything bothersome for a very long time.

The 1.6 VVT petrol engine is a trusty old workhorse, and I think the only reason they discontinued it was that its real-world 40 mpg (approx) was a bit below what Brussels demands these days.  I've just taken mine all over France with 600 pounds of gear in the back, and it had plenty of grunt on the autoroute I got 42.5pg over the whole 2,500 mile run; long term,  it's more like 39 mpg. No complaints about that.

Mazda 6 estate was also on my shortlist, but the ride is somewhat firm. Very happy with the Auris.

[frankie406]

And petrol is cheaper to run ie:parts etc 

And more refined to drive...(heidfirst..>

Although mazda parts/oil is expensive 😓😣)forgot to research that before buying though that's for the mazda branded parts.

[Duggerz]

Mazda parts are more expensive than Toyota? Are you sure? :)

[frankie406]

Highly sure...Toyota in Belfast (Charles hurst) was free oil with service parts....mazda are looking  £70 for the 0w/20 oil alone.the woman's auris 1.33vvti service kit was £35 with free oil too.

[Duggerz]

That's a surprise, I thought Toyota process were now expensive than Rolls Royce, but I know they are competitive on service items. Try pricing up a dust shield for an Avensis rear disk brake and prepare to be amazed. £500 for a piece of tin. Seriously.

[frankie406]

Seriously for a dust shield no way maybe I've just been lucky lol...yeah they were looking crazy prices for the heat shield for under the tank 

[Heidfirst]

6 hours ago, frankie406 said:

And petrol is cheaper to run ie:parts etc 

And more refined to drive...(heidfirst..>

Although mazda parts/oil is expensive 😓😣)forgot to research that before buying though that's for the mazda branded parts.

Hmm, not sure that the petrol is more refined to drive (certainly than the 2.2 D4D, I have seen comments that the BMW engine has more vibration). The petrol certainly handles better though with less weight in the nose.

Just popped into my very local Mazda dealer this week to look at the 6 Tourer - some very good deals available on diesels (basically 5-6k off list), less on petrols. Checked prices for service plans too (very reasonable, possibly cheaper than Mr. T.). An extra 2 years warranty to bring it to the same 5 year level as Toyota standard was £500+.

[Willss]

Avensis vs auris size wise (usable)  isn't as much difference as you'd think.  Rear seat is where most gain is...... avensis is perfectly usable for an adult despite my long legs when driving.  With the auris  rear passenger space behind me is very cramped. Can't get a rear facing child seat behind me in the auris tourer but can in the avensis.

Boot wise volume isn't that different on paper.  In terms of floor area width is virtually identical, front to back depth is about 20cm more on avensis.  Avensis is level load.  My old boot liner from the other auris tourer which we sold fits well in the avensis with a bit (20cm)  unprotected just behind the rear seats! Avensis boot looks much larger but isn't as like I say the liner/protector fits well!!!

My auris 1.6 tourers both did high 40s/lows 50s brim to brim mpg depending on time of year/driving style!

 

[Heidfirst]

28 minutes ago, Willss said:

Boot wise volume isn't that different on paper.  In terms of floor area width is virtually identical, front to back depth is about 20cm more on avensis.  Avensis is level load.  My old boot liner from the other auris tourer which we sold fits well in the avensis with a bit (20cm)  unprotected just behind the rear seats! Avensis boot looks much larger but isn't as like I say the liner/protector fits well!!!

In theory the Auris TS has the slightly larger volume with the seatbacks down (1658 v 1609 l). In practice I think that is probably due to a steeper rear screen & therefore all the "extra" space is in an area that I never use. Indeed, I find the longer, wider bay & wider entrance (97cm v 92cm) of the Avensis more useful (for my needs) & certainly when driving I was aware that the Avensis is a class up & as you said a far nicer place to be.

An Auris TS hybrid will, however, be 1 of the cars that I look at as a replacement for my Avensis when the time comes.

[scotchglen]

many thanks for all your advise confirmed what i already knew really. to be honest im stunned how few petrols in all models are for sale market is a wash with diesel. defo looking at avensis or mazda 6 estate auris just not big enough for us family of 5 plus large dog.

[Mr Wolf]

2 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

Hmm, not sure that the petrol is more refined to drive (certainly than the 2.2 D4D, I have seen comments that the BMW engine has more vibration). The petrol certainly handles better though with less weight in the nose.

 

Having not recently driven the diesel versions I also couldn't be sure that the petrol is more refined. But I'd be surprised if it is. At idle and making sensible acceleration the petrol engine is barely audible and very smooth. But gets a bit noisy if you really put your foot down!

I think I am right that the current petrol uses the Toyota Valvematic and unlike the diesels is not BMW sourced. I too have seen reports about vibration in the diesels.

[Willss]

19 minutes ago, Mr Wolf said:

Having not recently driven the diesel versions I also couldn't be sure that the petrol is more refined. But I'd be surprised if it is. At idle and making sensible acceleration the petrol engine is barely audible and very smooth. But gets a bit noisy if you really put your foot down!

I think I am right that the current petrol uses the Toyota Valvematic and unlike the diesels is not BMW sourced. I too have seen reports about vibration in the diesels.

I have only driven 2 x Avensis diesels on test drives.  Both 16 plate 1.6Ds both very rattly, vibrating and noisey..... was not impressed took me back to diesels 10+yrs ago (up until current petrols I'd had diesels for years so diesels not new to me).  

Petrol is far, far smoother and quieter in my opinion  - based on my current avensis and the 2 I test drove........ others may be different, as may the 2.0D! 

[alan333]

33 minutes ago, Mr Wolf said:

I think I am right that the current petrol uses the Toyota Valvematic and unlike the diesels is not BMW sourced. 

Correct

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, scotchglen said:

 to be honest im stunned how few petrols in all models are for sale market is a wash with diesel.

it's an area of the market in the UK dominated by company cars/fleet sales & the economics for both businesses & employees (BIK) very much favoured diesels to the extent that some manufacturers may even have effectively stopped selling petrols in that sector in the UK.

Now, with dieselgate et al many of the few good s/h petrols that were available have been snapped up.

[Willss]

28 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

it's an area of the market in the UK dominated by company cars/fleet sales & the economics for both businesses & employees (BIK) very much favoured diesels to the extent that some manufacturers may even have effectively stopped selling petrols in that sector in the UK.

Now, with dieselgate et al many of the few good s/h petrols that were available have been snapped up.

My dealer had a list of about 8 people looking for a nearly new avensis tourer petrol.  Autos come up a bit more often than manuals but due to about 95% of avensis being fleet cars (and fleet companies want diesels) there are virtually no nearly new petrols about.  

The petrols that are bought new tend to be bought privately and therefore are very rarely available until they are a good few years old.  Mine should be with me for a long time!

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, Mr Wolf said:

I think I am right that the current petrol uses the Toyota Valvematic and unlike the diesels is not BMW sourced. I too have seen reports about vibration in the diesels.

Toyota entered a collaborative arrangement with BMW, where Toyota shared their Battery technology with BMW and BMW licenced Toyota to use the 1.6 and 2.0 litre diesel engines. Toyota had a gap in their range as regards a 1.6 diesel, and it made sense to use the BMW N47 rather than develop their own.

Not the first time that Toyota have used another manufacturer's diesel engines in their cars - some versions of the Corolla (prior to 2002) used a Peugeot diesel engine.

The petrol engines are Toyota.