Dangerous Aygo Windows pt2

[rgvsean]

Apparently you're not allowed to disagree with management here. Politely and within the rules. They like to have the final word even if that means defending a brand over your safety.

Posts are locked because a person with power to lock topics doesn't like being disagreed with, even with something they have no clue about.

I'm not coming back to this forum after this post and will be contacting admin for my stuff to be deleted.

I just wanted to post in the original thread that the DVSA Report form states:

Quote

If you find a serious defect that affects the safety of your vehicle, one of its parts, or an accessory, report it to the manufacturer immediately.Tell the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if you’re not happy with how the manufacturer is dealing with your report.

I'll be unable to let you all know how this ends now. Good luck people and hope nothing bad happens to you if your window falls out.

If you have any complaints about not finding out the end to this story - then you know who to contact.

[Planemo]

It's a shame the original thread was locked. There appeared to be animosity from the start and I cannot understand why. I have always respected Frosty's comments and will continue to do so, but I have to say I agree with the posts made by rgv.

We all know the Aygo has many faults, the awful water ingress issues being one of them, but these are irritating and annoying rather than dangerous. I have to concur with rgv that the bonding used on the front hinges in the 5 door models should not be failing within 10 years. This is not nearly enough longevity for a modern car, and if this was indeed its 'design life' then someone made a grave error.

I have no intention of speaking to Toyota about it as I have no doubt whatsoever that this issue would never end up as a recall, but I see no problem with the matter being pointed out by a forum member and those members making their own decisions on where they want to go with it.

I will finish by saying that I am happy with and understand that the Aygo is built to an extremely low cost, and I generally accept the poor level of construction that goes with this, but windows falling out is not acceptable. I had assumed that I was the only one that had suffered the problem. It appears not.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The topic was locked because it had gone as far as it could, and contained the only action that could be followed on a vehicle which is outside the new car warranty, if people were concerned about a possible safety aspect. This action is to report the issue to DVSA using the following link:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect?utm_source=ToyotaOwnersClub&utm_medium=ForumLinks

 

[Planemo]

I respectfully disagree that the thread had not 'gone as far as it could', given that neither myself nor rgv had actually come to a conclusion on the issues we have had with a potentially dangerous fault. Rgv is awaiting possible DVSA enforcement and/or their comments which I am sure rgv would have posted onto the thread, and I updated that I was currently looking into alternative bonding agents, which again I would feel it pertinent to update the thread with my findings. Both I feel could provide valuable help in terms of future problems (which I have no doubt will occur) for forum members.

However, as you feel that the issue is 'closed' then I will refrain from posting anything more on the matter.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Disagreement is fine.

If either yourself or the OP wish to provide updates, this topic can be updated.

[rgvsean]

So, even though I flounced off in a bit of a tantrum after (in my opinion) unnecessarily strong moderation; I have an important update for those concerned.

I have had a call from Toyota who now tell me they were aware of this fault and they made in production modifications to stop it happening.

They say it should not and should never happen - that the windows should never fall out. And they don't want their cars driving around with windows falling out and she understood the potential for what could happen "did not bear thinking about".

They have insisted on replacing the window at their expense, even though I said I was happy with my repair and did not want it; they could not insist I had it done but she was very kind and polite in requesting that I do let them from a moral and legal perspective. This is being done as goodwill accepting no liability off course.

So - don't accept things that are clearly not right or acceptable. Stand your ground and finally you will get to speak to someone with the common sense and power to resolve the matter.

Anyway, this thread has now officially run it's course. If you have had this window failure and are running your own repair please speak to Toyota, who will replace it for you.

It's not been widely publicised so hopefully now here, the word will spread and if you see other similar failures you can point people to this thread.

[Planemo]

Well whaddya know. Theres an interesting update.

As a result of your efforts, for which I thank you, I am now highly inclined to also progress my own scenario with Toyota. The only questions I would have are whether they would honour the replacement of both windows (which I feel is fair and proportionate) and whether they would also cover the costs of both being re-tinted (which mine are).

The fact that they have admitted they were aware of the fault (and clearly haven't issued a recall) would suggest that they might be a little amicable with my request for both windows to be replaced and recompense for the re-tint (around £30 per glass if memory serves).

Would you be kind enough to provide the name of the lady you spoke with and the dealer she works at. PM if you feel more comfortable.

Thanks again for your work on this.

[rgvsean]

Hi Planemo,

No problem. I approached this from the angle of a pedestrian or cyclist being hurt, I had no real interest in a warranty claim or having Toyota fix the car (as I explained in the other thread; I just use it as a run-a-bout to save fuel and the roads I come to work on - you're either going down a pot hole or over a turnip). I wanted it inspecting before a repair, that's all.

As a result of my complaint and they way it was ignored for 2 weeks, an internal investigation has been launched to establish why it was not escalated quickly,  the lady I spoke with described the pictures as "graphic and worrying".  Maybe she was playing to the crowd but I really got the impression she was determined to resolve it rather than shut me up. 

As someone who runs a business I would say I'd have to call your window tints inconsequential loss. Unless it was a Toyota fitted option. You might have to swallow that part of it, but worth a polite try to 'make up for any inconvenience'.

What triggered this lady getting involved was I contacted facebook team and told them not to bother having anyone call me now as I had filed a report to the DVSA - that report is obviously still in, but the lady I spoke to seemed to think the DVSA were already aware. Maybe Toyota/Cit/Pug already met with them? Because it was decided years ago that this would NOT be a safety recall and I imagine DVSA must have a say in that - but I don't know for sure.

I will PM you some details Planemo. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Planemo]

Thanks RGV, also for your PM. My tints were not factory and I understand how these things normally go re inconsequential loss. I will however raise the point as after all I wouldn't be re-tinting if it wasn't for the window issue. Its a £70 bill and a half day to sort so I am not keen on avoiding the issue. It would be interesting to see what the DVSA report says...

Cheers

[rgvsean]

Quote

 

I acknowledge receipt of your Vehicle Safety Defect Report which now has the above reference.

The Vehicle & Operator Services Agency, in conjunction with the relevant vehicle manufacturer, initiates investigations into reports of failure of a vehicle, or its component systems that are alleged to be attributable to design or construction defects.

All enquires are carried out under the terms of a Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects (the Code) that has the support of UK General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (as amended). A copy of the Consumer Guide to Vehicle Safety Defects is enclosed.

The definition of a safety defect, as described in the Code, is ‘a failure due to design or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others.  This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom’.  Those defects that are attributable to neglect, lack of maintenance, abuse, fair wear and tear or provide sufficiently advanced warning to a driver are not normally taken forward.

Though DVSA has had reports of bonding separation on window seals this is not something we have record of. I’ve checked our records and cannot find any similar instances affecting Aygo. We will now progress this with the manufacturer for further information.

Thank you for contacting DVSA.

 

Sounds like they agree as pursuing it further for now.  Although if Toyota claim they were aware and have fixed it, then it may be thrown out. 

 

I will update if any change or updates given to me by DVSA.

 

[rgvsean]

Toyota replaced both rear windows free of charge on Tuesday - the design doesn't look any different, same surface area of glue. Have to assume process or glue has changed if what I was told about sorting a problem at the factory was identified and fixed, as I was told.

Anyway, have to say; credit where it's due. If Toyota are prepared to take safety matters seriously even on cheap 11 year old cars it does instil confidence in the brand. Mistakes happen, things are unforeseen, it's hard to test for 11 years in the future.

It did take a long time to get the windows, so if it's your only car and you can't fix your own window; you would need a solution to keep on the road for a while. 

 

 

[Linda Goldsmith]

Hi

Glad to hear you got your windows replaced I have the same problem on my back drivers side have tried different glues but none work should I get in touch with my local Toyota garage do you think I stand a chance because it is dangerous 

 

[rgvsean]

44 minutes ago, Linda Goldsmith said:

Hi

Glad to hear you got your windows replaced I have the same problem on my back drivers side have tried different glues but none work should I get in touch with my local Toyota garage do you think I stand a chance because it is dangerous 

 

Yes - do get in touch with them. Be aware they not know about this so you might need to explain there is a precedent. Toyota UK wanted to change mine even though I told them I had repaired myself.

If you get knocked back let me know and I will help you. You should get 2 new windows which would otherwise cost you £400 inc labour. 

[Linda Goldsmith]

31 minutes ago, Linda Goldsmith said:

Hi

Glad to hear you got your windows replaced I have the same problem on my back drivers side have tried different glues but none work should I get in touch with my local Toyota garage do you think I stand a chance because it is dangerous 

 

B

[Linda Goldsmith]

Thanks for getting back to me will try tomorrow and will let you know I would require both windows as the other one is partly away from the frame 

[rgvsean]

No worries, I'm glad this post is able to help people. 

That's what forums are for :)

[Linda Goldsmith]

Hi Sean 

Been past from pillar to post lol told they take no notice of forums and I would have to pay £150 for them to look at it if they do the work I would get 50 % back from that but they could not give me a price on how much it would be so I said I will let them know because it’s out of warranty I have to pay but I stated it’s dangerous and it is a fault but they said they would have to look at it first hence the £150 lol

 

[rgvsean]

I assume you're talking about the dealer? Not surprised. Dealers are not Toyota though, you need to speak to Toyota UK.

Go to Toyota uk facebook page and make a post your windows are falling out. They will ask you to send details via private message and then arrange someone to call you. 

I was told Toyota had an internal investigation about speeding up serious problems raised via customer contact - so you can see if that's true or not!

[rgvsean]

So, it turns out the lady who sorted my case was there temporarily and normally works the Lexus stuff. Now she's gone back to Lexus, no joy for people with this issue who ask now.

The small window of opportunity has closed - unlike Aygo back windows (I write my own material) 

I take my previous compliment to Toyota back.

 

 

[Chloe99]

Hi,

This has happened to me this evening while doing 40mph. I am a nursing student and can not afford to be paying for new windows. 

I am glad to see that this isn’t something that only I have experienced.

I contacted Toyota on twitter who told me to contact my nearest dealer.

I presume they will charge a fortune? 

[Linda Goldsmith]

 Hi Chloe 

same thing happened to me plus I have noticed the other side is becoming loose I was also told to go to local dealer and they said it would cost me over £500 per window as they would have to put a new one in even though it was not broken I also cannot afford this so at the moment I keep glueing in but now I wonder if this is a fault and should be reported to the DVLA how old is your car 

[Chloe99]

5 minutes ago, Linda Goldsmith said:

 Hi Chloe 

same thing happened to me plus I have noticed the other side is becoming loose I was also told to go to local dealer and they said it would cost me over £500 per window as they would have to put a new one in even though it was not broken I also cannot afford this so at the moment I keep glueing in but now I wonder if this is a fault and should be reported to the DVLA how old is your car 

Hi, 

Yes the other side is also coming loose. I have contacted the dealer and see what they get back to me with. My car is also 2006. It seems to be a common occurrence? There has got to be a fault as it doesn’t seem to be an isolated problem. 

Definitely needs to be a safety recall. Like the original person of the post said, what happened if it full detached at a high speed. 

I now have damaged paint work too. The car it’s self is not work paying £500 for windows. I only paid £1250 for the car in September 2017

It is duct taped on for now

[Chloe99]

I have just gone to the Toyota website and I have found they are doing a safety recall 

[FROSTYBALLS]

18 minutes ago, Linda Goldsmith said:

I wonder if this is a fault and should be reported to the DVLA how old is your car 

Owners may report possible safety issues to DVSA - see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

However, bear in mind that DVSA will need to receive a number of complaints of the same issue before any investigation is considered.

6 minutes ago, Chloe99 said:

I have just gone to the Toyota website and I have found they are doing a safety recall

Bear in mind the Toyota recall checked covers both safety recalls and voluntary service campaigns - vsc (which are not safety recalls). The checker doesn't say what the recall or vsc is for, so may not be relating to the rear side windows.

[Chloe99]

3 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Owners may report possible safety issues to DVSA - see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

However, bear in mind that DVSA will need to receive a number of complaints of the same issue before any investigation is considered.

Bear in mind the Toyota recall checked covers both safety recalls and voluntary service campaigns - vsc (which are not safety recalls). The checker doesn't say what the recall or vsc is for, so may not be relating to the rear side windows.

The recall notice states rear door windows