Prius 2016- Which reliability rating

[albany]

I've just received the Which? Car Guide 2017/18, and I'm staggered by the rating given to the Prius (2016-). It comes in second bottom of the Large Car Buyer's Guide with a Test Score of 58% (compared to, for example, the Avensis's score of 77%).

The star ratings (out of 5) are as follows:

Ride Quality 4, Seat Comfort 3, Visiblity 3, Boot & Storage 3, Performance 3, Reliability 2. The summary is "Impressive fuel economy let down by unusually poor reliabilty".

I've had my Excel for a year now and haven't had any problems, and I can't remember reading in this forum of any reliability issues. Which? have not given the sample size, as they used to, but I presume the data is from their annual survey.

Are there any issues, or have Which?, not for the first time, made a monumental error?

[BhxTrev]

I've owned a Gen4 Prius for almost 12 months now & quite frankly I'm gobsmacked by your posting. I certainly don't agree with Which's report & personally haven't had a single problem with my car so far. Seems to me to be a strange report especially considering as I'm lead to believe, that the new Gen4 Prius was deemed the safest car on the road in 2016. Something not right here! 

[PeteB]

I've done 17,000 miles in mine since June last year and apart from one minor blip with the 12v Battery (replaced under warranty yesterday as it happens), it's been perfect.

My own assessment would be:

Ride Quality 4½, Seat Comfort 5, Visibility 4, Boot & Storage 4, Performance 5, Reliability 5.

(on 17" wheels I'd downgrade ride quality to 4)

[FROSTYBALLS]

35 minutes ago, albany said:

I've just received the Which? Car Guide 2017/18, and I'm staggered by the rating given to the Prius (2016-). It comes in second bottom of the Large Car Buyer's Guide with a Test Score of 58% (compared to, for example, the Avensis's score of 77%).

The star ratings (out of 5) are as follows:

Ride Quality 4, Seat Comfort 3, Visiblity 3, Boot & Storage 3, Performance 3, Reliability 2. The summary is "Impressive fuel economy let down by unusually poor reliabilty".

Are there any issues, or have Which?, not for the first time, made a monumental error?

I'm a member of Which? and one needs to be clear on how the car buying guide is put togeher.

The Which Car Buying Guide is based largely on feedback from owners who complete the survey questionnaire - this includes both Which? members and non-members. For example, the 2016-17 Car Buying Guide was based on feedback from 58,000 owners.

18 minutes ago, BhxTrev said:

Seems to me to be a strange report especially considering as I'm lead to believe, that the new Gen4 Prius was deemed the safest car on the road in 2016. Something not right here! 

The Which? scoring of each individual model, based on owner feedback, doesn't take into account safety - that is why we have the voluntary EuroNCAP testing, and the 2016 Prius performed well in that test, and achieved a high safety rating.

If you disagree with the Which? Car Buying Guide assessment, I would suggest that you complete the survey questionnaire for the 2018-19 Which? Car Buying Guide when it becomes available - obviously the more owners who participate, the larger the sample of information Which? is able to use.

[albany]

35 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

If you disagree with the Which? Car Buying Guide assessment, I would suggest that you complete the survey questionnaire for the 2018-19 Which? Car Buying Guide when it becomes available - obviously the more owners who participate, the larger the sample of information Which? is able to use.

Yes, I certainly intend to do that. My point, however, was that if there are significant reliability issues, wouldn't they have been experienced by members of this forum?

[BhxTrev]

Having had a lot of experience of Toyota cars & how reliable they are all I can say is if my new Prius turns out to be a bag of nails my next car will certainly not be a Toyota. As it is I'm still a bit concerned with the Which? report though I personally still have my faith in Toyota since I personally have only ever praised their cars. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 minutes ago, albany said:

My point, however, was that if there are significant reliability issues, wouldn't they have been experienced by members of this forum?

Not necessarily, and what may be significant to one person, may not be to another. Which? hasn't said the reliability issues experienced by Prius owners who participated in the 2-17-2018 survey are significant. 

[mickburkesnr]

Could it be how the owner perceives the problems? You look at Amazon and you see a book for example that you want to buy (in my field it's usually a programming book) and you want to know whether the book covers the topics you need in the best way possible. But you'll always get the clowns who give it a 1 star review just because it turned up late.

What I'm getting at is say an owner took delivery of a Prius and say the tyre blew out after a week. Or the wiper blade fell off. Would they have been that bemused at the issue that it caused them to think "well this obviously shows the car is unreliable"?

I've never completed the questionaire but I'd be keen to know exactly how Which? et al broach the subject of reliability and how broad or specific they are about the questions.

[kithmo]

 Sound like a conspiracy to me, written by Hummer owners 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Extract taken from the Which? Car Buying Guide 2017 survey -

"To make sure we rate cars fairly, we classify every fault we hear about as one of the following:

Most-serious faults are major problems that are likely to result in a breakdown, are expensive to repair and likely to lead to the car being off the road for more than one day.

Serious faults are likely to result in a breakdown and will either be expensive to fix, or keep the car off the road for more than a day.

Medium-rated faults are likely to cause a breakdown, but not be expensive or time consuming to repair.

Less-serious faults are unlikely to require immediate repair work, but could still be costly to fix.

Least-serious faults are non-essential problems that require less than a day off the road, and are cheap to put right.

When manufacturers ask why a car has scored poorly in the survey, we share as much detail as we can to help them get to the root of a problem. So these results not only help us compare different cars, they also give carmakers a reason to keep evolving and improving their products."
 

[albany]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Extract taken from the Which? Car Buying Guide 2017 survey -

When manufacturers ask why a car has scored poorly in the survey, we share as much detail as we can to help them get to the root of a problem. So these results not only help us compare different cars, they also give carmakers a reason to keep evolving and improving their products."
 

Well, let's hope that somebody at Toyota UK has seen these results and has asked for the details.

[FROSTYBALLS]

That's down to Toyota GB as the sales organisation for the UK (including Northern Ireland) and Malta.

[Ancient Nerd]

On 20/07/2017 at 1:07 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

That's down to Toyota GB as the sales organisation for the UK (including Northern Ireland) and Malta.

Not a chance then!

[ferox]

A wife of my friend is owning one for over two years one and no further issues and I personally haven't heard much about problems with gen4

[mickburkesnr]

On 20/07/2017 at 0:54 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

Extract taken from the Which? Car Buying Guide 2017 survey -

"To make sure we rate cars fairly, we classify every fault we hear about as one of the following:

Most-serious faults are major problems that are likely to result in a breakdown, are expensive to repair and likely to lead to the car being off the road for more than one day.

Serious faults are likely to result in a breakdown and will either be expensive to fix, or keep the car off the road for more than a day.

Medium-rated faults are likely to cause a breakdown, but not be expensive or time consuming to repair.

Less-serious faults are unlikely to require immediate repair work, but could still be costly to fix.

Least-serious faults are non-essential problems that require less than a day off the road, and are cheap to put right.

When manufacturers ask why a car has scored poorly in the survey, we share as much detail as we can to help them get to the root of a problem. So these results not only help us compare different cars, they also give carmakers a reason to keep evolving and improving their products."
 

Out of curiosity then, what weight are those categories given? Are they all equal or are some weighted more than others when it comes to the overall score?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Which? won't disclose what weightings are used - similar to Auto Express' Driver Power and What Car's JD Power surveys.

[albany]

16 minutes ago, mickburkesnr said:

Out of curiosity then, what weight are those categories given? Are they all equal or are some weighted more than others when it comes to the overall score?

I don't know how the various categories of faults are weighted, but the overall score is weighted 50% on lab and road tests, 40% on reliabilty and 10% on safety.

Which?'s original review of the 2016 Prius gave it an overall rating of 80% making it a "Best Buy", I seem to remember, although this has now been amended to 58% on the website. The section on reliability is unchanged, however, stating that "The 2016- Prius is too new for us to have model-specific reliability data on it, but overall brand reliability for Toyota is good: it scores four stars in the latest Which? Car Survey." On the face of it a change from 4 stars for reliabilty to 2 stars would be expected to result in a reduction of 16% in the overall score, so the actual reduction of 22% seems a bit drastic.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Which? are in the process of amending the car reviews in light of the findings (which include but are not limited to reliability) from the 2017-18 Car Buying Guide.

[mickburkesnr]

3 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Which? won't disclose what weightings are used - similar to Auto Express' Driver Power and What Car's JD Power surveys.

That's fair enough. I just have that feeling that there's going to be niggling issues rather than massive reliability problems and it could skew the results. But who knows, only Which?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just out of interest the Prius Generation 4 came 36th in the Auto Express Driver Power survey 2017 

[BhxTrev]

Hmm, I'm so confused especially by the Which? report & I just don't really know now what's fact or fable! I for one would never ever no matter what trust a report on absolutely anything that Which? give a report on!!! Sorry Frosty if that goes against what you do but I just cannot believe that an organisation could ever seriously give such a damning report on a car that I have found so far, to be reliable & a great motor to drive. I reckon Toyota ought to look seriously into this report though as already pointed out they probably won't!

[Duffryn]

Quite frankly, as long as I'm happy with my car (which I totally am), I couldn't give two bleeps what anybody else, or magazine, thinks or writes about it.

I would hope, though, that Toyota aren't happy seeing that rating and come up with some sort of comment on it!

[Chris Dance]

Well said Duffryn. Totally agree. I have owned Prius, Gen 2, 3 and now 4.  All the best cars I have owned. All reliable and economical.

I remember a Montego I once owned every journey something broke on it and  within 6 months it was rusting away. Vauxhalls I owned were "rust buckets".

[PeteB]

1 hour ago, Chris Dance said:

Well said Duffryn. Totally agree. I have owned Prius, Gen 2, 3 and now 4.  All the best cars I have owned. All reliable and economical...

me too, only I can add Gen 1 Prius as well.  All told, I've driven almost 300,000 miles in all versions of Prius since 2002, and can't think of anything Id rather have at any price.

I did consider a Tesla Model S before this Gen 4 Prius, but even with a £4k Battery upgrade, it would have been a nightmare on some of my longer journeys (until there are more supercharger stations on the East of England).  

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Which? Car Buying Guide is based partly on owner feedback, and reliability is one of several categories reported on. If the owner feedback received highlighted reliability issues, whether significant or otherwise, that is what Which? have reported. It is a car buying guide which highlights to people what may be good vehicles to buy. 

Looking back over previous Which? Car Buying Guides:

a) the 2014/15 Guide placed the 3rd generation Prius 5th in the Large car category and had a higher proportion of breakdowns (3%) than the higher placed cars and this was coupled with a lowish average fault count.

b) the 2015/16 Guide placed the 3rd generation Prius 4th - high score for reliability, but losing out slightly on other categories (eg boot and storage).

c) as the 4th generation was introduced early in 2016, there wouldn't have been enough owner feedback to include within the 2016/17 Guide. However, the guide featured the 3rd generation Prius as the top Used Best Buy.

As I posted earlier, the 4th generation Prius came 36th in the Auto Express Driver Power Survey, so perhaps Which? aren't alone in their owner feedback. 

TOC members may be perfectly happy with their cars, and would have had the opportunity to complete the Which? survey questionnaire (the survey was open to both Which? members and non members). If you didn't take part, it isn't really any use in being upset about how the Prius scored in the latest Guide.

At the end of the day, Which? haven't said the 4th generation Prius is a poor car to buy.