Prius 2016- Which reliability rating

[BhxTrev]

Hi Frosty,

You're certainly one of the most helpful posters on this forum & I've been grateful for your help & support but as far as the Which? report, I think most folks have made up their own minds about what really appears to be a damning report on the Gen4 Prius. I have to say if I'd never owned & driven a Prius previously to my current car & if I'd read this report, I'd have probably bought a different car. As it is in the Midlands, I'm on the road a lot & I certainly don't see many Gen4 Prius cars but I do see a hell of a lot of Gen2&3 models. Just wonder if this Which? report has done far more damage to Prius sales than Toyota realise? 

[FROSTYBALLS]

I doubt that, apart from the odd few, many TOC members have actually seen how much space is devoted to each car reported on within the guide. 

Aside from the star markings (1-5) for ride quality, seat comfort, visibility, boot & storage, performance, and reliability), one paragraph is devoted to each of the top ten cars in each category (eg city cars, small cars, medium cars, etc). Paragraphs summarise the pros and come, and provide the verdict - commonly five or six sentences. Out of the top ten, usually up to 8 of those are identified as Best Buys.

Cars not in the top 10 have a single sentence as a brief summary and their scores listed.

This is the first year the 4th generation Prius has been included in the guide, and the owner feedback is being incorporated into the Which? reviews for all cars they've reviewed - something that has been done for a number of years. The guide has literally only been sent out to Which? members in the past week or so, and any effect on sales to date will have been minimal. As to whether the Which? reliability score has an effect on Prius sales is still to be determined.

Having been a Which? member for just over 42 years, I think there has been an over reaction on the forum to the Which? guide and the owner feedback they've received for the Prius. Conversely if Which? hadn't scored the Prius reliability according to the owner feedback they received, they would be doing their members a diservice.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just for interests sake, Toyota's own UK sales figures for the Toyota Prius are:

2017 January to June inclusive - 2,562 (six months)

2016 - 5,311

2015 - 3.361

2014 - 2,443

2013 - 2,793

2012 - 4,716

[wass]

I don't pay much attention to anything which journo types produce since first and foremost, its what they do for a living. The more spectacular they write, the better the living. Portraying what is historically one of the most reliable vehicles on the planet as being unreliable grabs attention and increases circulation. Remember the great recall publicity attached to mechanics getting electrocuted, owners being driven by their own car? All blown out of proportion by journos. 

Having said that, in order to make up my mind about a car, I find it most useful to talk with parts department managers. If they report that they only bother with routine service spares for model A but need to keep a stock of suspension parts for model B. then its worth a look at model A.

This is how i found at that at one stage BMW model range had issues with brake calipers sticking leading to premature disc and pad wear and dirty alloys. It is also how I found out that Rover 75 estate diesel autos were prone to electrical glitches which were traced to the design of the wiring loom...... nothing to do with the BMW ECU which used to control things but was always blamed for the issues.... mysterious that the same ecu wasnt a problem with other BMW models.

If there is a reliability issue , you will see it here on this forum first. Newspapers are something you read when you have finished watching the paint dry. Surveys are what you read after you've finished the newspapers. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

33 minutes ago, wass said:

Portraying what is historically one of the most reliable vehicles on the planet as being unreliable grabs attention and increases circulation.

The Which Car Buying Guide is distributed to existing Which? members, rather than being on general circulation. Previous editions have been available to purchase in retail outlets for a limited time, but not sure whether that is still the case.

Which? reviews are only available to non-members on line, and then the full versions are only accessible after paying the guest fee of £1.

[wass]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The Which Car Buying Guide is distributed to existing Which? members, rather than being on general circulation. Previous editions have been available to purchase in retail outlets for a limited time, but not sure whether that is still the case.

Which? reviews are only available to non-members on line, and then the full versions are only accessible after paying the guest fee of £1.

Precisely put; so how can they sell more subscriptions? Write something which will sell more subscriptions ,of course.

[FROSTYBALLS]

An annual guide is unlikely to result in large increases in the number of Which? subscribers, especially where, as I described earlier, the amount of space devoted to any one model in the guide, including the Prius, is limited to just one paragraph. 

The fact that the OP decided to focus on the reliability score for the Prius from the Which? Car Buying Guide 2017-18 and has taken it out of context of the guide and the revised review, doesn't mean that Which? themselves see the reduced score as important or as a means of increasing subscribers. For example, there is no mention of this on the Which? website.

If Which? were trying to sell subscriptions on the back of the Prius' weaknesses, they wouldn't include in their review of the Prius extracts like:

"Which? verdict - confidence inspiring hybrid."

"Toyota has nailed its hybrid colours to the mast for decades now, and the Prius remains a decent example of the breed, and a solid choice for anyone keen to minimise their costs and their impact on the environment. The Prius is good in other areas, too, with excellent safety, good driving manners and plenty of space inside for families."

"How safe is it? When tested by Euro NCAP, the Prius scored a five-star safety rating. Very impressive standard features across the range include seven airbags and a 'Safety Sense' package - including pedestrian detection, emergency braking, lane-departure warning, road-sign recognition and adaptive cruise control. We found that the road-sign detection didn't always work. You can fit child seats in the back (using Isofix on the outer two seats if you wish) or on the front seat."

"Should I buy it? If you can maximise the fuel economy potential of the hybrid system (i.e you spend most of your time driving around town), the Prius makes a credible case as a comfortable, safe, large family car."

[albany]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

An annual guide is unlikely to result in large increases in the number of Which? subscribers, especially where, as I described earlier, the amount of space devoted to any one model in the guide, including the Prius, is limited to just one paragraph. 

The fact that the OP decided to focus on the reliability score for the Prius from the Which? Car Buying Guide 2017-18 and has taken it out of context of the guide and the revised review, doesn't mean that Which? themselves see the reduced score as important or as a means of increasing subscribers. For example, there is no mention of this on the Which? website.

If Which? were trying to sell subscriptions on the back of the Prius' weaknesses, they wouldn't include in their review of the Prius extracts like:

"Which? verdict - confidence inspiring hybrid."

"Toyota has nailed its hybrid colours to the mast for decades now, and the Prius remains a decent example of the breed, and a solid choice for anyone keen to minimise their costs and their impact on the environment. The Prius is good in other areas, too, with excellent safety, good driving manners and plenty of space inside for families."

"How safe is it? When tested by Euro NCAP, the Prius scored a five-star safety rating. Very impressive standard features across the range include seven airbags and a 'Safety Sense' package - including pedestrian detection, emergency braking, lane-departure warning, road-sign recognition and adaptive cruise control. We found that the road-sign detection didn't always work. You can fit child seats in the back (using Isofix on the outer two seats if you wish) or on the front seat."

"Should I buy it? If you can maximise the fuel economy potential of the hybrid system (i.e you spend most of your time driving around town), the Prius makes a credible case as a comfortable, safe, large family car."

I focussed on the reliability score because I genuinely thought it must be a mistake. Like you, I've been a Which? member for a long time (45 years, actually) and I have seen countless corrections and apologies for errors in reports.

The only thing in the review that's been revised, as far as I can see, is the score (reduced from 80% to 58%). I don't think that the comment "confidence inspiring hybrid" will remain as the verdict for much longer.

[mickburkesnr]

It's quite funny reading and participating in this thread about Which?. It is a handy thing to have as a guide (like Frosty said) but it's still buyer beware. All Which? does is arm you with the facts about a particular product from what their readership has found. But like I hinted at in my posts, it could very well be that people have bought the car and it's developed a small fault, but because it's Toyota and a new car they may think they shouldn't have any issue at all. This changes your perception about a vehicle.

Not that I'm a member or read many of the reports, but when I was moving in to my new house we needed a vaccuum and Currys were selling a "good" Vax hover which was Which? recommended and cost about £120.

18 months in, well the £30 hoover I bought to suck up all the rubbish and grit while doing the DIY in the home has proven to be a much much better hoover than the Vax. Continually clogging up, various smells etc. Just hasn't been a great hoover. But I'm sure the Which? community found it to be good in their eyes, it's just their standards seem to differ with mine in that respect.

But at the end of the day it's a guide, as much to say "our members think X about Y". It'd be the same as anyone coming to this forum and collectively we tell the world that the Gen 4 Prius is an amazing car. The purchaser can only take that information on board and use it against other information they'll have got from various other places, ranging from the internet through to the mate of the guy in the pub.

[BhxTrev]

Throughout this protracted thread we're kind of being told 'caveat emptor' (buyer beware), by this Which? report, which apparently scores the latest Prius quite low for reliability. Unless I'm missing something, not once has anyone homed in on precise reasons other than some survey results, as to why the Prius is unreliable. Could someone out there that has read the whole report please list the things that Which? deem to be so unreliable with my car? 

[FROSTYBALLS]

As I've already said, within the guide, models get the scores and either one paragraph or one sentence as summaries, depending whether they appear in the top ten or below. This is similar to other surveys such as the Auto Express Driver Power or the What Car JD Power surveys.

As regards the Prius, out of 25 large cars featured in the guide, the Prius came 23rd. What people won't know is whether owners who completed the Which? survey may have suffered numeous niggling faults, had days off the road, or similar.

Presumably Which? will again be inviting non-members to complete the 2018-19 survey, so for those who wish to, the opportunity will exist to possibly redress the balance.

In 2015 I did post on here the link for TOC members to take part in the 2016-@7 surgery, but had little interest. I may post the link for the 2018-19 survey when it becomes available!e if TOC members are interested.

Overall Toyota achieved 12 Best Buys for cars across all classes of cars within the guide - coming behind Mercedes and BMW. Cars were not awarded Best Buys where their NOx were too high - this included the Aygo, non-hybrid Yaris, and Rav4 hybrid.

Toyota Best Buys were:  Yaris hybrid, Auris, Auris hybrid, first generation Auris, second generation Prius, Avensis, Rav4, Verso S, second generation Verso, Auris Touring Sports, and the Mirai.

[Duffryn]

I speak as I find - over the last 30 years between myself and Mrs Duffryn we've owned 11 Toyotas and 2 Honda Civics. All Toyotas were utterly reliable always (one particular faultless Corolla was 22years old when it became redundant and we reluctantly parted with it), while both Hondas were problematic - a one year old Civic requiring a complete boot respray due to rust, for example. 

Journos can write what the hell they like - they'll never ever convince me that any Toyota could ever justify a 58% reliability rating!

I now await my brown envelope from Mr T..

[FROSTYBALLS]

Of the 21 cars we've owned from new ( Nissans, Hondas, Mazdas, Toyotas, and Hyundais), aside from routine servicing, the only other repairs we've needed (which were warranty repairs) were a replacement door switch (Honda), replacement tailgate struts (Corolla), replacement coil pack (Mazda), replacement cup holder (Auris), replacement tailgate struts (Auris), and replacement clutch (Hyundai).

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

 ".......... but when I was moving in to my new house we needed a vaccuum and Currys were selling a "good" Vax hover which was Which? recommended and cost about £120.

18 months in, well the £30 hoover I bought to suck up all the rubbish and grit while doing the DIY in the home has proven to be a much much better hoover than the Vax."

 

From September 2014 the EU, in order to reduce electricity consumption, put limits on how powerful vacuums sold in the EU could be - limiting the power to 1600 watts.  Although motor power isn't directly related too how well vacuums perform, the reduction will have an effect. The limit on vacuums is to be further reduced in September 2017 - to 900 watts.

[mickburkesnr]

2 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

 ".......... but when I was moving in to my new house we needed a vaccuum and Currys were selling a "good" Vax hover which was Which? recommended and cost about £120.

18 months in, well the £30 hoover I bought to suck up all the rubbish and grit while doing the DIY in the home has proven to be a much much better hoover than the Vax."

 

From September 2014 the EU, in order to reduce electricity consumption, put limits on how powerful vacuums sold in the EU could be - limiting the power to 1600 watts.  Although motor power isn't directly related too how well vacuums perform, the reduction will have an effect. The limit on vacuums is to be further reduced in September 2017 - to 900 watts.

Yeah I remember that, but it was more down to the fact the Vax is just completely useless. Poor build quality, poor continued performance. I've replaced the filter a few times on it, washed it etc, and it'll be good for one session and then get clogged back up again.

The other hoover is a bagged one (the Vax is bagless), and the only time it loses suction is when the bag is full.

[birdseye]

  The which report is total  bunkum,   I expect I could fill in a Which questionaire and do a  derisive revue on the new Jaguar even though I don't own one

My  near neighbour works for the RAC attending callouts and often stops to chat,  over the last 3 years he's attended just two Prius, a Gen 4 with the parking brake stuck ( woman could not release it after hubby parked it)  and a 2005 Gen2  with some kind of major electronics failure that had to be towed to a Toyota dealer.  

So much claptrap is written about the Prius, so many derisive remarks such as the Gen4 is the worlds most ugliest car ( if it had a BMW Badge then they would call it the most amazing futuristic car)  ,  the usual bit about how the car is not green at all because the planet was raped to make the batteries  etc. etc.

you have to smile when you realise that everyone will end up driving electric in one form or another in the very near future or face been banned fron city centres

[FROSTYBALLS]

If you had actually read the Which? Car Buying Guide 2017-18 (it isn't a report), you would have seen that the Jaguar entry in the large car class, the XE, came bottom. Their summary of the Jaguar was headed "Why you can't trust a Jaguar.", and went on to describe how 42% of XE-owning respondants had reported faults and 13% had experienced a full breakdown. Petrol and diesel versions were problematical in their own ways. Petrol models had spent more than five days off the road.

It seems this thread has run its course.

[Neutronstar]

Just an update to a previous thread about Which giving the Gen 4 Prius a poor  reliability rating and reducing its test score from 82% to 58%. In this months November magazine ,in a feature on hybrids and electric vehicles they offer an explanation. Apparently the recall for the brake cable clip produced the low reliability score.Not sure this is entirely fair to Toyota. I had the fix carried out but it didn't cause me any issues.I'm happier that as a manufacturer ,Toyota are more ready to issue recalls than other brands.Anyway it certainly doesn't seem as if there is anything to be concerned about. The Which Magazine does add a final qualification " Toyota has a five-star rating for brand reliability".

[FROSTYBALLS]

Merged with the previous topic.

[olddriver]

I read in a report somewhere, can't remember where, that many expensive cars, Astons, jags, etc, have poor reliability because of SAT NAV/Media failures etc but people are prepared to put up with those type of failures.  Anyone had these type of failures?